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Time again for The Truth and Nothing but the Truth - Updated

JAS-SH

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 5, 2020
685
1,168
Update: See Post #20

I've done one of these before. This time I decided to look at the shot dispersion of my new BadRock 6mm ARC rifle.

There are caveats of course. I think the rifle is incredibly accurate in the right hands. In my hands, well, lets just say I have work to do as you will see below.

I wanted to use At Target for the stats but I could not get a response from them so I had to improvise. I basically reversed engineered the graphics using Photoshop and used excel to do the calculations. Then I was able to combine the groups into Ballistic-X where I was then able to make measurements. It wasn't easy and I don't plan to do this very often! The results are very interesting to me. They showed me something I kind of suspected - I might need more attention to my rear bag and grip hand management.

So, here we go... I shot 11 targets in mostly 3-shot groups, with 2 of them 4-shots and 1 with only 2-shots. Total shot count of 34-shots. All shot in one session, from the bench, but using a bipod and a Precision Underground rear bag. No fancy Benchrest setup. Not even a fancy bunny ear rear bag.

This was the target I used. I print them myself. It has a red .1mil center and a .3 mil diamond which equates to 1.08 inches side to side.

i-2KdK9Cr-XL.jpg


The first group top left was the cold bore group. It told me I still had to adjust my new Razor scope so I did in the second group. I counted those cold bore shots in the dispersion test. Shown below.

i-XpLwbNR-M.jpg


I then shot the rest of the groups. Below are the stats. First is the Max Spread from Ballistic-X. 34-shots went 1.241 MOA.

i-pv5F8kj-M.jpg


I then used Ballistic-X to gather individual shot info. I had to find the center of the group so I could do a mean radius. I plugged all that into a spreadsheet. Below is the calculated Group center. The mean radius of all shots to Group center was calculated from this - .352 Inches.

i-dfTJRpk-M.jpg


Then I calculated the percentage of shots inside 1 MOA, shown in the transparent blue circle below. 75% of the shots were 1 MOA or less.

i-Kw7MPNL-M.jpg


And the last image, which is really important to me, shows that dispersion was not random. In fact, there are two tightly packed sub-groups (red ellipses) in the whole mess. This tells me that it's not only about the rifle and ammo - IT includes ME!

i-nv2MjZq-M.jpg
 
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what model PU rear bag are you using? I just got my badrock in 6.5 as well, and upgraded to a precision underground ELR Pro (figured the rifle deserved a better bag)

Looking forward to trying it out, but Im willing to bet that most guys test with 3-5 shot groups and you're going above and beyond the normal "sub moa" bragging rights that we share online.
 
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With a lead sled or a different shooter entirely?
I have not used the sled personally. Others may know how reliable/consistent it is, and how to use it optimally. Maybe it is superior to a different shooter, depending on their skill.
 
This is a very cool thread! I’m not sure what programs other than Ballistic-X you used but it’s very interesting!
 
I have not used the sled personally. Others may know how reliable/consistent it is, and how to use it optimally. Maybe it is superior to a different shooter, depending on their skill.
Ive got one in the garage. Not sure that it was worth the purchase honestly.

Im sure it removes "shoulder purchase" and recoil hop from the equation, or rear bag handling, but it made no sense to me, because I want to repeatability as a shooter, not repeatability out of a vice.

I dont care as much about the results a mechanical device can produce out of it, if I cant replicate them as the owner.
 
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what model PU rear bag are you using? I just got my badrock in 6.5 as well, and upgraded to a precision underground ELR Pro (figured the rifle deserved a better bag)

Looking forward to trying it out, but Im willing to bet that most guys test with 3-5 shot groups and you're going above and beyond the normal "sub moa" bragging rights that we share online.
I have a couple but I use the EL-RX about 95% of the time. I like it a lot. I think one the problems I am having is not the bag per se, but recent changes I made on my setup.

I used to set up with the top of the bag touching my chest, which made it stable and square with the stock. Then recently I moved it forward, away from my chest.

I think that now when I set up I am twisting the top of the bag with my grip, while the bottom of the bag stays perpendicular to the stock, as it should. Then the bag is untwisting under recoil, making my shots go right of the POA. I will be checking that issue specifically tomorrow at the range.

Just saw your post on your new rifle. Congrats!!
 
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Interesting.
How do you plan to learn how to properly shoot with a bag?
I started by becoming a paying member here to check out the online course videos. Beyond that I will be taking a long range class to improve my prone shooting, and getting around more experienced shooters as well.

Part of that was upgrading to something better than the cheap $20 caldwell bunny ear bag I had.
 
I started by becoming a paying member here to check out the online course videos. Beyond that I will be taking a long range class to improve my prone shooting, and getting around more experienced shooters as well.

Part of that was upgrading to something better than the cheap $20 caldwell bunny ear bag I had.
Good for you! Wish you the best getting to where you want to be. And yes, I have one of them Caldwells in some drawer in the garage...

One thing I've learned over my 50-years of shooting is this: Don't over think it behind the rifle. Being an analyst by profession I am guilty as charged.

I do have these times where my mind will kind of float into what I candidly refer to as a "Zen" moment when my mind disconnects, the shot goes off and it lands in the middle of the bullseye. Happens once or twice per shooting session. For the life of me I have never been able to figure that out. I've tried but with a moment where you are not conciously driving the shot how do you do that??? with my mind constantly cluttered with tech crap I'm not able to get there.

Contrary to me, I have an older shooting range friend that shoots benchrest - 6BR. I watch him shoot, and he just sits there SOOO calmly behind the rifle - like forever, like he is not even there, somewhere in his own different universe.... Zen. Last week testing new loads he put 4-shots in the SAME EXACT HOLE. It blew me away. We both walked to the target to see that.

So, some people can get there, some of us maybe cannot. I could do it when much younger, no fear of failure and a million other things since then. Bottom line, I've gotten too cerebral.

I guess this is why later in life I excelled in shotgun sports - no tme to think. At the top of that game is all instinct and zero thought.
 
Good for you! Wish you the best getting to where you want to be. And yes, I have one of them Caldwells in some drawer in the garage...

One thing I've learned over my 50-years of shooting is this: Don't over think it behind the rifle. Being an analyst by profession I am guilty as charged.

I do have these times where my mind will kind of float into what I candidly refer to as a "Zen" moment when my mind disconnects, the shot goes off and it lands in the middle of the bullseye. Happens once or twice per shooting session. For the life of me I have never been able to figure that out. I've tried but with a moment where you are not conciously driving the shot how do you do that??? with my mind constantly cluttered with tech crap I'm not able to get there.

Contrary to me, I have an older shooting range friend that shoots benchrest - 6BR. I watch him shoot, and he just sits there SOOO calmly behind the rifle - like forever, like he is not even there, somewhere in his own different universe.... Zen. Last week testing new loads he put 4-shots in the SAME EXACT HOLE. It blew me away. We both walked to the target to see that.

So, some people can get there, some of us maybe cannot. I could do it when much younger, no fear of failure and a million other things since then. Bottom line, I've gotten too cerebral.

I guess this is why later in life I excelled in shotgun sports - no tme to think. At the top of that game is all instinct and zero thought.
You’ve just described me to a tee..I’m also an analyst in my day job (although dealing with strategy a lot more lately).

My bipod shopping experience was a case study in neurotic over-thinking.
 
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So what bipod do you use? :D
Atlas Cal. Tell you the truth I haven't seen one yet that breaks the mold into a breakthrough bipod. Every single one of them have too few leg clicks positions. The Atlas is the same as the rest. About 3~4 feet per click at 100 yards. Way too much...

I'm also a photographer that has been using carbon fiber tripods for 20-years. Those have carbon legs and infinite adjustment legs. Do that on a bipod and put adjustment marks on the legs and I'll buy it yesterday!
 
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Atlas Cal. Tell you the truth I haven't seen one yet that breaks the mold into a breakthrough bipod. Every single one of them have to few leg clicks positions. The Atlas is the same as the rest. About 3~4 feet per click at 100 yards. Way too much...

I'm also a photographer that has been using carbon fiber tripods for 20-years. Those have carbon legs and infinite adjustment legs. Do that on a bipod and put adjustment marks on the legs and I'll buy it yesterday!
Funny you say that, my buddy was asking me about bipods and I told him I bet that theres CF photography stuff that is more for your money than a lot of whats in the shooting market as a "shooting bipod".

I dont do photography but my business was building photo booths and renting them, so Ive got some minor experience with the photography field as well.

Atlas PSR was my favorite up until trying the accu-tac recently. If you truly over-analyze, the amount of "over-built" built into its FC bipods, is really interesting.
 
Post Update: I went to the range this morning to test theories about my recent problems behind the rifle. I mentioned them below and I quote:

"I might need more attention to my rear bag and grip hand management."

and:

"I think one the problems I am having is not the bag per se, but recent changes I made on my setup.I used to set up with the top of the bag touching my chest, which made it stable and square with the stock. Then recently I moved it forward, away from my chest. I think that now when I set up I am twisting the top of the bag with my grip, while the bottom of the bag stays perpendicular to the stock, as it should. Then the bag is untwisting under recoil, making my shots go right of the POA. I will be checking that issue specifically tomorrow at the range."

Well, I'm happy to report that it worked! I did three thing's

1) Increased the back-pressure against my shoulder with my firing hand grip - I had relaxed that lately. This steadied the rifle.
2) I moved the rear bag back to where I had it before, basically the top of the bag touching my chest. This steadied the bag and prevented twisting.
3) I raised the bipod 1-click (previously only 1 click extended) - This allowed me to be more comfortable, with a more relaxed upper body. It also allowed me to use the bag in a near vertical position which provided more stability and less tendency to twisting the bag.

The results are very good! I used my .22 Mag trainer for this at 100 yards. It's a shooter but not as accurate as the BadRock. Some of the results are below.

I used a target I printed that has two 3 MOA "sighter" targets and 16 1-MOA targets. For checking my zero I shot ten shots. I'm reading a lot about statistics and a 10 shot group is recommended for sighting in a rifle. That can be proven statistically and makes perfect sense to me.

Here's my results. The cold bore shot is the single outlier on the left. The group on the right is 9-shots. This was followed by a .1 mil windage adjustment. Unfortunately that moved the POI a little too far left but it proved that I was right about my setup adjustments.


i-m2Bhcbz-M.jpg



And this was my last 5-shot group of the day:

i-mxsj5pc-M.jpg



Not bad at all!! I'm very happy that I am headed in the right direction. Will go out again on Friday to apply what I learned today to the BadRock.
 
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pretty damn good for 22
Thanks! It's not a regular 22. mag anymore - hasn't been for a while. I posted a pic of it below. You will notice a striking resemblance to my BadRock. That's not by accident :). Purely a purpose built trainer.

I also went out in a on Friday morning to apply what I learned to the Badrock. I was pressed for time - only had an hour and could only shoot 8 groups. below are my best group (3-shots), and my worst (5-shots). the 5-shot one was the last group and I was really pressed for time then. It's all good though. I'm making progress and the groups also have accuracy.

Trainer:
i-btQwx9G-X5.jpg


BadRock 3-shot Group:
i-krTkjp3-M.jpg


BadRock 5-shot Group:
i-GTxXgtS-M.jpg
 
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