Gunsmithing Timney installed = tough bolt lift

[justinbaker]

just installed a timney on my factory 700

after pulling the trigger, the bolt is very tough to lift

i have not adjusted the trigger at all.

any ideas?

 

[Rprecision]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

Only thing that comes to mind is the front action screw has been tightened more then it was and is rubbing the bolt.

Otherwise, the trigger does nothing more then catch the sear and has nothing to do with cocking. That is unless someting is bound up?

Is it only after the trigger is pulled ? or any time the bolt is lifted

 

[justinbaker]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rprecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Only thing that comes to mind is the front action screw has been tightened more then it was and is rubbing the bolt.

Otherwise, the trigger does nothing more then catch the sear and has nothing to do with cocking. That is unless someting is bound up?

Is it only after the trigger is pulled ? or any time the bolt is lifted </div></div>


its not the front action screw as is doing the same thing out of the stock


and yes its only after the trigger is pulled.

 

[TGagnon]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

Is your caming surfaces greased properly? I would double check by reinstalling the original trigger just to make sure that something didn't get altered on the receiver by accident say a bur or something during the timney install. If it does the same thing after reinstalling the old trigger than that shows it to be the receiver and not the trigger. If it turns out to reallly be the trigger than I would call timney about it as maybe they have had this happen before? Also when reinstalling old trigger cycle the bolt to see how difficult it is without any trigger. Good luck

 

[justinbaker]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TGagnon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is your caming surfaces greased properly? I would double check by reinstalling the original trigger just to make sure that something didn't get altered on the receiver by accident say a bur or something during the timney install. If it does the same thing after reinstalling the old trigger than that shows it to be the receiver and not the trigger. If it turns out to reallly be the trigger than I would call timney about it as maybe they have had this happen before? Also when reinstalling old trigger cycle the bolt to see how difficult it is without any trigger. Good luck </div></div>



just reinstalled the xmark, and it was back to normal. no hard bolt lift, and it cycled fine

 

[justinbaker]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

so i found a thread on calguns where the guy had the same problem.

some suggested the trigger pin holes were too high causing the the sear to bind the bolt

but the OP never said if he fixed it or not

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=523364

 

[fw707]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

Pull the bolt and check if the sear sticks up high enough to put pressure on the bolt.
I tried to use a Timney on my last rifle and the sear rubbed the bolt so bad I switched to a different trigger.

 

[justinbaker]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

so i think i got it figured out.

i had to play with the tab on the trigger where it catches the bolt release lever

the bolt release functioned fine and looked to be in the right place before. but i just played with it a little more, and it seems as is well.

thanks guys!

 

[2156SMK]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: justinbaker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so i found a thread on calguns where the guy had the same problem.

some suggested the trigger pin holes were too high causing the the sear to bind the bolt

but the OP never said if he fixed it or not

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=523364

</div></div>

I have run into this and fixed the problem by grinding a slight relief down the middle of the sear to let the bolt slide freely.
The high sear did not cause hard bolt lift though.
It caused hard front-back and back-front motion of the bolt body.

 

[Pointblanktx]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2156SMK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: justinbaker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so i found a thread on calguns where the guy had the same problem.

some suggested the trigger pin holes were too high causing the the sear to bind the bolt

but the OP never said if he fixed it or not

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=523364

</div></div>

I have run into this and fixed the problem by grinding a slight relief down the middle of the sear to let the bolt slide freely.
The high sear did not cause hard bolt lift though.
It caused hard front-back and back-front motion of the bolt body.
</div></div>

I too am having this issue with my timney with the sear rubbing on the bolt. Is filing it a little gonna alter the pull, or release at all and make the trigger unsafe?

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

Pointblank, don't try filing on the sear. I like Randalls idea and have considered it before, but I don't have a precision grinder to make it look good.

OP, glad its working fine now.

There are two different problems I find with Timney. The sear rubbing hard on the bolt body hindering bolt throw, and hard lift after firing.

Timney sears push up hard. Thats how they are. Rather than altering the trigger Id buy one with a weaker sear bar spring if its not to your liking.
Try a Shilen... they're pretty weak. Can be a good thing, can be a PITA with another.

Bolt lift with Timneys can be hard or impossible in Surgeon actions. <span style="text-decoration: underline">I believe its due to a "shelf" that exists on the inside of the trigger housing sidewalls. It allows the cocking piece to rotate more when the bolt is lifted(than with any other trigger Ive seen).</span>
I don't know if this is what is hindering your bolt lift but its what I've encountered before with Surgeons.
A tech at Surgeon said he suggested not using Timney triggers with Surgeon actions. Use Jewel or Remington(or shilen). I know yours is a 700, throwin it out there.


If you have the tools/parts, try another cocking piece. I've found that to help for some reason. Also try taking it apart, cleaning/greasing everything again, and rotate the firing pin 180 degrees before putting it back together. For good luck

I've experienced hard bolt lift before, and changed out a cocking piece or shroud and had it make a huge difference. Cant always explain why. Just seen some weird chit already.

 

[Pointblanktx]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keith Johns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pointblank, don't try filing on the sear. I like Randalls idea and have considered it before, but I don't have a precision grinder to make it look good.

OP, glad its working fine now.

There are two different problems I find with Timney. The sear rubbing hard on the bolt body hindering bolt throw, and hard lift after firing.

Timney sears push up hard. Thats how they are. Rather than altering the trigger Id buy one with a weaker sear bar spring if its not to your liking.
Try a Shilen... they're pretty weak. Can be a good thing, can be a PITA with another.

</div></div>

What about jewells? Are they known to have stiff sear springs? Whats odd, is that I have the same trigger on a LTR and it works great! Put it on the AAC and it lifts the bolt...bummer. Well, guess i'll put the xmark back in for now.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

Im not sure how stiff Jewels spring is. Have never had any trouble from a Jewel though.

 

[Fate0n3]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

I hate to bump a semi old thread but I recently also installed a Timney 510 into an SPS Tac and had the same issues. I just wanted to get clarification that all the Timney 510 do this? I am surprised if they do more is not heard about this. Also wanted to see if anyone has found any kind of slight fix. I am going to try and take apart the bolt soon and rotate the firing pin as suggested. Thanks everyone

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

The problem doesn't seem to be as noticeable in every rifle. I think trigger pin hole location(on the action) might have something to do with that.

I've put quite a few together with Timneys that felt great. And we've had a few that rubbed on the bolt pertty good.

 

[2156SMK]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keith Johns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have a precision grinder to make it look good.</div></div>

A surface grinder makes quick work of stuff like this.
Real nice when doing trigger jobs on most handguns too...

 

[turbo54]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

I recently installed a 510 on a badger M2008 and had a myriad of troubles.

Ultimately, I had to:

1. Grind .020" off the top surface of the sear. I did not alter its angle
2. Grind a notch on the bottom side of the sear, to allow the sear to swing down further before hitting the limiter pin.
3. Replace the sear spring with a new spring that didn't coil-bind as quick, to again, allow the sear to swing down further.

In addition, it is common for the cocking piece to drag on the insides of the trigger housing plates, so in some cases, the plates either need grinding/relieving or the cocking piece needs to be narrowed a little.

Timney makes a quality trigger, it's a bummer they don't seem to truly be a "drop in".

 

[2156SMK]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I recently installed a 510 on a badger M2008 and had a myriad of troubles.

Ultimately, I had to:

1. Grind .020" off the top surface of the sear. I did not alter its angle
2. Grind a notch on the bottom side of the sear, to allow the sear to swing down further before hitting the limiter pin.
3. Replace the sear spring with a new spring that didn't coil-bind as quick, to again, allow the sear to swing down further.

In addition, it is common for the cocking piece to drag on the insides of the trigger housing plates, so in some cases, the plates either need grinding/relieving or the cocking piece needs to be narrowed a little.

Timney makes a quality trigger, it's a bummer they don't seem to truly be a "drop in". </div></div>

With all of that work, it sounds like modifying the cocking piece would have been the better path.
That would have given you clearances in both areas by only modifying one piece.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2156SMK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keith Johns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have a precision grinder to make it look good.</div></div>

A surface grinder makes quick work of stuff like this.
Real nice when doing trigger jobs on most handguns too...
</div></div>

Oh we def want one. Lots of uses. No room or money for one though.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 2156SMK</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I recently installed a 510 on a badger M2008 and had a myriad of troubles.

Ultimately, I had to:

1. Grind .020" off the top surface of the sear. I did not alter its angle
2. Grind a notch on the bottom side of the sear, to allow the sear to swing down further before hitting the limiter pin.
3. Replace the sear spring with a new spring that didn't coil-bind as quick, to again, allow the sear to swing down further.

In addition, it is common for the cocking piece to drag on the insides of the trigger housing plates, so in some cases, the plates either need grinding/relieving or the cocking piece needs to be narrowed a little.

Timney makes a quality trigger, it's a bummer they don't seem to truly be a "drop in". </div></div>

With all of that work, it sounds like modifying the cocking piece would have been the better path.
That would have given you clearances in both areas by only modifying one piece. </div></div>

Definitely. However, the rifle is a Snipers Hide "Valkyrie" built by GAP, and I didn't want to modify it at all.

 

[2156SMK]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keith Johns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh we def want one. Lots of uses. No room or money for one though. </div></div>

I don't know what the used machine tool market is like in PHX, but I paid $400 for mine (used of course) on ebay 7 or 8 years ago.
I have a whole lot more than that into tooling for it though...

 

[2156SMK]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">However, the rifle is a Snipers Hide "Valkyrie" built by GAP, and I didn't want to modify it at all. </div></div>

I hear ya there.
When you pay all that money for a "brand name" gun, I would let the builder solve all the problems...

 

[Fate0n3]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

Thanks guys for the response. I am really shocked and wish I would have read this thread before purchasing a Timney. Is there nothing that can be done or anything to check to help with this issue? I am very surprised after a little bit searching this seems to pop up quite a bit which is surprising how many people use these triggers. I think if I can find timney number I am going to call and see if there is anything they can recommend or anything they can do.

 

[justinbaker]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

have you played with the tab on the trigger where it catches the bolt release lever

i swore i had mine in the correct spot in the beginning, but i guess it needed just a little more bend, and now its good to go.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

$400?? I thought they were like $2000 used.
I'll check craigslist and backpages periodically.

 

[Timney Triggers]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

Hello Justin,
My name is Kevin and I am the Technical Expert at Timney Triggers. I read your post and wanted to take a second to respond. There are two easy fixes for your issue.

The easiest is to lubricate the bolt shroud and the second is to cut a single coil off the sear spring. Done together the problem is usually eliminated entirely.

If you have any questions please give us a call at 602-274-2999.

 

[-Claybuster-]

Re: Timney installed = tough bolt lift

Coincidence on the post time? 510

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Timney Triggers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hello Justin,
My name is Kevin and I am the Technical Expert at Timney Triggers. I read your post and wanted to take a second to respond. There are two easy fixes for your issue.

The easiest is to lubricate the bolt shroud and the second is to cut a single coil off the sear spring. Done together the problem is usually eliminated entirely.

If you have any questions please give us a call at 602-274-2999. </div></div>

 

[Wazzu]

Hello Justin,
My name is Kevin and I am the Technical Expert at Timney Triggers. I read your post and wanted to take a second to respond. There are two easy fixes for your issue.

The easiest is to lubricate the bolt shroud and the second is to cut a single coil off the sear spring. Done together the problem is usually eliminated entirely.

If you have any questions please give us a call at 602-274-2999.

I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to share my experience in case it can help someone. Last night I pulled a Timney, model 510 from a relatively new Remingotn 700 SA and put it in a Rem LA manufactured in 1994. Not sure if year of manufacture matters, just included for completeness. I ordered the trigger from Timney set at 1.5 lbs and had it installed by a competent gunsmith who confirmed the pull weight.

When I installed the Timney in the LA, I could barely pull the bolt open. It was so difficult to open, I was concerned about damaging the firearm. I rechecked everything, including reinstalling the trigger. I then switched back to the original factory trigger to see if the bolt was still difficult (understatement) to open. The factory trigger allowed the bolt to open just like it should. This pretty much confirmed, in my mind, the problem was with the trigger.

So, as I usually do when I encounter a gun problem I can't figure out, I came on this forum and found this post by Kevin from Timney Triggers. As the shroud was properly lubricated, I decided to cut one coil from the sear spring as he suggested.

Cutting the spring worked. The bolt can now be opened with normal pressure and the trigger seems to function fine. However, the pull weight doubled to a little over 3 lbs. I tried to lower it by adjusting the proper screw as indicated on Timney's website, but was unable to get it under about 3 lbs. 3 oz. Under this pull weight caused the firing pin to fall when the bolt is closed. It is Sunday, so Timney customer service is closed, but I plan to call them this week and discuss if the pull weight can be lowered. Even at 3 lbs, it breaks very nicely. Super Clean!

Anyways, this is what worked for me. Hope it helps!