To load or not to load

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

So, let's talk about loading for PRS. I'm a very busy guy with a demanding job and a 4 year old at home that wants to spend time with her daddy. I load ammo for a dozen cartridges, but it's always been the thing I find the most difficult for PRS. I just don't have the time. I was staring at this decision again today with the gap grind in 2 weeks I need 200 for the match+ zero, true data, practice, etc. I think (and I haven't timed this), I've got to be around 2 hours per hundred rounds by the time I do brass prep and loading and all of it. So, I bought 500 rounds of sierra 107gr factory delivered to my door for $575. I figure to load my 6 creed, I'm at about $1.00 per round in components. So, if I load it myself, I'm working for 10 hours for $75. That just won't work. I have done this both ways, and when I miss targets at a PRS match, it isn't because my factory ammo is shooting .75 and my handloads are .35, it's because I fucked something up in either my fundamentals or in dialing or calculations, or one of another 100 reasons. It's not the ammo. What say you hide folks, loading vs buying for PRS? Keep in mind, I'm not knocking anyone off of any podiums. Middle of the pack is a good day for me. I don't have the time to practice enough to be good at this, but I enjoy it.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I'd also like to ask if anyone has any experience with the brass used by sierra for factory loaded ammo. Olin manufacturers the brass, and I've never heard of them..

 

[308pirate]

Olin manufacturers the brass, and I've never heard of them..

Olin Corporation has owned both Winchester Ammunition and the Winchester trademark for almost (maybe more) than a century.

In fact, FN and Hogdon license the Winchester name from Olin for its respective branded products.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Olin Corporation has owned both Winchester Ammunition and the Winchester trademark for almost (maybe more) than a century.

In fact, FN and Hogdon license the Winchester name from Olin for its respective branded products.

I've played with some winchester brass for .223 and .300 blackout. I thought it was retty good stuff.

 

[308pirate]

I've played with some winchester brass for .223 and .300 blackout. I thought it was retty good stuff.

It's really nice brass. You gotta pay Lapua prices to get significantly better.

 

[gDP]

I'd spend 10 hours for 75 more rounds just because I am poor (a college student) and want more practice. I know I am not a top 10 shooter at 2-day matches, but my goal is to be there in 2 years. I think 175 rounds per month will help me get there a lot more than 100 rounds per month. If you are already having trouble getting to the range though reloading might not be the optimal option to improve

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

There is a middle ground here too fellas. You can send your brass to @Dave__th3__ss and let him do the brass prep for .25. Send him a sized case to copy and he will do it all, aneal it, and trim to your specified length. Then just loaf. It's a ton faster and easier when you have 400 cases sitting there ready. Just some food for thought.

 

[nn8734]

The main reason I reload is wanting total control over the production process and ammunition supply chain, eliminating dependencies on factories and the cyclicial (and somewhat volatile) nature of that supply chain.

Bought (invested) in enough reloading supplies when prices were "low" and quantities were plentiful.

I keep some factory stuff around for reference and TE...

 

[Eric32]

Seem like your already reloading for too many calibers. I would cut down to 2 or 3 main calibers and get rid of the rest doesn't make sense when you don't have time.

I have cut down to 223rem and 6 creed, anything else I am buying factory ammo. Just doesn't make sense to be reloading for a rifle you don't shoot much.

Or get to a point that your getting the tools to load volume.

Dillon press
Girard trimmer & case annealer it's better for quick volume loading.
And
do or don't clean your cases I honeslty don't think it's much a difference.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Seem like your already reloading for too many calibers. I would cut down to 2 or 3 main calibers and get rid of the rest doesn't make sense when you don't have time.

I have cut down to 223rem and 6 creed, anything else I am buying factory ammo. Just doesn't make sense to be reloading for a rifle you don't shoot much.

Or get to a point that your getting the tools to load volume.

Dillon press
Girard trimmer & case annealer it's better for quick volume loading.
And
do or don't clean your cases I honeslty don't think it's much a difference.

I've always cleaned everything, but I'm almost always suppressed, so i think I need to???? That stuff gets pretty dirty.

 

[Haney]

I load because I can make ammo for My guns that is more accurate for any given gun than factory would be . I have factory stockpiled and use that occasionally for testing/reference . I am retired and have all the time in the world . If time was a factor I would just shoot factory and live with the results ,with some of todays factory ammo you can do just fine .

 

[Eric32]

I've always cleaned everything, but I'm almost always suppressed, so i think I need to???? That stuff gets pretty dirty.

Just give it a try, I rather replace a worn die (still have yet to do that) than add 2 or 3 hours to the process.

I originally got the idea from Scott Satterlee from his load development method.

 

[sachsmart]

There is a middle ground here too fellas. You can send your brass to @Dave__th3__ss and let him do the brass prep for .25. Send him a sized case to copy and he will do it all, aneal it, and trim to your specified length. Then just loaf. It's a ton faster and easier when you have 400 cases sitting there ready. Just some food for thought.

This is the Way. Dave does my Brass prep & that significantly saves my time (which I don’t have) in the reloading room

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

This is the Way. Dave does my Brass prep & that significantly saves my time (which I don’t have) in the reloading room

Yeah he's done thousands for me. It's sooooo much better that way. It's actually fun kinda if you don't have to do all the sizing crap, and you're helping a vet get some side money to boot. What's not to like? I do my own also but I'm a very very busy guy. I coach 2 little league teams and have a 7 year old and a 2-1/2 year old. I own and operate my own business. Sometimes the only way I'm going to load is if he does the brass and it's sitting there when I have a few hours I can spend. Biden is rapidly "helping me out" with the problem of being so super busy with work, but there are still a lot of times where I just wouldn't be able to do it all. With the brass sitting there, I can prime em, fire up the IP , and I'm loading. He's does excellent with the sizing and my SD/ES is very good.

 

[The4GunGuy]

So, let's talk about loading for PRS. I'm a very busy guy with a demanding job and a 4 year old at home that wants to spend time with her daddy. I load ammo for a dozen cartridges, but it's always been the thing I find the most difficult for PRS. I just don't have the time. I was staring at this decision again today with the gap grind in 2 weeks I need 200 for the match+ zero, true data, practice, etc. I think (and I haven't timed this), I've got to be around 2 hours per hundred rounds by the time I do brass prep and loading and all of it. So, I bought 500 rounds of sierra 107gr factory delivered to my door for $575. I figure to load my 6 creed, I'm at about $1.00 per round in components. So, if I load it myself, I'm working for 10 hours for $75. That just won't work. I have done this both ways, and when I miss targets at a PRS match, it isn't because my factory ammo is shooting .75 and my handloads are .35, it's because I fucked something up in either my fundamentals or in dialing or calculations, or one of another 100 reasons. It's not the ammo. What say you hide folks, loading vs buying for PRS? Keep in mind, I'm not knocking anyone off of any podiums. Middle of the pack is a good day for me. I don't have the time to practice enough to be good at this, but I enjoy it.

I've done two videos on this topic, the first is a comparison of my 6.5 CM hand loads versus other OTS options (a while ago, but you'll see the difference) and the other was a video on TRUE reloading options from Low to High end reloading setups (I know you already have your setup, but there may be some newbies here who are thinking of getting into reloading so I included it). My 0.02 is that if you're shooting a match where say 20% of the targets are 800 yds and beyond, then your chances of impacts with factory ammo versus a well trued hand load will be less. But, for the 80% of targets inside of 800 yds, you should be OK with OTS ammo. I did a quick and dirty comparison based on my video and an ES difference of 34 FPS...Included the chart below. THIS IS NOT MEANT AS A DEFINITIVE ANALYSIS, just something to think about:

 

[sachsmart]

I've done two videos on this topic, the first is a comparison of my 6.5 CM hand loads versus other OTS options (a while ago, but you'll see the difference) and the other was a video on TRUE reloading options from Low to High end reloading setups (I know you already have your setup, but there may be some newbies here who are thinking of getting into reloading so I included it). My 0.02 is that if you're shooting a match where say 20% of the targets are 800 yds and beyond, then your chances of impacts with factory ammo versus a well trued hand load will be less. But, for the 80% of targets inside of 800 yds, you should be OK with OTS ammo. I did a quick and dirty comparison based on my video and an ES difference of 34 FPS...Included the chart below. THIS IS NOT MEANT AS A DEFINITIVE ANALYSIS, just something to think about:

View attachment 8229306

This is awesome. Thank you, I will look for your video too

 

[The4GunGuy]

This is awesome. Thank you, I will look for your video too

 

[Dave__th3__ss]

Thanks for the mention guys! I really appreciate it. For yall that are looking for work to be done I can do as much or as little as you need/want.
If any of you have questions please feel free to reach out to me.

Ammo - Brass prep!! sizing, annealing, swagging, chamfer, deburr i do it all...

Mods please delete if not allowed. Im a disabled vet /stay at home dad with time on my hands. I can de prime, swag , clean , deburr and uniform all primer pockets on everything. Everything will be tumbled in stainless steel media .unless you want it cleaned in dry media pricing will be based...

www.snipershide.com

 

[kthomas]

For some people, it will make more sense to purchase factory ammo. There's a lot of good factory options in most popular cartridges, so performance, especially for something like PRS, is a non-issue.

I'm already setup for reloading, and do enjoy it (sometimes more than others). I like that I have control over my own ammo - but I know that when I shoot a PRS match, whether I reload or not has no real bearing on my performance.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

For some people, it will make more sense to purchase factory ammo. There's a lot of good factory options in most popular cartridges, so performance, especially for something like PRS, is a non-issue.

I'm already setup for reloading, and do enjoy it (sometimes more than others). I like that I have control over my own ammo - but I know that when I shoot a PRS match, whether I reload or not has no real bearing on my performance

That's where I am. I can buy factory match ammo that will reliably shoot .75, and if I shot .75 all day, I'd never miss a target. I could handload and maybe get to .2, but I doubt seriously that difference will cause me to hit a single additional target. I don't miss due of the difference in .75 and .2, (I know some people are that good), I miss because I forgot to dial between movements, or jerk a shot, or my position isn't that great, or I just suck sometimes. If my rifle shot literal one hole groups, I'd probably not hit any additional targets.

 

[Huskydriver]

I do everything on a Dillon for for 6 chamberings

It's the fastest you are going to get and the biggest bottleneck is powder throwing which is 10 seconds a pop.

I can usually load 200 rounds start to finish in an hour fifteen with no tumbling in between prepping and loading. Add your tumbletime in between to get an idea of your total time

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I do everything on a Dillon for for 6 chamberings

It's the fastest you are going to get and the biggest bottleneck is powder throwing which is 10 seconds a pop.

I can usually load 200 rounds start to finish in an hour fifteen with no tumbling in between prepping and loading. Add your tumbletime in between to get an idea of your total time

That's fast, but what does that look like by the time you work through brass prep?

 

[Huskydriver]

That's fast, but what does that look like by the time you work through brass prep?

That's including the brass prep homie....

 

[moonstalanda]

So, let's talk about loading for PRS. I'm a very busy guy with a demanding job and a 4 year old at home that wants to spend time with her daddy. I load ammo for a dozen cartridges, but it's always been the thing I find the most difficult for PRS. I just don't have the time. I was staring at this decision again today with the gap grind in 2 weeks I need 200 for the match+ zero, true data, practice, etc. I think (and I haven't timed this), I've got to be around 2 hours per hundred rounds by the time I do brass prep and loading and all of it. So, I bought 500 rounds of sierra 107gr factory delivered to my door for $575. I figure to load my 6 creed, I'm at about $1.00 per round in components. So, if I load it myself, I'm working for 10 hours for $75. That just won't work. I have done this both ways, and when I miss targets at a PRS match, it isn't because my factory ammo is shooting .75 and my handloads are .35, it's because I fucked something up in either my fundamentals or in dialing or calculations, or one of another 100 reasons. It's not the ammo. What say you hide folks, loading vs buying for PRS? Keep in mind, I'm not knocking anyone off of any podiums. Middle of the pack is a good day for me. I don't have the time to practice enough to be good at this, but I enjoy it.

I reload after bedtime when wifey wants to watch Marvelous Maisel. Find it very quiet and peaceful and she doesn't have to listen to me bitch about how lame the show is

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

That's including the brass prep homie....

I probably need better equipment.

 

[Huskydriver]

I probably need better equipment.

Dillon 650/750, Girard trimmer, amp annealer

I don't clean primer pockets.

Anneal if desired
Pass one on the Dillon decap, size ,expand.... 200 rounds is less than 10 min

Onto the Girard for final chamfur...20min or so for 200 rounds

Delube in corncob if desired 30 min

Pass two on the Dillon, prime, powder seat bullet.... 10-15 seconds a round depending how fast your thrower is I use a v3 with an ip trickle and with 4350 I can get an ave throw time below 10 seconds.

 

[Dave__th3__ss]

I probably need better equipment.

I do all my brass prep with a single stage rcbs.
No need to have fancy equipment if you have time to do the work.

Don’t get me wrong I’d like to upgrade to something fancy but just can’t justify the cost.
And I prep a lot of brass not only for myself but a lot of others too.

I’d wager I’ve prepped close to 5k-6k rounds or more in the last 2 months or so.

 

[CK1.0]

For your situation, just buy it… but when you do, realize that there are better ways of doing it: find something you like and then buy as much from the same lot as you can afford. Save up before you buy if need be.

Guys who buy factory stuff by the box, or even by the case, are at a disadvantage to the guys who are their own ammo factory… but when you buy in bulk from the same lot, you can get it figured out and dialed in because you’re shooting the same shit long enough to do it, and then that disadvantage shrinks considerably.

Sometimes guys forget when talking about “nodes” and other nonsense, “good loads” versus “bad loads”, etc, that what is really important is consistency more than anything else. Even “bad loads” that are predictable, can and do, win matches.

 

[Rob01]

As mentioned buy as much of the same lot as you can but another thing to look at is a tuner. When shooting factory ammo it can be a help to dial in the load to work more accurately. If your barrel is threaded check out a KSS ATS Tuner. Easy on and to use.

Kinetic Security Solutions LLC

Dedicated to providing quality products to the shooting community.

www.kineticsecuritysolutions.com

 

[MCSO1357]

I reload after bedtime when wifey wants to watch Marvelous Maisel. Find it very quiet and peaceful and she doesn't have to listen to me bitch about how lame the show is

Nice to hear that somebody else's wife watched this shit too.

 

[moonstalanda]

Nice to hear that somebody else's wife watched this shit too.

LMAO I'm here for you brother!

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Olin Corporation has owned both Winchester Ammunition and the Winchester trademark for almost (maybe more) than a century.

In fact, FN and Hogdon license the Winchester name from Olin for its respective branded products.

Black Hills loaded Winchester for military contract and contracted Winchester for BHA headstamped brass. Since the military brass went to LC I'm not sure if Blackhills has changed their brass also or not.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

So, let's talk about loading for PRS. I'm a very busy guy with a demanding job and a 4 year old at home that wants to spend time with her daddy. I load ammo for a dozen cartridges, but it's always been the thing I find the most difficult for PRS. I just don't have the time. I was staring at this decision again today with the gap grind in 2 weeks I need 200 for the match+ zero, true data, practice, etc. I think (and I haven't timed this), I've got to be around 2 hours per hundred rounds by the time I do brass prep and loading and all of it. So, I bought 500 rounds of sierra 107gr factory delivered to my door for $575. I figure to load my 6 creed, I'm at about $1.00 per round in components. So, if I load it myself, I'm working for 10 hours for $75. That just won't work. I have done this both ways, and when I miss targets at a PRS match, it isn't because my factory ammo is shooting .75 and my handloads are .35, it's because I fucked something up in either my fundamentals or in dialing or calculations, or one of another 100 reasons. It's not the ammo. What say you hide folks, loading vs buying for PRS? Keep in mind, I'm not knocking anyone off of any podiums. Middle of the pack is a good day for me. I don't have the time to practice enough to be good at this, but I enjoy it.

I have loaded most of the rifle ammo I shoot. It is a financial savings and self supporting if you have time (at least it was, not sure how much primers are running mine are 2013 or before). In you case, if you can afford ammo spend time with your daughter. When you get time to process brass and load it you should have plenty of brass. One of my time savers was to prep a thousand plus cases then prime them and load 60 sometime before a match.