To make a heavy varmint rifle: chassis or stock?

[carbonbased]

So, I have a Rem .204 varmint weight rifle. It currently weighs 13.5 lbs. I shoot prairie dogs with it, never walk with it, and shoot off a 14 lbs X-shaped sandbag (Dog Gone Good brand, USA made!) off a bench. Just bought a Bald Eagle front rest…we’ll see how that goes.

What I want is to make the rifle significantly heavier. The laminate stock is, err, “stock,” and I have the heaviest scope I know of (Razor Gen Ii). With PD shooting, seeing the hits is the whole point, and this setup is significantly more stable than my lighter CZ 527 Varmint .204.

But there’s room for improvement. I imagine adding at least 6.5 lbs for a 20 lbs total would do it.

I’m drawn towards a Manners/McMillian, I really like the T4, but would prefer a non-hook angled butt for elevation changes.

I reckon a chassis is heavier, or easier to make heavy. Is that the case? Can one make a Manners super heavy? Perhaps a Foundation is worth a look? Btw I don’t think a pure bench rest stock with a 3”+ flat forend is in the cards. I have to rotate the stock in the rest for cant adjustments.

Heck, maybe I could just spend $700 on tungsten and make my current stock heavier and save some coin.

Help me out here.

Edit: here’s my gun. Not my pic; it was from the seller, so ignore the scope. I don’t have a fashion studio for my rifles.

 

[MK20]

Pull the buttplate off that stock and drill a bunch of long holes and stick lead bars in it. Way cheaper and if you leave a little room for them to slide back and forth it will help dampen recoil as well.

 

[carbonbased]

That’s on idea I’ve kicked around, although tungsten is 50% heavier and a million times more expensive. Also I’m considering adding rods of lead/tungsten in the forend.

But…maybe I could skip all that work and get a Manners, but I don’t know how heavy one can make them (esp. compared to a chassis like a MDT ACC).

 

[MK20]

Some you can make really heavy but you can actually buy tungsten cheaper than what the chassis and weights would run you. I know because I looked recently.

 

[Gee Kay]

My tikka varmint 223 in an ess chassis weighs about 18lbs or 8kgs. I walk with it and I'm a small guy. Any heavier and I'd need another way to carry it.

 

[Eoddave27]

Weighing down the back will be easy. The front will be the tough part. It doesn’t look like you have a whole lot of room there to work with. If you like the manners they have the PRS-TRS. You can get that up to about 8 pounds I believe.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

If you want a chassis and are willing to spend the $, go MDT ACC and buy all the weights. It will be a 20 pound rifles in no time.

 

[sgtsmmiii]

I'm with MK20. Below is my 1 mile ( 1820 yards ) PD gun in .300 Win Mag. It weighs 34 pounds. Every place I could drill out and add lead has it. The barrel is 1.25" no taper ( so it's got some heft in front ). I like my guns to be balanced so they track evenly, so the buttstock shell is a few layers of laminated wood surrounding a boat load of lead; 40 MOA scope base, and still used up all of the elevation in my Sightron scope.



But I got the little ba$tard.

 

[bmash]

I would go with a chassis. And I know you didn’t ask this, but why not use a break or suppressor. I have no issue seeing impact with a suppressor on my 204 or 6x47 Lapua. Both have heavy barrels.

 

[carbonbased]

I would go with a chassis. And I know you didn’t ask this, but why not use a break or suppressor. I have no issue seeing impact with a suppressor on my 204 or 6x47 Lapua. Both have heavy barrels.

I will be using a suppressor next time I go out this summer. It just got out of jail (only 3.5 months!!!) and the barrel is getting threaded. Maybe that will help some, but I know more weight helps tremendously.

How long are you shooting, and at what?

This winter, I’m getting better at ye olde fundamentals after watching Frank shoot off a bench. I should buy online access to the vids and whatever else is paywalled, as I have much to learn.

 

[carbonbased]

What I’m hearing so far is:

1. Stuff the existing stock full of heavy stuff, or
2. Buy a chassis

I’m not hearing to buy a Manners/McMillian or even a Foundation-type stock.

 

[carbonbased]

I'm with MK20. Below is my 1 mile ( 1820 yards ) PD gun in .300 Win Mag. It weighs 34 pounds. Every place I could drill out and add lead has it. The barrel is 1.25" no taper ( so it's got some heft in front ). I like my guns to be balanced so they track evenly, so the buttstock shell is a few layers of laminated wood surrounding a boat load of lead; 40 MOA scope base, and still used up all of the elevation in my Sightron scope.



But I got the little ba$tard.

Is that a Seb joystick front rest? Sweet rig, btw.

 

[Threadcutter308]

What I’m hearing so far is:

1. Stuff the existing stock full of heavy stuff, or
2. Buy a chassis

I’m not hearing to buy a Manners/McMillian or even a Foundation-type stock.

I've built a number of rifles similar, but not identical to what you generally describe, using Manners T2A's. I haven't added any weight to the stock(s), but it wouldn't be hard to do. I'm getting to the point where I think I'm just going to buy T2's in the future and forego the adjustability of the comb. On the T2A's, I only have the cheekpiece elevated about 3/16ths of an inch from the bottom.

I like the T2A's a great deal. I've had a couple of different Chassis' and I'm not enamored with them.

 

[bmash]

I will be using a suppressor next time I go out this summer. It just got out of jail (only 3.5 months!!!) and the barrel is getting threaded. Maybe that will help some, but I know more weight helps tremendously.

How long are you shooting, and at what?

This winter, I’m getting better at ye olde fundamentals after watching Frank shoot off a bench. I should buy online access to the vids and whatever else is paywalled, as I have much to learn.

Prairie dogs at 100 to 600 yards And steel to 980 yards. I’m an expert as I have done this once! ??! I have also shot a PRS match = again once so another expert! With a 6x47 Lapua (70 gr bullets) and 260 rem (120gr bullets), ultra 7, XLR chassis, and relatively heavy barrels I am able to see impact. The guys with brakes have less muzzle rise but they are too loud for me.
And you are correct, weight helps a lot! I use a lead bar in my 223 AR stock with the suppressor. I am building a bolt 204 and appreciate the ideas above. Thanks.

 

[MarinePMI]

Lose the table. Shoot off a tripod while sitting in a chair, with the rifle clamped into the tripod (ARCA Swiss). No need for weights, etc. Better recoil management, especially for the smaller calibers like 204, 223 and 20 Tactical. Been shooting PD's and ground squirrels off a tripod since they were just called cheaters, and it was a shitty tripod with a small bunny ear bag velcro'ed to tripod base. Started doing that back in the 90's...

Fundamentals. Set the tripod height so both elbows can rest on your knees while sitting in the chair (and on the gun). Steady as hell, and easily handles recoil without losing sight picture.

 

[WB300]

What MarinePMI said.

If you can't spot your hits with the existing set up, your fundamentals and bench need improvement. Not meant to be derogatory. I had a 204 that weighed 12 lbs scoped and had no problem whether benched or bipod.

Keep us updated.

 

[phxfa]

It’s been my experience, any part of the country that has Pdogs available to shoot there’s wind.
And generally a lot of it. Standing or sitting with a rifle mounted on a tripod is nowhere near as stable as a good, heavy and stable bench. The wind not only moves your rifle but your whole body. Might work for steel but not a Pdog at 500 plus yards. 204 Ruger as a 15lb package with a 30 cal suppressor is perfect for dogs IMHO. Can doesn’t get as hot as a 223 model and you can easily see the show at any magnification.

 

[MarinePMI]

I'll remind the Montana PD's that they're safe past 500 yds when using my tripod to shoot off of....????

Again. Fundamentals.

 

[carbonbased]

Thanks for all the replies. I’m going to call Manners next week to talk weight, look for cheaper tungsten and consider the MDT ACC (and other chassis).

Just so we’re clear, I can see the hits around than 70% of the time. I want to see them 100% and I want that rifle not to move (much). Rock of Gibraltar. So, this is mainly about weight and partially about fundamentals. That 34 lbs rifle above is awesome, hahaha.

@MarinePMI do you have any pics of a person demonstrating your setup? I shoot off a table similar to @sgtsmmiii btw. Or off the covered bed of a truck.

 

[MarinePMI]

Sure @carbonbased see below a few pics. One if from two years ago, the other two are from....crap, 10 years or more ago... Look at my elbows (bone support), and the angle of my torso (to manage/absorb recoil). Lots of triangles in the top picture...


Two years ago (Tikka 223 Varmint that's been threaded).

Probably 10 or more years ago (note the cheap Velbon tripod, and ghetto cheater bag). .20 Tactical

Forgive the doo rag; it was well over a hundred degrees when this was taken. The wet shemaghan and a slight breeze were the only things that kept it bearable (this was in a horse meadow, that was in a depression...stifling heat at times).

 

[carbonbased]

Thanks @MarinePMI for the pics. I will try that, although I’d have to rig up a non-arca version as my rifles don’t have that connection. I’ve got a high-end wood tripod and an arca swiss ball head, though.

The thing to keep in mind with the tables, is that they swivel 360 degrees. Super helpful in the dog towns I’ve been to.

 

[phxfa]

 

[phxfa]

Pre Caldwell swivel bench
Park it in the middle of a town and get at it

 

[carbonbased]

Nice bench. I’ve heard those are better than the post-cadwell.

One year I got a $65 deal on this one at end of season at Menards: https://x-stand.com/product/the-x-ecutor-360/

My brother has a similar brand bench called Muddy- something. The X-ecutor is better, for what it’s worth.

I might upgrade my bench, but I found shooting off a hard pickup bed cover is more fun, as it’s super fast to set up. Park, slap bag on bed, shoot.

 

[sgtsmmiii]

Is that a Seb joystick front rest? Sweet rig, btw.

It is. And, thanks for the compliment.

 

[sgtsmmiii]

McMillan used to be willing to add lead to the buttstock for a lot of my stocks ( I run M40 or Heavy Varmint contours on my PD guns ) for an additional fee. They stopped offering it due to the dangers of handling lead about 4 years ago. Not sure about Manners. I did find that you could get a regular fill McMillan, drill a 1/4" hole on the bottom of the buttstock, take a wire pick and pick out a lot of the foam fill, and replace it with very small lead shot ( I use # 9 ), and seal it with Devcon bedding compound.

The way I determine how much shot to add is to place the barreled action into the stock, place the barreled action on a pivot point on the front action screw / or close. Then take a paper cup and make a paperclip wire hanger for it, and attach it to the rear sling swivel ( or equivalent position ). Slowly pour the lead shot into the cup. Once the gun balances, you have the amount of shot you will need to cram into the buttstock to balance the gun. I use small, steel rods to push the shot into the void and surrounding interior foam, along with shaking the stock to help settle the shot. Now the gun will be balanced which should help it track pretty true. I haven't added any epoxy or glue to the shot to "coagulate" it ( some people do ) - and I haven't had any issues with it rattling around.

Hope this helps some.

 

[carbonbased]

Update: I gave up the idea of adding weight to the factory stock and bought a KRG Whiskey 3 folder (heavier than non-folding). Also added the aluminum Arca competition forend and heavy internal weight. Btw the folder makes it easier to clean as I don’t have to mess with lowering the cheek piece.

Also got both the flat heavy butt weight and the heavy angled butt weight. I like the angled one better because it’s faster to slide the rear bag a little to adjust the elevation. With the flat one, I have to add/subtract a spacer under the huge front sandbag I use. If I use a bipod, I have to reach way up there and ratchet the legs up/down.

Rifle is now roughly at 18-19lbs, so all is good. When I shoot my barrel out I’ll get a heavier profile and it’ll be even better.

 

[carbonbased]

Here she is. Just got a Near Mfg pic rail. That rail is a piece of art. Also have a Bix n’ Andy Tacsport Pro 2-stage trigger in it with the gator grip shoe. Mmmmmmmm

 

[viking78]

Manners stocks are famous to be a light ones, made from carbonfiber.
How about KRG, if you like pistolgrip chassis, KRG X-RAY could be a good choise.
And you can get HEAVY accessories for the KRG chassis, or diy make those if you want to save money for the ammo.

X-Ray Chassis – Kinetic Research Group

kineticresearchgroup.com

Heavy Accessories – Kinetic Research Group

kineticresearchgroup.com

 

[carbonbased]

Manners stocks are famous to be a light ones, made from carbonfiber.
How about KRG, if you like pistolgrip chassis, KRG X-RAY could be a good choise.
And you can get HEAVY accessories for the KRG chassis, or diy make those if you want to save money for the ammo.

X-Ray Chassis – Kinetic Research Group

kineticresearchgroup.com

Heavy Accessories – Kinetic Research Group

kineticresearchgroup.com

Brah. Obv you didn’t read the last two posts…I’m the OP…

 

[viking78]

Brah. Obv you didn’t read the last two posts…I’m the OP…

shit happens.....

 

[Dingodog]

OP
Do yourself a favor and don’t add the weight. anything Near a road has been shot at.
I shoot off bipods and walk around with a 13 lbs rifle. You get way more shooting in rather than just shooting off a bench. Marine PMi has it right and has a nice set up.
You should have no issues with that 204 with a brake. You should be able to see your impacts Just the way the rifle sits. Love shooting PD’s. Enjoy

 

[buggz]

I'm with MK20. Below is my 1 mile ( 1820 yards ) PD gun in .300 Win Mag. It weighs 34 pounds. Every place I could drill out and add lead has it. The barrel is 1.25" no taper ( so it's got some heft in front ). I like my guns to be balanced so they track evenly, so the buttstock shell is a few layers of laminated wood surrounding a boat load of lead; 40 MOA scope base, and still used up all of the elevation in my Sightron scope.



But I got the little ba$tard.

You like that table?
I am in search of something like that...

 

[sgtsmmiii]

It works well - seat height is adjustable up/down - table top is adjustable to the right / left for how you like to set up your rifle / rest -top has a perimeter ridge to keep fired cases from rolling off - and - it doesn't weigh too much. Not too bad.

 

[atepointer]

If you want a chassis and are willing to spend the $, go MDT ACC and buy all the weights. It will be a 20 pound rifles in no time.

As I'm thread digging and searching I'll chime in on this and say I'm thrilled with my ACC so far. It's at 23 lbs for a bench only gun and feels fantastic. Have option to add about 3 more lbs....might....might not. Loving it.

Would be interested to hear how heavy and the balance where you felt the sweet spot was for your rig on the table. Mine is going to likely end up 5+ inches north of the mag well when done, but feeling outstanding so far. Never paid much attention to balance since I'm 100% on a bench, but I reckon I'll find at some point I feel a dif with this much weight.

 

[hukset402]

This is not helping my want to get another .204.... never should have sold the one I had.

 

[Grant Goodland]

I'm with MK20. Below is my 1 mile ( 1820 yards ) PD gun in .300 Win Mag. It weighs 34 pounds. Every place I could drill out and add lead has it. The barrel is 1.25" no taper ( so it's got some heft in front ). I like my guns to be balanced so they track evenly, so the buttstock shell is a few layers of laminated wood surrounding a boat load of lead; 40 MOA scope base, and still used up all of the elevation in my Sightron scope.



But I got the little ba$tard.

Digging up an old thread, but I'm new here. I really like this, but I don't want to have to drill and fill. How heavy can you get otherwise? I've seen benchrest competition photos and videos, and those rifles look very heavy. I like the idea of a shove rather than a kick or pop or jump. Is there a manufacturer of those types of stocks? How heavy could I get with a chassis system with the max number of weights installed?