Gunsmithing torque for scope rail

[Baron23]

Hi guys - The action is a Seekins Havak with the scope rail attached with 4 or 5 torx screws. Yeah, unusual to build a custom rifle on a Havak action but when I was looking for a JAE chassis 3-4 years ago I came across a guy selling a complete rifle with 20 rounds on it and frankly there ain't a dang thing wrong with this action.....except, I disfavor bolt on stuff and far prefer rails integral to the action (so, when I had a chance to fully spec my next rifle, I went with a Defiance Deviant).

Now, I know many of you take your rifles apart about as often as you change underwear (well, maybe more frequent for some of you hygiene challenge people LOL) but I do not do so as my super power is breaking things with hand tools. Not sure how I developed this super power, but at 70 y.o. I've prove it time and time again.

But, I wanted to try out PVA's Muzzle Jimmy and The Plug for barrel cleaning and based on another member's experience I wanted to pull the chassis and scope in case of leaks.

Cut to the chase, I'm putting the scope back on the rifle and noticed the entire rail rocking back and forth (left and right) and indeed most of these screws were very loose!!

I pulled them, cleaned the screws and receiving threads, put some blue loctite on them, and I torqued them to 25 in/lbs.

I did do a bit of a search and have seen everything from 20 in/lbs to 45 in/lbs so I'm soliciting your feedback on this. Am I alright at 25 in/lbs?

And, I did not pull the rail off entirely to clean under there...perhaps I should have. In talking to Seekins some goodly time ago and they indicated that their rail is pinned. I'm assuming that the pin(s) are on the rail and a receiving hole is in the action but I don't know and was hesitant lest I screw stuff up (and yes, I know its not complicated). If you guys think it should be pulled entirely and reinstalled, please say so as with blue loctite I can always pull it again.

What say you experts.

Cheers

 

[hafejd30]

20 inch lbs with blue loctite is a very common number. You’ll be fine at 25. No need to go further. I think AI actions are 35 inch lbs which is the highest of anything I’ve used

Pull it
Clean it
Loctite it
20 inch lbs

The lugs are a non issue when removing or installing rail. They’re for recoil

 

[Baron23]

20 inch lbs with blue loctite is a very common number. You’ll be fine at 25. No need to go further. I think AI actions are 35 inch lbs which is the highest of anything I’ve used

Thanks...I thought I was safe but wanted to check....and its frakin Feb, its cold, and I'm bored so I started a thread! hahaha

But seriously, thank you for the quick response.

Cheers

 

[6.5SH]

For rail to action 18-20 in/lbs is common for #6 screws, 28-30 for #8, 40-45 for #10 65 for larger than #10 are all good guidelines. Follow what the manufacturer suggests though and use the above when no guidance was provided.

 

[hafejd30]

Most common will be 6-48 which will likely recommend 15-20 inch. 8-40 may go slightly higher.

 

[Baron23]

For rail to action 18-20 in/lbs is common for #6 screws, 28-30 for #8, 40-45 for #10 65 for larger than #10 are all good guidelines. Follow what the manufacturer suggests though and use the above when no guidance was provided.

Most common will be 6-48 which will likely recommend 15-20 inch. 8-40 may go slightly higher.

Thanks guys...I should prob know from looking at them what size the screws are...but I don't (I think #8 but...??). They do make bases with both #6 for legacy Rem actions and #8 screws for "custom actions". I believe these are #8-40.

I do plan to drop them a line tomorrow and ask their torque recommendations but even with 8-40 screws it would appear that I'm ok right now with 25 in/lbs even for #8 screws.

Thanks again.

 

[akmike47]

About "that much", I just recently got my first torque driver and it really surprised me how close all the screws were by hand, and all were just under spec.

 

[akmike47]

Side note, I've been thinking about dropping the blue thread locker and switching to Vibra tite it's good for multiple uses per application. It's not cheap but I've had multiple blue thread locked screws come loose lately that had zero reason to.

No reason an over travel screw should come loose that has smurf spooge on it.

 

[carbonbased]

smurf spooge

Lol

 

[Baron23]

Update - I reached out to Seekins via their contact email page and today received a great call from Kevin in CS.

Apparently they made actions with both 6-48 and 8-40 (don't ask me why) so he couldn't confirm which I had which is no big deal and I'll check it out when I remove the base again.

And, I'm taking the base off because I did not remove it completely last night...just pulled the screws one at a time and reinstalled...and Kevin recommends complete removal and make sure its clean under there (which even occurred to me but I was being lazy).

He confirmed 25 in/lbs and blue loktite is the way to go.

He also confirmed that they do not bed their scope bases as they are fitted as a pair with a specific action when manufactured. He did say I could do so, but not needed.

Also, I was wrong...the base is not pinned to the action body...but there is a recoil lug on the rail and a shallow slot in the action so it will only go on one way. And yes, I need to keep track of which screw came out of which hole as they are not the same length and go from short in the front to longer in the rear.

Lastly, I did broach the subject with him of the Seekins bolt upgrade. The barrel on this rifle is 6.5 man bun with 2350 rounds on it so its getting a bit long in the tooth and will need replacing at some point not to far in the future. Kevin indicated that yes, I qualify for the free bolt upgrade (and they did a great job and its a tooless bolt disassembly design). He did say that they were waiting on some tooling (most likely resolved by the time I send my action in) and if that's they case, they will just send me back a brand new complete action. Hard to argue with that level of CS. So, when I pull this barrel I'll send it down to them.

Seekins seems to be running hard on all cylinders and being very successful. This kind of CS most certainly helps in that regard.

So, tonight I pull the rail and see if I can break something else. LOL

 

[Baron23]

Small clarification for anybody w a Seekin Havak action, the recoil lug is machined into the action and the slot is in the scope base.

The screws are T15 his keys and mine are #8 screws but you would need to check as they apparently use some #6 for…WTF know. Lol.

There are shorter screws in the two front holes and Omewhat longer in the rear three.

I did pull the base back off to clean and glad I did as there was solvent and gunk under there. Most liquid solvent came from a breach plug (The Plug) for barrel cleaning that leaked a bit for a few minutes then stopped. Perhaps the o-ring swelled a bit from solvent??

Given this happened (but worse) to another member TacOps rifle, I had the BA in the vise, action side downward, and angled a bit w the trigger to the high side. So, when it leaked the solvent went thru the three back screw holes which are open to the inside of the action.

This was BT carbon remover. So, maybe it impacted any sort of thread locker Seekin put in there, but they would not have come utterly loose from that, I believe, as all this happened within the last 24 hours and the gun was not shot during that time frame.

So, it seems that trying out The Plug did me a favor as with the scope off I was alerted to the loose base before firing further and maybe egging out the holes.

Cheers