Training Ideas

[Martens]

All,

The agency I work for is hosting our yearly sniper training day for our tactical association. We have 2.5 hours for stations and are expecting 18 to 20 MO's. Our range is big enough to safely run up to 5 different stations at a time. Depending on the number of stations we will have 30 to 50 minutes per station. The maximum distance we can shoot is 450 yards.

If you don't want to post the training ideas here publicly, please contact me at:

SGT Jeremy Martens
Rolla Police Department
(573) 364-1213
[email protected]

I have reviewed the course of fire for Sniper Challenge 2003 and 2004 and nothing jumped out at me.

A lot of what we are coming up with is just variations of drills done through previous years.

Most of the teams in our association work a mix of city and rural areas. The range drills don't really need to encompass any field work as we are working on that in the afternoon.

Thanks in advance.

 

[rkgsmith]

Re: Training Ideas

If your looking for a stress drill here is one we use. Post a standard face style target at 200 yards. All shots are fired from a standing barricade position, we use 6x6 posts. Fire the first shot, jog to your target and mark your shot, then jog back to the starting point. Take ten trips down range and fire ten shots. We set a max time limit to shoot at 15 seconds. Make sure you run with the rifle, can't leave that pig behind if your running 200 yards. When you done you will have covered 4,000 yards and fired ten shots.

 

[desertHK]

Re: Training Ideas

Now, that will get your heart rate up "a beat, or two".

 

[Ramius]

Re: Training Ideas

Done that and you can't run slick either. Full gear or go home and play with dolls.

 

[Insayn]

Re: Training Ideas

I got some for you. I'll post when I get home. I had it all types out on the iPhone but it dumped it.

 

[Insayn]

Re: Training Ideas

Well...I have 6 hours to go on this extra job so I've got time.

Standards drill off the clock, all shots 5 box (critical mass). I'll get the CSAT times when I get home:
100 yds standing to prone off a bipod 8 seconds
100 yds standing to prone off a pack 8 seconds
75 yds standing to kneeling 7 seconds
75 yds prone to kneeling 8 seconds
50 yds s to k 6 seconds
50 yds p to k 6 seconds
25 yds s to k 4 seconds
25 yds p to k 5 seconds
25 yds standing head shot from low ready 1.5 seconds

Drill similar to one posted above:
200 yds stage rifle and 1 round, 300 stage ammunition (10-15 rounds).
Fire 1 head shot run to 300 and retrieve one round, return to the 200 and repeat till ammo is exhausted. Can be done on the clock with 15-30 second penalty for misses.

Shooter/Spotter Drill:
Start at 250 yds. Run to the 200, spotter recieves a folder with suspect picture matching 1 of 10 targets down range. Spotter describes suspect to shooter as well as search the bank of targets. Fire 1 shot prone or more if needed for a hit. Spotter confirms hit then shooter shoots an auto popper. Run to the 150 and repeat with a different suspect prone and the auto popper once
confirmed. Run to the 100 for a seated bench shot and repeat. Move to the 25 for an out of position hostage shot (i.e. High kneel mousehole).

Deployment drill:
Vehicle staged at the 150 with shooter inside and weapon in the trunk. Deploy on command to the 100 and shoot 5 hostage targets (suspect full view, 75% view, 50% view, 25% view and a side view with suspect in front of hostage for the angle of incident). From the 100 move to a bench or interior hide 100 yds out and repeat the shots. All on the clock.

 

[Insayn]

Re: Training Ideas

If you have time acquire varios types of glass and acrylics for a glass ballistics stage.
Get some vehicles from the pound or junk yard for vehicle shots. Place dummies inside. When the glass is shot out you can remove the glass and clamp other windshields on to replace it. Get the left over cracked windshields from an auto glass shop.

Set up a mover stage if you have a mover. Otherwise get a helium tank and balloons on a 6-8" string.

 

[Insayn]

Re: Training Ideas

I look at it from a training aspect. How many times per week or month are these teams spending on training? How many times are they called upon to deploy? Do they consider laying behind a rifle and doing a zero check training? How well are their mechanics, thought process and fundamentals? Introducing a stressor into the equation, whether a physical (short run) or mental (clock) may elevate the heart rate and breathing like it may be in a real situation. I think learning to control it or even recognizing it is important as well as target identification and backgrounds. Aside from the standards the presence of a clock doesnt mean you have a time limit. The shooter puts that on themselves. Positional shooting as well, because you may not get that comfy, stable prone shot. High grass, barriers or obstructions may force you into a kneeling, seated or even standing position.
This is your annual associations SWAT Conference from what I gather and not a basic introductory school. These guys are coming in from all across the state for training and new ideas. I would imagine they would give negative feedback on fundamental work. Just an opinion.
Now I would like to hear more on the procedural training you have Greg. What type of .22's, optics etc. Send me a PM please.

 

[Martens]

Re: Training Ideas

Guys there are some great ideas here and I will be incorporating a lot of them.

It is a one day joint training and all the guys attending should be practicing LE marksman. We do one of these a year so the snipers can share ideas and learn to work with each other or at least someone from a different team. None of the teams in the association have enough MO's to run long ops by ourselves. We want to know that we are all in the same playbook should we be thrown together.

Any of the sniper/observer drills will be with mixed personel so that we have to learn to work with differing agencies.

I don't want to forget the fundamentals as they are the basis for everything, but I want to throw in some stress and fun at the same time.

For the fundamentals, I plan to do a dope chart confirmation drill to start. Our range is big enough that we can shoot the whole group at once before splitting to the stations. We will fire one shot every 25 yards from 25 to 200. We will shoot 25 to 100 on one bullseye target and 125 to 200 on another, marking each shot as we go. We will do two shots at 150 and 200 so that we get a total of ten shots.

This will be a competitive event, each shooter for themselves. I want to see who knows their dope and rifles and can maintain focus and consistency for 10 shots. This also lets us mount the gun 8 times for one perfect shot.

This will be the warm up and then we will go from there. Even this drill will have us walking alomst 1500 yards.

Once again, thanks to those that have responded and keep the ideas coming.

 

[Insayn]

Re: Training Ideas

I edited my post above with the CSAT Standards Times.

You could do that drill that TJ at Tiger Valley uses for sectorization. Build several cardboard building faces with cutouts in them for toy soldiers. Show the spotter a paper copy with the target opening marked. The spotter has to relay the building, floor and opening to shoot the toy soldier/s (little Army men).

 

[Ramius]

Re: Training Ideas

If they are active LE I would not do any warm up.

I would have them deploy and let them fire a cold bore shot as part of the very first drill, under time.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: Training Ideas

also try to use elevated positions (tower made of scaffolding, etc.) to simulate rooftop work and the cosine thing. maybe (if available) shooting into a valley, canyon, etc. will work. try some night stuff with the lights, strobes, road flares and sirens on (or at least the lights and strobes) to do some vision impairment sims. perhaps a figure in a window or vehicle with a lit candle on the floor or one of those snap lights swinging on some cord inside to do a silhoutte / shadow and gives the appearance of movement. a wooden platform (a door works well) suspended by chains to four posts works good for anytype of boat work (sways) and trains to keep the shooter still for concelment training. also a timed stalk to hard cover (vehicle, stacked cinderblocks to simulate building corners work well, steel pipe for a hydrant), plus it helps develop positions in those areas. have them lie on a line of bricks to simulate a gutter, or ditch, and a drainage grate for added comfort.

for shits and giggles:

there's nothing like "shoot the pistol out of the perp's hand" to bring on some bragging rights

we did a "hot dog" stage once using a stuffed animal we called "spot" to simulate taking the pit bull gaurd dog out of the picture before a dynamic entry.

also had a RO put lab mice in our pockets used to judge performance with distraction. that guy was resourcefull.

 

[pj68]

Re: Training Ideas

Martens,
If i may suggest. Have the shooter start out at 100 or 200 yard line. Have them run back to the firing line. Get into a firing position" i.e. prone, sitting, kneeling". Identify the target from a group of say 5. Dope said shot and shoot. All under the clock.
Another idea. Have them start in the car rig in trunk. Kinda like they are on call out. Have them get outta car do some pushups to induce stress like situation. Then have them run up to firing line. Have 5-10 targets out there once in position. Tell them which target to shoot. Once done seperate the shooter already done from the ones not run through it yet.

SOTA

 

[Graham]

Re: Training Ideas

Wake the competitor at 3am with a call on his pager. Give him half an hour to brush his teeth, change, jump in the car and drive twenty miles to the range. Have him park five hundred yards away, walk in with the gear he thinks he will need, and pick a spot for a FFP. Grade him on his choice of FFP.

Hope he brought with him his issue radio with a fully charged battery. Decribe the target to him on the radio and don't answer his cell phone calls. Then let him sit in the pouring rain for three hours, until six-thirty am, doing nothing.

If he initiates a LOCREP within ten minutes of his arrival give him ten points. If he tries to communicate with you asking for relief give him another ten points. After three hours announce that the exercise is over. If he has drawn an accurate range card with dimensions for everything he could see from his FFP, give him another ten points.

Pull him aside and give him a cup of coffee. While he is sipping the coffee ask for a detailed commentary of everything he saw. If he tells you to F-off, but gives a good description, give him ten more points.

Then fail him if he goes home without filling in an accurate time card with the overtime in the appropriate column.

 

[Insayn]

Re: Training Ideas

I like the above...LOL

 

[pj68]

Re: Training Ideas

Graham,
I know an agency that will do just that. They give you a call over the radio. You show up at the area. Instructor tells you the situation. He then stands back and grades you what everything you do. I think thats a great training tool.

SOTA

 

[Graham]

Re: Training Ideas

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sota</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He then stands back and grades you what everything you do.</div></div>That's educational if he really does know what to do and what to look for. But that kind of thing has the potential to become a circus when the trainers only think they know what they are doing.

 

[Graham]

Re: Training Ideas

Martens, PM sent.

 

[rkgsmith]

Re: Training Ideas

I've done a KIMS game at a comp that went like this. Have role players set up some type of scenario, possibly a drug deal or meeting. Have this go on for 30 minutes with the class observing. One catch is no note taking, all visual and memory. Have them describe clothing, vehicles, people, weapons, jestures, important parts of the scenario, anything to be tested on. Then give a written test. Better to let them go to lunch, then take the test.

 

[MADUCE]

Re: Training Ideas


We changed the way we do the sectorization drills. All the buildings are now plotted on a printer to scale. An Army man is 2 inches high and we use that as our standard for a six foot man. We put the prints on white corrugated board and cut window out for the Army men. I might have a few left if you guys need them. give me a call 972-977-9512


http://tigervalley.smugmug.com/Tiger%20Valley%20Training

 

[Guest]

Re: Training Ideas

Hi TJ,

I'd love to see pics of the finished product with the Army men in there, and an explanation of how the drill is conducted. Sounds awesome.

--Freddy

 

[Martens]

Re: Training Ideas

We do a drill that covers a lot of the same skills as sectorization. We use a deck of cards, with the cards split between 2 or 4 boards set at 50 and 100 yards, or 25, 50, 75, 100. The RO drops a card between the pair and they have a limited time to scan the boards, find the shot and take it.

The RO then "deals" the next card to the next team. You can play 5 card stud where each team member of the team needs to get a hit on the card for it to count, or seven card where the each member of the team gets 4 shots. This will give the team a second shot to spot and correct for a miss. Of course all shots need to be in time to count.


If the teams are smart, they will start mapping out the boards will waiting for the the dealer/RO to come back around for their next card. If they don't make range cards, then they better divide responsibilities and trust their partner or they will run out of time. Depending on what equipment each agency issues, they will learn quick to maximize each others strengths.

For guys that are used to working together it can be fun to watch. We plan to do it at the combined training mixing agencies and it should be real interesting.

Keep the ideas coming. I have written them all down and combined some with drills we already had. If the weather holds today, I will get out to the range to shoot a couple of them to see how well they will work for us.

 

[MADUCE]

Re: Training Ideas

We set the buildings at 100 yards or less. Windows are cut out and ledges are hot glued behind the window opening that allows Army men to be paper clipped. All the buildings are photo quality, with vehicles trees and other distraction. I like this exercise because it mimics real life situations. The shooter and spotter are looking at a representation of an urban situation, not unlike they would encounter on the job. The first phase the shooter is required to make a range card of what he sees down range. We also have 8X10 laminated copies of the pictures. In the shooting portion we hand the spotter one of the pictures. On the laminate is a circle around one window that he has to call the shooter into. As you can see, some of the buildings are very close in description. This is a great drill not only for the shooter but the observer, who has to call in a detailed description for the shooter. The Army men torso is 1/4X3/8 of an inch which isn't an easy shot by any means. The uses of this drill are endless. You can also make the team find the lone sniper in the six building complex and eliminate him.

 

[Martens]

Re: Training Ideas

I love the building drill. We will be using this down the road and maybe for the regional day. There is still a lot to be done and I don't know if we could get everything done.

I shot Insayn's drill today using a T zone face target and it is anything but easy. I was usually .5 to 1.5 seconds over time and all shots were in the head but anything but pretty. I got caught once forgetting to dial down my magnification as I moved up.

BTW what is a 5 box target?

 

[Martens]

Re: Training Ideas

I came across a "Bill" drill for precision rigs and an "el presidente" for precision rigs in a LE article. Let me know what you guys think of them. I ask as when I ran the drills by one of the guys on the team he could not see the value in them.

For the bill drill, the goal is to put 5 rounds from a prone bipod position into a t zone target in 15 seconds. Distance is 100 yards.

As the el presidente was not well explained, I ran it with two face targets, 10 feet apart, at a distance of 100 yards. I fired one at each target, reloaded and one per target.

For the bill drill, the best I could do was 18 seconds. I was suprised as I was shooting a semi auto, .223, with a brake. It felt smooth and the shoots were pretty good, not great. I would have 4 in the T zone and one about 1/4 inch out. This was the same for both runs. I think I can pick up the speed and will work on it. I would be amazed to watch a guy work a bolt gun and get 5 rounds in 15 seconds.

For the el presidente, I started standing behind the gun with it loaded, on safe, and scope covers down. I really focused and had some really good shots. As I swung to the second target, I had a tendency to not control the rifle as much and throw one out of the t zone but still in the head. The other 3 shots were all well inside the center 2 inch circle of the t zone. I also learned that my 20 round mags won't drop free from a prone position off the bipod. The first run I rocked onto one bipod leg and when I got back into position, I was all sorts of out of alignment. The second time, I rocked it foward slightly on both legs and came back on target real quick. First run was in 34 seconds and second run was in 28 seconds.

Loading from my body forced me to figure out that I hadn't really thought much about how I carry spare ammo.

Anyway I learned something doing the drills which is always a good thing.

Let me know what you think of these drills.

 

[Guest]

Re: Training Ideas

The El Presidente has demonstrable value, but the bill does not in my opinion.

If you're following the standard Pistol El Pres, it should be three targs. This drill forces you to reacquire good NPOA, and change position each shot.

The bill, on the other hand does not appear to me to exercise any practical & usable technique.

That's the difference as I see it between the two.

--Fargo007

 

[Outsydlooknin75]

Re: Training Ideas

WE did a Kims game at our last match. Ten random items in a bucket dumped on the table for one minute of viewing.

Stanley metric allen wrenches 1.5 to 10mm, yellow plastic holder, smallest on right in front largest in rear on back row.

Hoppes #9 12gauge bore brush

Ryobi exact mix 2 stroke oil, black bottle burgundy cap, do not use with e 85 gasoline

Stanley staples 3/8ths yellow package black and green logo

Tapco 30 round AK magazine plastic with metal floor plate black in color

Project calculator, yellow in color, flip open face.

Cherokee Pawn and guns business card, Kimber 1911 on front.

Winchester box of 20 gauge slugs, box grey in color 25 count.

McCormick ground black pepper in a white can blue and red logo, 400 grains.


Shit I cant think of anything else that was in there. But that was over a month ago I am lucky to remember that much. But then again I am only missing one item out of the ten. BUT that could be the most important thing is the one item that I am missing.

Nut or Jay, if you see this do you remember what was the last item?

 

[Graham]

Re: Training Ideas

Or you could just have a stage of Jeff Cooper's Rifle Bounce, in under 30 sec.