Training scars... let's hear 'em

[cliffy110]

What do you see as training scars? What are the things you see done in this community that are done with such repetition that it creates habits that are bad in the real world of either hunting or tactical use? What things should a noob like myself avoid learning through repetition that would be bad outside of a training/competition scenario?

In the handgun world, the practice of unloading and showing clear after an engagement is one of those scars. How do the things done in long range training and competition teach things that would not help in real life?

 

[Holliday]

Never ever trust a paint-baller…..

 

[Sblzrd65]

More handgun focused, but Chuck Pressburg has a Primary & Secondary clip on YouTube about pistol matches and timing. How for competition they transition between shots a lot faster, the sight picture isn't as clear, and there's more movement all for faster times. But in real life it may take longer than one quick 90% accurate shot to stop the target and give a real life close call story related to it.

So competition is great for inventive stages, pressure under a timer, comparing to others, and overall improvement, but will have to remember in real life bad guys may not be following the standard rulebook you thought you were.

 

[MK20]

Chamber flags are the most retarded thing I have seen in a long time.

I don't need to stick a gay pride rainbow colored dildo in my chamber to know the status of my weapon.

Treat it as if it is loaded. Don't point the muzzle at anything I am not willing to destroy.

Done.

Chamber flags encourage negligence because "the gun is unloaded", mindset will carry over to when it is not.

Nothing is more useless than an unloaded gun.

 

[alamo5000]

What do you see as training scars? What are the things you see done in this community that are done with such repetition that it creates habits that are bad in the real world of either hunting or tactical use? What things should a noob like myself avoid learning through repetition that would be bad outside of a training/competition scenario?

In the handgun world, the practice of unloading and showing clear after an engagement is one of those scars. How do the things done in long range training and competition teach things that would not help in real life?

I'm no expert in any of this stuff but my opinion is having an an attitude of absolute-ism is a huge problem.

Ask any of the top tier door kickers from the WoT if how they started doing things was the exact same as it was by the time they were ready to go. The answer will be definitively no.

There are things that you might not like or want to emulate along the way, but proactively keeping an attitude of teachability would be the #1 thing to actively work on regardless of how skilled you are or might become.

 

[Sblzrd65]

Chamber flags are the most retarded thing I have seen in a long time.

I don't need to stick a gay pride rainbow colored dildo in my chamber to know the status of my weapon.

Treat it as if it is loaded. Don't point the muzzle at anything I am not willing to destroy.

Done.

Chamber flags encourage negligence because "the gun is unloaded", mindset will carry over to when it is not.

Nothing is more useless than an unloaded gun.

So in principle I'd agree, though for PRS last summer/fall here on the East Coast they switched to the ECI plugs that go into the chamber and barrel a bit over the magazine-plug style because apparently there were a few loaded chambers happening otherwise and related after effects. So on one hand it's certainly more of a competition thing, though on the other hand there's at least a few people that don't know the status of their rifles in public. (so the take away is know the status of your weapon and don't assume you know (it's okay to press check, etc.))

 

[MK20]

So in principle I'd agree, though for PRS last summer/fall here on the East Coast they switched to the ECI plugs that go into the chamber and barrel a bit over the magazine-plug style because apparently there were a few loaded chambers happening otherwise and related after effects. So on one hand it's certainly more of a competition thing, though on the other hand there's at least a few people that don't know the status of their rifles in public. (so the take away is know the status of your weapon and don't assume you know (it's okay to press check, etc.))

I would advocate for a 6 month ban from all league comps for not knowing status of weapon.

Match DQ for flagging.

 

[cas6969]

I don't need to stick a gay pride rainbow colored dildo in my chamber to know the status of my weapon.

Maybe you should. It would certainly be a conversation starter.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Chamber flags are the most retarded thing I have seen in a long time.

I don't need to stick a gay pride rainbow colored dildo in my chamber to know the status of my weapon.

Treat it as if it is loaded. Don't point the muzzle at anything I am not willing to destroy.

Done.

Chamber flags encourage negligence because "the gun is unloaded", mindset will carry over to when it is not.

Nothing is more useless than an unloaded gun.

Not to disagree, but retarded chamber flags were created because of retards.

I've been a range officer for 10 years of my life. During that time, I've had people "accidentally" point a gun at me at least two dozen times, and there wasn't a chamber flag present.

 

[MarshallDodge]

My training scar would be loading the bipod. After many years of being taught to do it that way, I still find myself still doing it once in a while.

 

[toopoorformore]

Being quick to re-holster (or slinging a long gun). A wiser man than me once said, “no one won a gun fight being fast back to the holster.”

 

[308pirate]

In the handgun world, the practice of unloading and showing clear after an engagement is one of those scars.

LOL bullshit. I'll ask my cop friends who shoot USPSA. The five of them span the range from mid size PDs to big city PDs, to state patrol SWAT. They all have been in more than one gunfight as they are all very senior (20+ years of service).

 

[308pirate]

Chamber flags are the most retarded thing I have seen in a long time.

I don't need to stick a gay pride rainbow colored dildo in my chamber to know the status of my weapon.

It's so everyone else can see what the status of your "weapon" is.

If some of you idiots can't manage the dichotomy between a sport where a lot of people are involved and actual real world usage then you don't even have any business holding a "weapon" in your hands.

 

[308pirate]

More handgun focused, but Chuck Pressburg has a Primary & Secondary clip on YouTube about pistol matches and timing. How for competition they transition between shots a lot faster, the sight picture isn't as clear, and there's more movement all for faster times. But in real life it may take longer than one quick 90% accurate shot to stop the target and give a real life close call story related to it.

So competition is great for inventive stages, pressure under a timer, comparing to others, and overall improvement, but will have to remember in real life bad guys may not be following the standard rulebook you thought you were.

That guy is captain obvious

 

[308pirate]

So in principle I'd agree, though for PRS last summer/fall here on the East Coast they switched to the ECI plugs that go into the chamber and barrel a bit over the magazine-plug style because apparently there were a few loaded chambers happening otherwise and related after effects.

It was only a matter of time before that happened.

The NRA rifle sports figured that out decades ago and has required IN CHAMBER ECIs for at least 25 years exactly for that same reason.

That's what happens when an organization (if PRS can be called that) acts as if no other rifle sports have ever taken place before.

 

[308pirate]

Being quick to re-holster (or slinging a long gun). A wiser man than me once said, “no one won a gun fight being fast back to the holster.”

Knowing how to reholster into concealment rapidly and SAFELY might make the difference between being interviewed by cops after a self defense shooting and being shot by them when they arrive.

 

[MK20]

It's so everyone else can see what the status of your "weapon" is.

If some of you idiots can't manage the dichotomy between a sport where a lot of people are involved and actual real world usage then you don't even have any business holding a "weapon" in your hands.

No one else needs to know the status of my weapon if I am abiding by the 4 rules of gun safety. Their interest becomes irrelevant. Am I pointing it at them? No. Am I treating it as if it is loaded? Yes.

So why the hell should they care if it is loaded or not. It doesn't matter.

This country grew up for many years with the worlds of sport shooting and other use being almost one and the same.

Since we have divorced the two and started making rules to coddle the retards instead of educating them, we have ended up making more and more rules for "safety". We don't need more rules. We need more responsibility.

 

[308pirate]

No one else needs to know the status of my weapon if I am abiding by the 4 rules of gun safety. Their interest becomes irrelevant. Am I pointing it at them? No. Am I treating it as if it is loaded?

That's fine on your own property. When you play in someone else's house, the rules change.

When you are involved in a sport or some sort of organized event, the director/organizer gets to decide who needs to know the status of your "weapon". No longer your call to make.

I know you like to sound all tough and "this is my safety sir" online, but in the real world you'll either put the motherfucking ECI into your rifle's chamber or you will be disqualified from the match, and depending on your attitude, escorted the fuck out of the property.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Because you have large groups of people of unknown experience levels carrying guns around and you can't babysit them all or assume they all know what they're doing. So you dumb it down to the lowest common denominator till everyone can visibly see the gun is empty.
Believe it or not, we actually want new people to show up. At the same time as we welcome them, we don't trust them. Same goes for the fudds that have been "shooting guns since you were in diapers!". Since we can't trust these retards we might as well see from a distance that the gun they're waving around is at least empty.

 

[Tx_Aggie]

Someone should change the title of this thread to:

"A list of all the tired old excuses people use to justify their fears of being embarrassed at a match."

I would advocate for a 6 month ban from all league comps for not knowing status of weapon.

Match DQ for flagging.

That's great until someone fucking dies at a rifle match because an idiot broke all 4 rules with a loaded weapon. Rifles are fucking lethal, and if someone gets shot at close range with a carbine or PRS rifle they most likely are not going to make it. So no one really gives a fuck about whether or not being required to use an ECI hurts someone's feelings.

And if you follow the 4 rules, the status of your weapon is always assumed to be loaded, even if it isn't. So who cares if you "know the status of your weapon." No one gets a pass for being careless with a firearm just because they "know it to be unloaded." This is still true when chamber flags are required. Or when the requirement is to have your unloaded pistol holstered at a pistol match.

The point of requiring chamber flags is not to excuse people from following the 4 rules. It is to add a layer of protection for when someone breaks a safety rule. It's so that we can DQ the person and teach a lesson, without also dealing with a medical emergency and the likely death of another shooter.

 

[Racer88]

Chamber flags are the most retarded thing I have seen in a long time.

I don't need to stick a gay pride rainbow colored dildo in my chamber to know the status of my weapon.

Treat it as if it is loaded. Don't point the muzzle at anything I am not willing to destroy.

Done.

Chamber flags encourage negligence because "the gun is unloaded", mindset will carry over to when it is not.

Nothing is more useless than an unloaded gun.

I like to use chamber flags on the bench at the range. It's not for me. It's for the RSOs, who may be tempted to finger-fuck my guns trying to figure out if they're clear for the range to go cold. With the chamber flags, it's super-obvious, and the RSO moves on.

 

[toopoorformore]

Knowing how to reholster into concealment rapidly and SAFELY might make the difference between being interviewed by cops after a self defense shooting and being shot by them when they arrive.

Totally get what you’re saying and I agree. I was referring to people racing to get back to the holster after they have just attempted to neutralize a threat after one or two rounds. Happens all the time where I train.

It’s bad habit to assume your shots are effective without mindfully reassessing and determining there is no longer a threat. That’s all I meant.

This thread is full of good points though.

 

[MK20]

That's fine on your own property. When you play in someone else's house, the rules change.

When you are involved in a sport or some sort of organized event, the director/organizer gets to decide who needs to know the status of your "weapon". No longer your call to make.

I know you like to sound all tough and "this is my safety sir" online, but in the real world you'll either put the motherfucking ECI into your rifle's chamber or you will be disqualified from the match, and depending on your attitude, escorted the fuck out of the property.

Yes. We are debating the wisdom of the current rules, not whether the current rules exist.

Thank you for confirming that they do. Now let's move on to discussing the wisdom of them.

As far as shooting on someone else's range, this is why I own property, a bulldozer, and have built my own range.

I can't stand public ranges.

Oh, and the safest ranges I have ever been on are ranges where the guns are always hot and there is no such thing as a cold line. It is just a better system.

Unfortunately, most people have never progressed to a level where they were able to experience that and thus don't have that understanding.

 

[308pirate]

Yes. We are debating the wisdom of the current rules, not whether the current rules exist.

There is no debate. There are a multitude of reasons why they are needed.

Oh, and the safest ranges I have ever been on are ranges where the guns are always hot and there is no such thing as a cold line. It is just a better system.

That depends on who is there

 

[cliffy110]

So this derailed quickly. A training scar (or competition scar) isn't a knock on practices at training or competition. I'm not arguing that the rules are in place for often (not always) valid reasons. I'm pointing out that some of those practices need to be overcome if we commit them to rote.

I'm not new to rifles but I am new to long range shooting. I'll tell you a few things I've seen that concern me as I get into this. I see them as potential training scars that I want to make sure I don't make a habit.

1. Opening the action between shooting positions. That one seems like a very obvious problem if one ever were to utilize a rifle outside of a competitive scenario.

2. The cold range. I've trained with both handguns and rifles on hot and cold ranges and cold ranges bother me. My mindset is that if I have a gun on me, it should always be in a condition that is ready to use. The idea of only loading when my sights are already aligned on a target seems the opposite of what a combat mindset should be.

3. The lack of sling use. I use my rifles and I view every day in the woods as a training scenario. I learn what does and does not work for carrying the gun and deploying it from a carried to a shooting position. The small local matches I've gone to, I'm the ONLY guy with a sling on his rifle. I'm not sure any of them have even tried carrying with a sling, let alone shoot with one as a shooting aid.

Again though... I'm not criticizing the rules of matches or training. Those exist for good reasons. I'm pointing out that I see some areas where a rifleman needs to figure out ways to overcome the habits that the training and competition are instilling.

 

[MK20]

Yeah, easy. Use your guns in real world scenarios, not PRS comps.

I kind of get the action open while negotiating obstacles thing though. With how light some guys are running triggers it is probably advised. I don't like triggers that light, but some do.

 

[mark5pt56]

Not mine but see a bunch of folks manipulating guns in a manner that will never be done in real life. One example is a right hander resting a pistol on the bench with their left hand half assed holding the slide and Mr. Potato Head'ing the magazine into the magwell.
My belief is get every opportunity you can to reenforce a skill set--meaning something you will actually do in real life.

The other is follow through-did I hit, was it effective and can I hit again RIGHT NOW? I've actually seen folks fire their last round half way back to the holster or ready.

 

[308pirate]

1. Opening the action between shooting positions. That one seems like a very obvious problem if one ever were to utilize a rifle outside of a competitive scenario.

2. The cold range. I've trained with both handguns and rifles on hot and cold ranges and cold ranges bother me. My mindset is that if I have a gun on me, it should always be in a condition that is ready to use. The idea of only loading when my sights are already aligned on a target seems the opposite of what a combat mindset should be.

3. The lack of sling use. I use my rifles and I view every day in the woods as a training scenario. I learn what does and does not work for carrying the gun and deploying it from a carried to a shooting position. The small local matches I've gone to, I'm the ONLY guy with a sling on his rifle. I'm not sure any of them have even tried carrying with a sling, let alone shoot with one as a shooting aid.

It takes literally zero effort to overcome these "scars"

You're never going to get rid of cold ranges for competition unless you limit your participation to a few of bubba tactical hard dude matches here and there. I carry a handgun every time I step out of the house and it's easily accessible when I'm in the house. I also compete in USPSA matches several times a month. Never, ever have I ever returned home and "unload and show clear" my pistol when I take it off. It's almost like as human beings we can maintain different mental programs for different situations, instead of being numb automatons that do the same thing every time without discrimination.

The sling on a PRS rifle is a contrived problem. If you want to have a sling on your rifle, sling it up between stages, and use it as a shooting support, you can do so. What others do is irrelevant and not something that affects you.

 

[308pirate]

Yeah, easy. Use your guns in real world scenarios, not PRS comps.

And what would those be?

 

[MK20]

And what would those be?

SPRING: Hunt bear, turkey, cougar, wolf, coyote

SUMMER: Hunt wolf, cougar, coyote

FALL: Hunt deer, elk, bear, wolf, coyote, cougar, grouse, rabbit

WINTER: Hunt cougar, wolf, coyote

Go shoot groundhogs.

Join the military. Hunt bad people.

Shoot with friends who aren't retarded and need chamber flags and a flat range with an RSO to assuage their "feels".

Take your gun for a walk. Targets of opportunity.

Make the gun a part of your life and not an event.

 

[cliffy110]

It takes literally zero effort to overcome these "scars"

You're never going to get rid of cold ranges for competition unless you limit your participation to a few of bubba tactical hard dude matches here and there. I carry a handgun every time I step out of the house and it's easily accessible when I'm in the house. I also compete in USPSA matches several times a month. Never, ever have I ever returned home and "unload and show clear" my pistol when I take it off. It's almost like as human beings we can maintain different mental programs for different situations, instead of being numb automatons that do the same thing every time without discrimination.

The sling on a PRS rifle is a contrived problem. If you want to have a sling on your rifle, sling it up between stages, and use it as a shooting support, you can do so. What others do is irrelevant and not something that affects you.

Got it. Nothing done in training or competition has any chance to create a bad habit that would be bad in the real world. Training scars don't exist and I'm glad there are guys like you around to set a new guy straight on such things.

 

[cliffy110]

SPRING: Hunt bear, turkey, cougar, wolf, coyote

SUMMER: Hunt wolf, cougar, coyote

FALL: Hunt deer, elk, bear, wolf, coyote, cougar, grouse, rabbit

WINTER: Hunt cougar, wolf, coyote

Go shoot groundhogs.

Join the military. Hunt bad people.

Shoot with friends who aren't retarded and need chamber flags and a flat range with an RSO to assuage their "feels".

Take your gun for a walk. Targets of opportunity.

Make the gun a part of your life and not an event.

Yup. Taking a practical or tactical class or finding guys who train with rifles in a private setting in condition 1 would also qualify. You kinda covered that already though. It is amazing what one learns about their guns and gear when they get off the formal settings.

 

[clcustom1911]

What do you see as training scars? What are the things you see done in this community that are done with such repetition that it creates habits that are bad in the real world of either hunting or tactical use? What things should a noob like myself avoid learning through repetition that would be bad outside of a training/competition scenario?

In the handgun world, the practice of unloading and showing clear after an engagement is one of those scars. How do the things done in long range training and competition teach things that would not help in real life?

-After reloading, picking up an empty magazine as soon as it hits the ground.

-Not letting an empty magazine fall free because you dont want to damage it.

-Failure to properly perform immediate action or remedial action for a malfunction/stoppage.

these actions (and other similar ones) occur when you have a mindset of "you're just at a range practicing". Mindset is key. You're there to train/practice for real shit.

 

[Tx_Aggie]

Got it. Nothing done in training or competition has any chance to create a bad habit that would be bad in the real world. Training scars don't exist and I'm glad there are guys like you around to set a new guy straight on such things.

The myriad of combat arms mil guys who participate in competitive shooting with the blessing and encouragement of their commands would probably disagree that shooting comps will make a person unable to use their weapon in any environment other than a timed stage at a match.

Do professional race car drivers avoid driving on the road for fear of developing training scars from following traffic signs, speed limits, or in some cases turning to the right? Do guys who take up racing as a hobby forget how to safely operate a car on the road?

Really, the idea that a guy is going to forget how to operate a rifle in the field because he's taken up PRS, NRL Hunter, or field style team matches doesn't really make much sense to me. The same goes for shooting more speed oriented events like USPSA, Multigun, or the newer QP style gas gun matches.

And often it's the opposite. The guy who shoots competitively often becomes a much more lethal hunter because he has things like the shot process, NPA, and calling wind dialed in to a much greater degree than someone who only hunts and otherwise shoots very little.

Participation in shotgun sports doesn't make people unable to kill birds, instead it often makes them substantially more lethal hunters.

Yup. Taking a practical or tactical class or finding guys who train with rifles in a private setting in condition 1 would also qualify. You kinda covered that already though. It is amazing what one learns about their guns and gear when they get off the formal settings.

If you decide to avoid competition solely because you insist on only shooting on a hot range, you'll just be short changing yourself. But that's certainly your prerogative.

 

[cliffy110]

If you decide to avoid competition solely because you insist on only shooting on a hot range, you'll just be short changing yourself. But that's certainly your prerogative.

Who said anything about avoiding competition? I sure didn’t. I asked what things to be aware of that get done in competition or training that would be detrimental to use in the real world. If you took that as avoiding competition, then I would suggest you’re reading things in that don’t exist nor were even hinted at.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Not mine but see a bunch of folks manipulating guns in a manner that will never be done in real life. One example is a right hander resting a pistol on the bench with their left hand half assed holding the slide and Mr. Potato Head'ing the magazine into the magwell.

I had an aneurysm trying to picture this. I still don't understand it, but it sounds retarded.

 

[308pirate]

SPRING: Hunt bear, turkey, cougar, wolf, coyote

SUMMER: Hunt wolf, cougar, coyote

FALL: Hunt deer, elk, bear, wolf, coyote, cougar, grouse, rabbit

WINTER: Hunt cougar, wolf, coyote

Go shoot groundhogs.

I used to. Fuck being cold and wet

Join the military. Hunt bad people.

1988 - 1993

Shoot with friends who aren't retarded and need chamber flags and a flat range with an RSO to assuage their "feels".

Already do

Take your gun for a walk. Targets of opportunity.

I'd like to do that but I'd be arrested for murder

Make the gun a part of your life and not an event.

A handgun is on me or within hands reach 24/7

 

[308pirate]

Training scars don't exist

Tell me about YOUR training scars

 

[308pirate]

It is amazing what one learns about their guns and gear when they get off the formal settings.

Do tell.

 

[cliffy110]

Tell me about YOUR training scars

I didn't ask for your personal training scars. I asked what kinds of things you see that are a potential scar of training.

Since you asked, I'll give you the big one in the scout/practical training world. Drills are almost always centered around a 5 round set. Guys tend to run the rifle dry and then reload for the next set. I think that's a problem so I usually top off with one in the chamber over a full magazine. That requires a tac load instead of an emergency reload. If I reach the end of the set and it is time to unload for a debrief, I'll be the only guy who has to empty the rifle. No big deal. I'd rather have that habit than the habit of running dry on the line.

 

[cliffy110]

Do tell.

Dude... what is the issue here? Why the combativeness? Who hurt you?

 

[Makinchips208]

I saw a guy discharge his 1911 on the draw from kneeling, the bullet went out the bottom of the holster and barely missed his knee.

He ALMOST had a training scar.

 

[ma smith]

Got it. Nothing done in training or competition has any chance to create a bad habit that would be bad in the real world. Training scars don't exist and I'm glad there are guys like you around to set a new guy straight on such things.

Removing bolts from rifles that are not drop save is not a "bad habit", its the correct way to handle such rifles. PRS and BR rifles are inherenlty unsafe if built to min rulebook specs/ requirements (ie there is no min rulebook requirement for them to be drop-safe!).

 

[308pirate]

I didn't ask for your personal training scars. I asked what kinds of things you see that are a potential scar of training.

Since you asked, I'll give you the big one in the scout/practical training world. Drills are almost always centered around a 5 round set. Guys tend to run the rifle dry and then reload for the next set. I think that's a problem so I usually top off with one in the chamber over a full magazine. That requires a tac load instead of an emergency reload. If I reach the end of the set and it is time to unload for a debrief, I'll be the only guy who has to empty the rifle. No big deal. I'd rather have that habit than the habit of running dry on the line.

Interesting

When I started in USPSA I competed in Production division, which at the time only allowed 10 rounds in the magazines (15 now).

I can't recall the last time I stopped at 10 rounds when filling up my carry gun.

The brain knows we live in different contexts. Mine does, anyway.

 

[Tx_Aggie]

Who said anything about avoiding competition? I sure didn’t. I asked what things to be aware of that get done in competition or training that would be detrimental to use in the real world. If you took that as avoiding competition, then I would suggest you’re reading things in that don’t exist nor were even hinted at.

In the post I quoted you were agreeing with the guy who's entire point seems to be that cold ranges and competitive shooting are beneath him because he's too high-speed to shoot anywhere he can't have his rifle loaded all the time.

I can see how you could've just been agreeing that hunting and shooting informally with likeminded folks are good, which they are. I just don't think either can replace the challenges provided by shooting competitively.

Anyways, I haven't had issues with any of the specific concerns you listed. The bolt open between positions thing, and the sky loading rules in NRL hunter haven't affected how I handle a rifle outside of those events. I still use slings on many of my rifles, but usually don't shoot with one in precision rifle matches because we nearly always shoot off of some sort of support.

This is probably obvious, but I would consider becoming reliant of things like rifle weight, using a heavy sand filled bag, or a light trigger to avoid building solid positions and using good trigger control potential "training scars" from a poor approach to precision rifle competition. Those things are all tools that are necessary to be competitive at a high level in PRS (less so in Hunter or team matches) but they can become crutches. Also, a lot of guys who only shoot PRS can be lazy about other parts of basic rifle craft, such as ranging targets for themselves (they just use the ranges provided) or making wind calls (they rely on asking other squad members).

 

[cliffy110]

In the post I quoted you were agreeing with the guy who's entire point seems to be that cold ranges and competitive shooting are beneath him because he's too high-speed to shoot anywhere he can't have his rifle loaded all the time.

I can see how you could've just been agreeing that hunting and shooting informally with likeminded folks are good, which they are. I just don't think either can replace the challenges provided by shooting competitively.

Anyways, I haven't had issue with any of the specific concerns you listed. The bolt open between positions thing, and the sky loading rules in NRL hunter haven't affected how I handle a rifle outside of those events. I still use slings on many of my rifles, but usually don't shoot with one in precision rifle matches because we nearly always shoot off of some sort of support.

This is probably obvious, but I would consider becoming reliant of things like rifle weight, using a heavy sand filled bag, or a light trigger to avoid building solid positions and using good trigger control potential "training scars" from a poor approach to precision rifle competition. Those things are all tools that are necessary to be competitive at a high level in PRS (less so in Hunter or team matches) but they can become crutches. Also, a lot of guys who only shoot PRS can be lazy about other parts of basic rifle craft, such as ranging targets for themselves (they just use the ranges provided) or making wind calls (they rely on asking other squad members).

Now that makes a huge amount of sense. Thanks

 

[clcustom1911]

Dude... what is the issue here? Why the combativeness? Who hurt you?

@308pirate has his standard operating procedures. I enjoy it.

Some think it ain't be like that. But it do.

 

[SanPatHogger]

I shot my first comptition almost exactly 4 years ago. The things that you might call "training scars" I think actually make me better. Texas Carbine and USPSA share the same safety rules. All guns are cold/clear. You only load up when the RO says "load and make ready". After you shoot you "unload and show clear" then holster up the pistol. The carbine gets similar treatment, unload and show clear, then drop the bolt, pull the trigger and close the dust cover. I like these rules. When I go for a hike to scout for hogs I do these same things. I jump the front gate and then load up and make ready. I go for a hike and then when I get back to the front gate I unload and show clear, even when I am by myself.

My personal defense pistol is always loaded and chambered with the safety on and in a holster. House guns are loaded, chambered and have the safety on. Treat every gun like it is loaded. Lots of guns have the safety in a different place and operate a little different, but they all share one safety, the one between your ears.

One thing that bothers me at the local rimfire PRS style match is that they want your bolt open when not on the line. Down here in south texas the wind blows a lot and there is always dirt and dust blowing around. Being that the USPSA rules are so simple and easy why can't we adopt the same rules? I would like to be able to drop the mag, show a clear chamber, close the bolt and pull the trigger, now the gun is cold. Instead of a chamber flag or something going through the mag well and keeping the bolt open, why can't we have a piece of neon orange velcro to wrap around the action of the rifle? I totally get having a clear chamber and no mag, that is the way it should be. But I also don't like dirt in my gun.

 

[Holliday]

I like to use chamber flags on the bench at the range. It's not for me. It's for the RSOs, who may be tempted to finger-fuck my guns trying to figure out if they're clear for the range to go cold. With the chamber flags, it's super-obvious, and the RSO moves on.

I am an RSO at our range. When the range goes “cold”, chamber flags are required and no one is allowed to touch a firearm until the range goes “hot”. We have flags available for folks who do not bring or forget them.

 

[Holliday]

-After reloading, picking up an empty magazine as soon as it hits the ground.

-Not letting an empty magazine fall free because you dont want to damage it.

-Failure to properly perform immediate action or remedial action for a malfunction/stoppage.

these actions (and other similar ones) occur when you have a mindset of "you're just at a range practicing". Mindset is key. You're there to train/practice for real shit.

My brother pulled his paddle holster with his handgun and stood their looking at it. I said “let me see that”, swiped the holster into the dirt and fired into the target. “Training opportunity!!” I said and handed back to him, as he was cleaning the mud off his holster…..