Night Vision Trijicon Electro Optics Military Grade?

[GUNENTHUSIAST]

Hey guys,

What is the general consensus on the ruggedness of the Trijicon products. I was looking at a FLIR t70 a couple years ago, but couldn't get the funds together at the time. Are these Trijicons military grade like the t70 or are they a more consumer grade optic? The price makes it a lot more doable than the t70 or t75, but I am concerned there is a reason for the difference. Thanks for any help you can provide!

 

[SkyScrapin]

They're kick ass optics with what I would call, kick ass support. Don't hesitate.
That said, I'm interested in the NVision line-up, especially with a 5 year warranty over the Triji 3 year. It's also slightly less, but the kicker is the non-metallic housing. Even still, I highly doubt hat will be an issue, but for me.. I'm waiting a year to see how things pan out. If your in a rush, get a Triji and don't look back.

 

[wigwamitus]

They are consumer grade ... not military grade ... though the cores are military grade. That said, they are "high end" consumer grade ... most military grade thermals are $10k to $20k for new ones ... at least the ones we can buy ...

 

[GUNENTHUSIAST]

Thanks for the responses so far. It seems they no doubt make a good product. I have several of Trijicon's traditional mil spec optics and would trust them with my life. With Trijicon's background I was thinking/hoping their elecro optics would be military grade as well. My acog and vcog surely are. If I am wanting something like a REAP IR, but want to step up to a military grade optic what product or products should I be looking at? Is the LWTS and T70/75 still the standard as they were a few years ago? Anything better out now? I could stretch to 10-12k if it was no doubt worth it over the 8k for the REAP IR.

 

[Frog05]

I have no experience with the mil grade optics but I have ran a Reap 35mm and Mk3 60mm and they are built like tanks. I’m pretty new to the thermal world but I have yet to see too many people complain about their Trijicons not holding up to abuse.

 

[wigwamitus]

Well, the new entry in the commercially available (barely) military thermal clipons is the LWTS-LR ... there is a separate thread all about that ... which you should be able to find either on the first or second page of this sub-forum ... it is still "active'. These units were announced at SHOT 2019.
With 2x optical magnification, you put them in 0.5x digital to get 1x net magnification for us as a clipon. That gets you a solid 8x magnification on the day scope ... with squeezing up to 10x or even 12x depending on situation a tolerance for fuzzy.

The street price is around $15k. The issue is availability. If you are interested, read that thread and PM DownRangeThermal and go from there.

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The BAE Oasys line are pretty hard to come by ... so much so we might call them "unobtainium" ... at this point ... though Trijicon did purchase license to restart manufacturing of this line. Not much new came out of SHOT except as regards the SKEET-IR. I was stated those were "2 months out". The Skeet will be a direct competitor to the IR-Patrol which it might even replace. These Skeets are half the size and weight of the Patrols among their advantages. No price was stated. The original BAE Skeets listed for $18,800 though the shown prices were around $14k.

==

The LWTS are still around ... street prices for used ones are said to be around $6,500. Those get you 4x to 6x on the day scope depending on conditions and tolerance for fuzzy.

==

The new commercial line are the N-VIsion Optics HALOs which are direct competitors to the Trijicons ... and even share the same cores and rear ends. There is a long thread about them on the 1st two pages as well.

==

Late last year Trijicon released the REAP-2 line which includes 19mm, 35mn and 60mm units. The big plus is the vertical battery compartment replacing the inline battery compartment. This should help aleviate some issues with recoil shut off. And this feature makes the REAP-2s more "military grade-like" ...

==

That's about it for news on the Thermal front. As to NV clipons .. the refurb PVS-30s are still around ... the big truck load of SIMRADS that were available for awhile seem to have dissipated, but they pop up for sale now and then. I sold both of my PVS-30s and got a SIMRAD k253 ... smaller and lighter ... and a great image ... and supports up to 12x before reaching into the fuzz zone. The other good thing about the SIMRADs is they go for between $1,200 and $2,200 ... also known as PVS-9 (or 9a for the 253).

 

[wigwamitus]

BTW, for the OP, the Trijicon thermals used to be known as "IR Defense" ... which was, in part, a spin off of ATN. They were very successful with the Mk2 hunters and IR-Patrols (and the ReAP-1s) and Trijicon bought them about 2.5 years ago. Trijicon has pretty much left them alone and they have continued to flourish. The use of the BAE cores has given them an advantage over the other commercial players.

 

[Ravenworks]

Just an FYI,you can rent optics for 3 days and the fee goes towards purchase.
Ultimate Night Vision
https://www.ultimatenightvision.com/Rentals-s/1820.htm

 

[Killswitch Engage]

They are consumer grade ... not military grade ... though the cores are military grade. That said, they are "high end" consumer grade ... most military grade thermals are $10k to $20k for new ones ... at least the ones we can buy ...

you do realize "military grade" thermals are $10-30k because .gov toilet seats are $400 and hammers are $200 right? aside of some really sophisticated optics in the gov arsenal everything about a trijicon would be "military grade" if they jumped through the hoops of testing, proofing and certification then solicitation. after all that shit a reap would be $18,000.....

 

[GUNENTHUSIAST]

Thanks a bunch for all the good info!

 

[GUNENTHUSIAST]

So if you had to choose between a new Reap v2 IR or a used LWTS for the same price what would you guys pick and why? I’m going round in circles. Best prices I’m seeing on used LWTS is 8k+. I want to buy this and keep/use it for a long time so longevity and product support are my top priority. This will occasionally find it’s way to my law enforcement duties as well so I need to be able to bet my life on it.

Thanks!

 

[Hootiewho]

What do you plan on doing with it?

In LE 99% of the time it will be used in a scanning/searching mode. I just responded to another thread on ARF about thermals. Something like the SkeetIR has a lot going for it. For duty use it is small enough to go in a pocked and be halfway safe if you are searching for a perp and have to go hands on after finding him. You can head mount it, weapon mount it, use it as a clip on or scope. It can be used in a COTI role and has a laser. Unless you just need a clip on for a precision rifle, and you’ll be better suited in LE with a NVG clip on, I would but a multiuse thermal first, then maybe down the road get a dedicated weapon one. If you are riding around in a cruiser scanning woods and fields, something easy to use one handed is pretty awesome.

Some pics I just posted of my UTMx in clip on role with CQBSS.

 

[deersniper]

What do you plan on doing with it?

In LE 99% of the time it will be used in a scanning/searching mode. I just responded to another thread on ARF about thermals. Something like the SkeetIR has a lot going for it. For duty use it is small enough to go in a pocked and be halfway safe if you are searching for a perp and have to go hands on after finding him. You can head mount it, weapon mount it, use it as a clip on or scope. It can be used in a COTI role and has a laser. Unless you just need a clip on for a precision rifle, and you’ll be better suited in LE with a NVG clip on, I would but a multiuse thermal first, then maybe down the road get a dedicated weapon one. If you are riding around in a cruiser scanning woods and fields, something easy to use one handed is pretty awesome.

Some pics I just posted of my UTMx in clip on role with CQBSS.

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How well do you find the utm holding zero? Are you using the stock mount or a custom one off solid mount? Thanks

 

[Hogrider2000]

there is a thread started by DownRangethermal advertising NEW LWTS for under 10K. Innthe optics for sale section.

 

[79steeler]

If I was law enforcement I would want to be able to identify my perp, I don't think thermal is what you want. I'm thinking night vision, like a PVS 14, or Knights Armament PVS 30 clip on??? This would give you facial recognition ability.

 

[j-huskey]

So if you had to choose between a new Reap v2 IR or a used LWTS for the same price what would you guys pick and why? I’m going round in circles. Best prices I’m seeing on used LWTS is 8k+. I want to buy this and keep/use it for a long time so longevity and product support are my top priority. This will occasionally find it’s way to my law enforcement duties as well so I need to be able to bet my life on it.

Thanks!

UNLESS u want a clip on thermal to go in front of a day optic..

New reap bc new core, warranty, and updates.... AND service......
I have both reap and lwts. Cant tell much difference in performance and a bunch of lwts are out of warranty and service is somewhat lacking.

And I have 38 years in LE, rode a sniper rifle 16, and have looked at a bunch of people in both nv and thermal....

Both have good points and bad. NV cannot see a target in a hole, like a man in a deep hallway, but a thermal can. NV cant find a man in bushes, but a thermal can....
There are distance limits to facial ID with NV and sometimes the light isnt there, and when you turn on an illuminator, there are times highly reflective surfaces btw u and target blind you.

Tactics with a trained team and thermal will win over NV even in LE...

Ymmv depending on your training and real world experience with both systems.

 

[j-huskey]

Recently we had an officer killed and two shot, by a mil trained individual, who left his residence and hid behind residences and in wooded areas in between. Several of the responding officers have multiple combat tours and experience with nv units, in combat... btw streetlights, utility lights, motion lights, and reflective surfaces, pvs14's and clip on pvs22's were boarhog tit useless. Thermal was an absolute necessity. Couple of officers have bought thermal since at great personal expense and the agencies have approached their resident consultant on which thermal units to buy...
Suck ass situation..... NV was useless that night.

 

[Strykervet]

Depending on what you need it for, your budget and what not, there's a fellow with a FLIR T50/Trijicon ACTS for $3500 IIRC. They still sell for $10k new, at least on one site I looked at. You'll be restricted to low mag but it does have a digital 2x and 4x zoom. Worth checking out I guess. It shines best when paired up with an Acog as that's what it was designed for, but I guess any 1-4 or 1-6 mounted at 1.53 or so will work. They're not as forgiving as, say, a PVS 30 where it can be off center or canted and still work fine.

Worth a look though because if it will fit your purpose or you can make it work somehow, $3500 for thermal ain't bad. And it's a compact unit too. Mostly designed for a fighting rifle, I suppose it'd be great at hunting hogs, etc. too.

PM me and I can put you in contact with the guy. I've seen and used the device he has so I can vouche for it being in excellent shape and all. Very little use, he just doesn't have a use for it and I think he's liquidating all his NV gear, or a good deal of it.