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Tripod setup for actual LEO sniper use.

Shooter606

Private
Minuteman
Oct 7, 2008
18
0
40
East Tennessee
So I have been issued my 700 police and leupold spotting scope and a 1980’s Walmart tripod....So I’m getting my kit together on a cops budget. With that said the RRS gear is out of budget! I’m looking at the HOG saddle and the shadow tech pig tripod thinking a direct mount (hog to tripod) might work. I’m trying to stay as light as possible so here is the question, should I go direct mount or leveling base/ ball head? Also is the manfroto pistol grip head and viable option these days? I have zero experience with tripods and I can’t afford to buy something that will not last. All advise and donations will be accepted lol
 
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And this is worth reading.
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Most shooters new to tripod shooting prefer the use of a ball head. The direct mount method is a little more stable but takes some practice.
I would recommend the GNN FB-52 ball head over the Manfrotto grip action head. The GNN FB-52 has a higher 44lbs load rating, pans smoother and uses arca-swiss attachments.
The federal HRT guys are currently running the PIG Saddle, GNN FB-52 ball head, and PIG0311-G field tripod with very effective results.
(the PIG Saddle direct mount to the PIG0311-G tripod is the best bang for the buck)
Hit me up with any questions or about our government sales program.
 
im a direct mount guy these days. ive used about everything including the redneck pvc and isomat saddle ^... going direct mount arca is awesome. being able to go hands free off the gun in a observation/hide environment would be a must i feel. for budget conscious id do the pig0311 and the best ball head you can afford, sunwayfoto, desmond are couple that arent terribly expensive,

depending on your stock set up and whether or not you are permitted to modify as needed going direct may not be an option for you, if that's the case go pig saddle.
 
I still have the original Hog Saddle, Mafrotto tripod and ballhead I originally tested years ago, which we adopted. Obviously, the tripods have advanced significantly, as have the mounting options. I use a Feisol 3372, RRS leveling base, and dovetail adapter on my rifle now, but as with all things issued, you have to hold onto them until the end of time lol. I haven't tried the PIG tripod, but knowing the guys at Shadow Tech, and reading some of the reviews, It looks like it's a very cost-efficient way to get into a tripod.
 
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The leophoto tripod, this Desmond leveller, and a pig saddle was very hard to beat.
 
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Manfrotto and manfrotto grip head. I find it too easy to get loose, and if your rifle is too heavy, you can "cant" it really quick, and if on unlevel surfaces, if you cant it, and lose it sideways, you can dump the system on the ground.

Which is why I showed leofoto and Desmond, suggesting that and pig saddle.
 
I have the Leofoto 404 with ball head and arca rail. Very worth the price. There is a smaller size as well. I talked to a guy at sandsockgear and he got me a killer deal.
 
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Most shooters new to tripod shooting prefer the use of a ball head. The direct mount method is a little more stable but takes some practice.
I would recommend the GNN FB-52 ball head over the Manfrotto grip action head. The GNN FB-52 has a higher 44lbs load rating, pans smoother and uses arca-swiss attachments.
The federal HRT guys are currently running the PIG Saddle, GNN FB-52 ball head, and PIG0311-G field tripod with very effective results.
(the PIG Saddle direct mount to the PIG0311-G tripod is the best bang for the buck)
Hit me up with any questions or about our government sales program.


Is the below picture the FBI system you speak of ?
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$650 would be the limit I was looking at about $500 for saddle and tripod and the rest for the ball head. I have a little extra security gig money coming in so I might be able to squeeze some more blood out of the rock!
Small question, is $650.00 within budget ?
 
I have a brand new NightForce carbon fiber tripod with NightForce ball head and a brand new pig saddle. $500 cash buys it
 
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$650 would be the limit I was looking at about $500 for saddle and tripod and the rest for the ball head. I have a little extra security gig money coming in so I might be able to squeeze some more blood out of the rock!

C.K. Arms, Camilla Ga, will sell you the setup, leofoto LN364C, the Desmond 75mm adapter, and a c.k. saddle that's real close to a hogsaddle.

Accurate Ordnance in Winder, Ga, same tripod setup, close to same $.

But, I think you need to PM AMTeam4 and let him give you a quote.

Best to you.
 
$650 would be the limit I was looking at about $500 for saddle and tripod and the rest for the ball head. I have a little extra security gig money coming in so I might be able to squeeze some more blood out of the rock!
I don’t know why you haven’t contacted @AMTeam4 his setup is the best bang for your buck. Hands down.
 
So why do people not prefer the use of a standard picatinny mount? My Alamo 4 Star has this and it's fast and secure, so tell me what I'm missing.
 
The PiG saddle and tripod that is mentioned above is a very workable solution, just a bit heavy. I would absolutely go direct mount, and skip the cost and weight of a ball head. It is not difficult to use at all.
As the saying goes: light, stable, cheap, pick two.

Aside from that, I am of the opinion that every LE sniper should deploy with a tripod. I find mine to be incredibly useful.
 
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The PiG saddle and tripod that is mentioned above is a very workable solution, just a bit heavy. I would absolutely go direct mount, and skip the cost and weight of a ball head. It is not difficult to use at all.
As the saying goes: light, stable, cheap, pick two.

Aside from that, I am of the opinion that every LE sniper should deploy with a tripod. I find mine to be incredibly useful.

I completely agree. Shots taken from prone are very rare. If you go direct mount do you have to adjust the leg height to get your angle?
 
I second that question. How adjustable is the direct mount? As in, can you swivel/move the rifle effectively with good stability?
 
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I only need to adjust the legs for extreme angles. Most angles can be handled by loosening the saddle and pivoting the gun butt up or down. I swivel by turning the whole saddle on the apex.

An anvil 30 is definitely superior, but the overall effect works well either way.
 
The PiG saddle and tripod that is mentioned above is a very workable solution, just a bit heavy. I would absolutely go direct mount, and skip the cost and weight of a ball head. It is not difficult to use at all.
As the saying goes: light, stable, cheap, pick two.

Aside from that, I am of the opinion that every LE sniper should deploy with a tripod. I find mine to be incredibly useful.
It’s heavy, but the TD not like you are humming it across the Stan. Maybe a couple flights of stairs
 
For a direct mount, it's hard to beat the stability of a leveling base (plus Arca rifle rail) and the flexibility to pan on target without moving the tripod or a pig saddle. I have the older RRS B-55 ball head, their universal leveling base (TA-U-LC) and a PIG saddle. The direct attach is more stable than PIG saddle (by far), and the leveling base is the more stable of the two (old ballhead and leveling base). I have not used the new Anvil 30, so can't comment on that.

The direct attachment via Arca rail, also allows better positioning of the rifle on the tripod (which cant always be at the balance point where a pic rail is attached to the stock, if not running an Arca rail). This is important, because depending where that pic rail is mounted to the rifle and tripod, it may or may not impact your ability to change mags if you happen to pan over, with the stock/mag well sitting right over one of the legs (essentially blocking you from doing a mag change without having to move the rifle over, away from a leg, to allow the magazine to fall free, and a new one to be rocked into the mag port).

I've spent a lot of time shooting off a tripod (granted it was shooting prairie dogs for weeks at a time, and not on overwatch) in both seated and standing positions. And when your covering a wide swath of ground with your rifle, and engaging multiple targets under time constraints, it helps to be able to slide the rifle back off the tripod mount without taking it too far off target, so that you can either change mags or swing/pan the rifle across an arc without the mag snagging one of the legs.

JMTCW...
 
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Note how the rifle is slid back on the rail here, so that the protruding magazine is away from the tripod legs to allow panning across the field. If a pic rail/Arca adapter was used (and attached too close to the mag well), I'd be stuck having to move the rifle off target to change mags. Here, in the pic, you can see I have the rifle far back enough off the leveling base to allow mag changes and panning past the legs, but still fairly close enough to the balance point. The low profile of the leveling base is what gets you that increased stability, but really makes you have to consider where you attach a pic rail if that is what you are going to use to marry the rifle to an Arca mount such as a leveling base or ball head. Hence why full Arca rails are a no brainer for most folks.

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And no comments from hic28 or Nolegs24 about the camo...(you buddy fuckers). :)
 
Note how the rifle is slid back on the rail here, so that the protruding magazine is away from the tripod legs to allow panning across the field. If a pic rail/Arca adapter was used (and attached too close to the mag well), I'd be stuck having to move the rifle off target to change mags. Here, in the pic, you can see I have the rifle far back enough off the leveling base to allow mag changes and panning past the legs, but still fairly close enough to the balance point. The low profile of the leveling base is what gets you that increased stability, but really makes you have to consider where you attach a pic rail if that is what you are going to use to marry the rifle to an Arca mount such as a leveling base or ball head. Hence why full Arca rails are a no brainer for most folks.

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And no comments from hic28 or Nolegs24 about the camo...(you buddy fuckers). :)
Crye multicam master race checking in
 
What up @ j-huskey !
Hope you and yours are well.
I would like your and other's opinions of my own opinion below.

Specifically within the context of this thread's title (not general use like PRS and varmint hunting), I have the opinion that an agency or individual officer looking to purchase a tripod setup should stay away from any of the Leveling Heads.

Leveling heads are more simple, less expensive, weigh less and sometimes faster to get on target compared to most ball heads but in my opinion the fact that they are limited to a fairly narrow window of vertical take them off the list of choices.

Purchasing a tripod setup for Law Enforcement use is justified by the many benefits a good system can offer. The flexibility to deploy the tripod in elevated positions looking down (ball games, parades, protests, rallies, concerts, festivals, etc.) is one of the biggest benefits.

Having the ability to also rapidly deploy on low ground to aim at or cover elevated positions (balcony, water tower, roof tops, etc.) should also be practiced and be included in the initial purchase justifications.

Basically the tripod should allow the officer advantages in all 3-D / vertically offset environments. My opinion is that leveling heads neuter a lot of the potential for tripods in Law Enforcement.

Thoughts?

./
 
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A lot of good information. I'm also currently trying to wade through all the options. Thanks guys
 
What up j-huskey! Hope you and yours are well.
I would like your and other's opinions of my own opinion below.

Specifically within the context of this thread's title (not general use like PRS and varmint hunting), I have the opinion that an agency or individual officer looking to purchase a tripod setup should stay away from any of the Leveling Heads.

Leveling heads are more simple, less expensive, weigh less and sometimes faster to get on target compared to most ball heads but in my opinion the fact that they are limited to a fairly narrow window of vertical take them off the list of choices.

Purchasing a tripod setup for Law Enforcement use is justified by the many benefits a good system can offer. The flexibility to deploy the tripod in elevated positions looking down (ball games, parades, protests, rallies, concerts, festivals, etc.) is one of the biggest benefits.

Having the ability to also rapidly deploy on low ground to aim at or cover elevated positions (balcony, water tower, roof tops, etc.) should also be practiced and be included in the initial purchase justifications.

Basically the tripod should allow the officer advantages in all 3-D / vertically offset environments. My opinion is that leveling heads neuter a lot of the potential for tripods in Law Enforcement.

Thoughts?

./
I think you’d be surprised as to how much movement you actually get out of say an RRS leveling base. I would encourage @MPHReallyRightStuff to chime in and show us what their level bases are capable of.

I do believe though the anvil is a good compromise of both.
 
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I think you’d be surprised as to how much movement you actually get out of say an RRS leveling base. I would encourage @MPHReallyRightStuff to chime in and show us what their level bases are capable of.

I do believe though the anvil is a good compromise of both.

With respect, No surprises here. Personal experience says they are a no-go.
I have 2 RRS setups and access to a 3rd. I have leveling bases and ball heads for all 3.


We use the shit out of them during sniper classes and often UPS them to others for use in their classes. All have been loaned to agencies needing last minute help with logistics covering high density crowd events.

I love the leveling heads and prefer them on semi-level terrain. I also know positively that they cannot operate downtown, in stadiums, etc.

./
 
With respect, No surprises here. Personal experience says they are a no-go.
I have 2 RRS setups and access to a 3rd. I have leveling bases and ball heads for all 3.


We use the shit out of them during sniper classes and often UPS them to others for use in their classes. All have been loaned to agencies needing last minute help with logistics covering high density crowd events.

I love the leveling heads and prefer them on semi-level terrain. I also know positively that they cannot operate downtown, in stadiums, etc.

./
In stadiums I agree 1000. They don’t have that kind of travel. A spec rest is better suited for that.
 
There seems to be a major exodus away from the SpecRest in the circles we come in contact with.

The weight and mass of it is a no-go for general use and availability as part of your standard kit. Pretty much takes an extra person to bring it on location. The versatility of setup location for the SpecRest is very limited compared to new generation tripods.

In addition to that, most feel that is is no more stable than a solid tripod system along the lines of RRS and others.
 
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There seems to be a major exodus away from the SpecRest in the circles we come in contact with.

The weight and mass of it is a no-go for general use and availability as part of you standard kit. Pretty much takes an extra person to bring it on location. The versatility of setup location for the SpecRest is very limited compared to new generation tripods.

In addition to that, most feel that is is no more stable than a solid tripod system along the lines of RRS and others.
Big and clunky for sure. As with anything there is no perfect tool for every call out. You either compromise on something or you have a trunk full of shit that covers everything.
 
Can do both as well (google image not mine)

View attachment 6938724

Why would anyone use both even if they had a million dollars?

Stacking a ball head on a leveling base gets you zero additional vertical coverage.
....... it puts your rifle even higher over the apex of the legs = less stability/higher CG with nothing positive in return.
........ it is just begging for something else to come loose at the wrong time.
Stacking a ball head on a leveling base with the lower handle length as shown is just limiting your ability to take the rifle low if needed (long handle underneath plus extra crap stacked vertically between base and rifle)

./
 
@Terry Cross ,

You and I go back a long way... ?
Back when the Brits and usmc taught us to cut bamboo or use broom handles, mop handles, and arrow shafts with 550 cord and duct tape.......

Then we used cheap tripods and PVC pipe with foam or channel iron with carpet....

And the emphasis was physical control over the rifle and the ability to use it with two hands, two arms, and one body. And move to, react to, or direct to the target as needed, either on or off the tripod.
And in hide building or position building, any chair, couch, cushion, tuck, tripod, bipod, monopod, bag, sand bag, or body was an aid, not an integral part of the sniper and his rifle.

And then there was the hog/pig saddle concept of things, and where we are now.

The only self leveling heads I like are those with the drop handle off the bottom, like the Manfrotto 500ball, 100mm half ball, Gitzo GSLVLS, Gitzo 1321, Feisol LB7567, and the Desmond 75mm half bowl.
Reason, one hand loosens them in a natural position from under the rifle.

**I dislike them for the same reason you do, lack of ability to handle high angle, like from the scoreboard down on the field.**

Sure, with lots of training, you can loosen the bottom handle, and loosen the pig, and push the angle envelope, but this is a "loose" solution, and I "old school" the tight hold training of the sniper controlling the weapon.

The vertical head pic I posted earlier is something I've used, but its weak, easy to slip, easy to lose control of the weapon. I dont recommend it either.

Thing I'm using right now is a manfrotto MHXPRO-BHQ2 ball head, that I switch from the nikon 200-400 and 500mm lenses and the rifles. Those lenses cost way more than two rifles with glass... that ball head gives me angle, and the pig/hog single point adjuster let's me remove or readjust "some" angle of the rifle pretty quick.

Hope this was what u wanted.
Best to you, Brother!


CLEAN PIC:
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Why would anyone use both even if they had a million dollars?

Stacking a ball head on a leveling base gets you zero additional vertical coverage.
....... it puts your rifle even higher over the apex of the legs = less stability/higher CG with nothing positive in return.
........ it is just begging for something else to come loose at the wrong time.
Stacking a ball head on a leveling base with the lower handle length as shown is just limiting your ability to take the rifle low if needed (long handle underneath plus extra crap stacked vertically between base and rifle)

./
Not something I would do but just saying it COULD be done. These days i primarily use a center c tripod with a ball head and a hog saddle. I never raise the column and have it wrenchhso tight hopefully it never comes looses. I personally hate the center columns. But have yet to pony up for a nice rrs or leofoto or one of the others.
 
@Terry Cross ,

You and I go back a long way... ?
Back when the Brits and usmc taught us to cut bamboo or use broom handles, mop handles, and arrow shafts with 550 cord and duct tape.......

........
Hope this was what u wanted.
Best to you, Brother!

Yes sir. This is my thinking and thoughts that I continue to push out to officers at classes. Just wanted your sniff test on the basic premise.

If you or anybody important to you need anything from my direction, don't hesitate to get in touch. I hope we can see each other again before we are in the ground.

Be safe brother.

./
 
@Terry Cross Hey Terry. I have used the stack method a few times only for one reason. If you have to set your tripod up on un-even ground and your maxed on elevation in the legs, you use the leveling base to level the ballhead. Then you can get your reticle level and open up the independent pan feature of the ballhead and be able to pan 360 degree perfectly level. Used this situation looking at distance, when having to scan across the building roof tops that were all pretty much one story same height. When scanning 360 with just the ballhead or just leveling base you can induce cant in pretty easy. That is the only situation I have used it for.

There is a reason but pretty limited.

Only other reason I know of is the leveling base is not tool-less. You rush into a situation, setup and realize you need more elevation or the ability to use the drop notch with a spotter or camera and want to be able to switch back to rifle extremely quick.

My $.02
 
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@Terry Cross Hey Terry. I have used the stack method a few times only for one reason.

My $.02

Thanks for the input Mike. Your $.02 is always valued as you are pretty much THE collection center for how your own products are being used.

I considered what you are saying regarding the ability to pan in large arcs but again, keeping within the confines of the thread title, I just don't see this as a legit worry in L.E. deployments. At the same time, probably very valuable for PRS movers and varminting on flat ground.

Your wide scan is going to be done with optics other than weapon mounted. Once your area of concern is identified, that is usually involving a relatively small cone of focus. Even if you do need to quickly address another target area, there would likely be at least a small amount (probably more) of vertical adjustment needed as well which means breaking loose the ball head to reacquire anyway.

Even when training for movers we never train to track movers across large expanses and engage 5 times in one pass, etc.
We lock up on one end or the other and concentrate on 1 quality shot to kill it within a small arc of movement. Common thinking is that such a shot is going to be an "oh shit" moment where you need to handle before the target regains cover at the next building, vehicle, etc...

Keep up the great work. All of the RRS stuff is spot on.
I will probably be calling in the next few weeks to get schooled on how to convert the top end of our setups.

Be safe.


./
 
@Terry Cross completely agree with all you said. Just sharing one example where I have used it. Deployed during overwatch mission, we were watching a route with historied IEDs looking for spotters on rough tops along a road about a k along in which we were perpendicular. So we were scanning sectors often on the rifle.

Look forward to your call, will talk soon dude.

Edit: not law enforcement specific I know.
 
@AMTeam4 - Thank you! Great advice. I purchased the Pig Saddle and the tripod you suggested earlier this year, but I hadn’t yet purchased a ball head. Your advice above was just what I needed. Ball headed ordered and I hope to be shoot that rig this weekend!

Thanks, again!!
 
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