Advanced Marksmanship Trouble Shooting Prone

[CMH]

Looking for some help/advice here. I have a 22 trainer I have been shooting off the bench for about a month now. I am primarily shooting at 50 yards. I have shot a number of targets/setups with it and have gotten consistently good results off the bench - most (but not all) 5-shot groups with match ammo are 3/8" or less center to center. I have also been shooting the 11 bullseye 50 foot air rifle targets at 50 yards as dot drill variant which have also been to my satisfaction off the bench. The point is that off the bench the me/this rifle combination has shot to my satisfaction or better.

Recently I decided I wanted to shoot the Smack the Smiley (Snowflake) contest. Two weekends ago I setup my 4 targets and shot off the same setup I have on the bench - bipod with bunny ear rear bag, but prone. Results were OK, but my three shot groups were dismal for this rifle - I had 2 that were in excess of 3/4". So I shot it again this past weekend - shot a one hole (Not ragged - one clean round hole) 5 shot group from bench. Moved to prone and again results opened significantly. Moved from consistent 9-ring shooting from the bench to 7-ring shooting prone.

I have shot this gun enough to be convinced this is entirely me. However, I am not sure what to be working on. My breathing and trigger control feel the same to me as my bench shooting. But obviously I am doing something different. The position does not feel as comfortable to me, but rounds feel good when I send them, and crosshairs remain on target after the shot.

At this point, my plan is to continue to work on getting more comfortable in the prone position, but wanted to float this out there for review to see if there was any input on items that more experienced coach/instructor guys see. I know it is difficult without seeing me shoot, but figured it still wouldn't hurt to ask and try to draw on all the expertise here.

In case it matters, my setup:

Anschutz 1403 (Repeater)
NF 5.5-22
Badger Rings
Atlas V8
Solid bunny ear rear bag
Wolf Target ammo

Casey

 

[WhiskeyWebber]

Re: Trouble Shooting Prone

Do you notice any patterns to the prone groups?

 

[CMH]

Re: Trouble Shooting Prone

No discernable patterns that I noticed. 3 shot groups were triangular - 5 shot appeared random. No discernable vertical or horizontal stringing.

Casey

 

[WhiskeyWebber]

Re: Trouble Shooting Prone

triangular patterns can sometimes indicate parallax error

 

[WhiskeyWebber]

Re: Trouble Shooting Prone

if the reticle moves relative to the target as you move your head around then you have some parallax present that will need to be adjusted out. I adjust parallax for each position.

 

[CMH]

Re: Trouble Shooting Prone

I thought parallax was realtive to distance only. Will need to check next time I am out.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Trouble Shooting Prone

Be cognisant of the factors of a steady position as you build the position, making them consistent shot to shot. This will minimize perspective of aim issues. Also, when shouldering the rifle be sure to bring the stock to head rather than head to stock. Initially, doing this you will perceive that the rifle will be aimed too low but this will not be the case after the position is complete. In addition, build the position without any consideration for the target. Considering it while building the position, will cause you to steer the rifle with muscle to the target and yet NPA will still be somewhere off the target, which you may not recognize. Thing is, once you're on the target even using just a little muscle to stay right-in-there, your brain does not want to take you off target since you know the whole idea is to hit the target. By not considering the target as you build the position it's more certain NPA as well as sight will be somewhere off the target and therefore initial adjustment of NPA will be easier since your brain wants you to take the sights to the target instead of off it.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Trouble Shooting Prone

Your belief in parallax being related to distance is correct. But trusting the focus adjustment to properly correct parallax may create a false confidence.

While the two are related, and most scope manufacturers will combine the two factors in a single focus adjustment feature; there is no automatic assurance that these two factors were correctly correlated/linked at the factory.

When focus is off, it's pretty obvious just looking through the eyepiece; but incorrectly compensated parallax can be more subtle. The nod/wag exercise will tell if a good focus is not rendering a good parallax compensation. Sometimes one will need to sacrifice some focus sharpness to recorrect the parallax so the reticle and aiming point provide a stable 'sight weld'.

So why would this be a factor when converting from bench to prone?

Well, at the bench, the cheek weld might be sufficiently consistent that even if parallax is off, the more consistent cheek weld recreates the same reticle/aimpoint relationship well enough to result in very consistent POI's.

Bench shooting may be a lot more comfortable than prone. There could be enough inconsistencies in the prone's cheekweld that the consequences of incorrectly compensated parallax can become far more significant; especially if one is still getting their prone act togetehr.

It's easy enough to do the nod/wag test to check parallax compensation, and to refine the parallax if it needs doing.

IHMO, it needs checking/doing every time we first settle into our prone exercises.

Greg

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Trouble Shooting Prone

Everything Greg said is gospel. When going from the bench to anything else can be quite depressing but especially hopeless for a shooter who has had no basic marksmanship training from sandbag prone. The bench has it place but starting off, prone sandbag is a more desirable position for the beginner for a multitude of reasons.

 

[CMH]

Re: Trouble Shooting Prone

Thanks for all the advice. I appreciate the parallax explanation Greg becuse I was wondering why there would be a change from bench to prone - what you have said makes sense. I now have a couple of things to work on. I will see about putting them into practice on upcoming range trip and report back (and possibly solicit some more advice).

SS - I agree this was disappointing for me - I have shot a small amount of position shooitng when much younger - since then most of my range work has been off the bench. I guess the brightside is that I have a firm goal to work toward now as there is an obvious gap for improvement. Hopefully with advice from here I can make my practice more useful and a quicker learn.

Casey

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Trouble Shooting Prone

There is a sequence to resolving this, and it begins by finding your NPA and simply relaxing into it. Then refine your parallax compensation.

Then work on coordinating your sight picture and trigger release (softly, softly, wackee monkey...).

As the tempo smooths out, work on readjusting your lower body position side to side so the rifle returns more closely to the proper sight picture on its own as the effects of recoil subside.

Some can make that part work perfectly, some can't, but most can achieve real improvement.

Recoil is best accomodated by snugging the buttpad up to the shoulder so that when the rifle recoil starts, it's already delivering the recoil pulse to the body mass without any significant free motion.

The idea is get a good 'holt' and to go along for the ride, rather than intercepting the free recoiling mass of the rifle.

The reed that bends lasts longer than the rock that stands immobile.

No real muscle strain is either needed or wanted, just a gentle, definite marriage of rifle and shooter.

Greg

 

[CMH]

Re: Trouble Shooting Prone

I tried working with this advice yesterday. I checked parallax against where I was shooting last time and it passed the nod test. Building my position as suggested gave me a better overall feel - like I was not trying to muscle the rifle so much. I ran out of same targets I shot last time, but will keep a score record next time I am out and subsequent trips to see if I am improving or staying stagnant. With the position feeling better though it seems like I may be on the right track.

Casey