• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Rifle Scopes Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

mattmcg

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 19, 2007
867
2
CA
I'm putting together a tactical competition rig in 260 AI to shoot out to 1K. I'm almost there in making a decision on a USO SN3 22x scope but I'm hesitating pulling the trigger on it versus a 17x (of which I have experience with).

Why should I NOT GO with the 22x?
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

Unfortunately I'm an MOA guy.....

So why not a 22x?
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

No one ever missed and said, "I just had too good a sight picture." The more
detail I can see the more I can concentrate on a smaller focal point. Slows me down
but improves my shooting.
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

Depends on primary use. For a field rifle I'd stop at 17X.

I use a fixed 16X quite a bit, it's useable in close (but not optimum due to small FOV), awesome past 500 yards or so, easily bisects a 15" target at over 1800 yards.

I think fixed 22X would be pushing it too far for a field rifle. Too small FOV, and the mirage factor.
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Depends on primary use. For a field rifle I'd stop at 17X.

I use a fixed 16X quite a bit, it's useable in close (but not optimum due to small FOV), awesome past 500 yards or so, easily bisects a 15" target at over 1800 yards.

I think fixed 22X would be pushing it too far for a field rifle. Too small FOV, and the mirage factor. </div></div>

Nice feedback. I guess my question is, wouldn't you just dial it back from 22x to 17x to regain the equivalent FOV to a 17x?

And BTW, this is the variable SN3 3.8-22x versus the 3.2-17x that I'm deciding between.
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

I have SN-3's in 44mm 17X an 58mm 22X. The 17X will go before long for another 58mm 22x.
BTW both have the MDMOA reticals, with 1/2 Ereks. Best set up, I've ever owned, or used.
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hazardus</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Depends on primary use. For a field rifle I'd stop at 17X.

I use a fixed 16X quite a bit, it's useable in close (but not optimum due to small FOV), awesome past 500 yards or so, easily bisects a 15" target at over 1800 yards.

I think fixed 22X would be pushing it too far for a field rifle. Too small FOV, and the mirage factor. </div></div>

Nice feedback. I guess my question is, wouldn't you just dial it back from 22x to 17x to regain the equivalent FOV to a 17x?

And BTW, this is the variable SN3 3.8-22x versus the 3.2-17x that I'm deciding between. </div></div>


Yeah, my bust. I was thinking you were considering the STs, not SNs. I'd personally still favor the 44mm, but that's subjective.
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hazardus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why should I NOT GO with the 22x? </div></div>

To obtain T-Pal option.
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

I have a 3.2x17 and a 3.8x22. I prefer the 3.8x22. I am currently waiting for USO to finish my new 3.8x22 so I can replace my 3.2x17.
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

Anybody have an SN3 3.8-22x scope with MDMOA pics (zoomed in and out) that they can post?
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

I use the 17X TPAL and haven't encountered a situation where I'd wished for more magnification. I have a couple of 22X NF scopes and it's pretty rare that I ever feel like I need to dial down to less than 22X also. I think either will serve you well and as stated above, if you want the TPAL option (I like it) go with the 17X and if not grab a 22X.
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have the 17, wish I had got the 22... </div></div>
What can you do w/ a 22 that you can't w/ a 17 especially when there is mirage involved?
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hazardus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anybody have an SN3 3.8-22x scope with MDMOA pics (zoomed in and out) that they can post? </div></div>


No camera, sorry.
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have the 17, wish I had got the 22... </div></div>
What can you do w/ a 22 that you can't w/ a 17 especially when there is mirage involved? </div></div>

See .243 hits....
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

I think I may have the same issue with 6.5mm/264 at 1400yds... Gotta love the barrel burning speed of the 260 AI!
grin.gif
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

I went with the 3.2-17x because at some point you have to decide where to stop. Strapping the Hubble to my rifle just wasn't going to work with my mission requirements.

If I was just paper punching and not lugging the rifle around I would probably been inclined to give the 22x a try.

Hopefully in about 10 weeks I will be able to let you know how it works out.
wink.gif
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hazardus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anybody have an SN3 3.8-22x scope with MDMOA pics (zoomed in and out) that they can post? </div></div>
Give me a couple of days and I'll try to get you a few pictures.PM me Rich

This is from USO's Website
http://www.usoptics.com/upgradesD.php?recordID=RET-066
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

Hey Proteus, no need to trouble yourself. I actually found them elsewhere on the board.... First page on this thread had a great shot of the MDMOA non-illuminated (thin) reticle:
Looking through the reticle thread
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

So I'll tell you the reticle shots I would be most interested in....

I didn't realize the reticle thicknesses were different between the lit and non-lit versions of the MDMOA. Does anybody have any comparison shots of the non-lit vs lit at 17x?

From what I was told, the non-lit is .07 MOA thick versus the lit version at .125! That is quite a difference and frankly was trying to go the lit MDMOA route until i found out that wasn't an option and that it was thicker in the 17x SN3.
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

Coming to the end and about to make a decision on this. After shooting my SN3 3-17x this weekend, I can see how I could use a bit more power for sub .5" @ 100yd and always have the chance to dial it back when/if needed. I can see how 500+ yards will also benefit with smaller 6mm bullet holes. I also think an illuminated IPHY reticle is the way to go (I'm an MOA guy) so that leaves me with two reticle options, the MOA Scale Type 1 and the PCMOA. I feel the PCMOA with the .08 MOA thick crosshair should do well at 22x although the reticle itself is a little busier than I like.

Any opinions on if this sounds like a good way to go or should I consider another option? I'd go with the MDMOA reticle if it had an illuminated 22x option (thin version) but doesn't look like that is going to happen.
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

The "Unlit" version can still be lit, as mine is.
It just does not show up as well as the thicker one.
You can still see the reticle in those times you need to light it.

They can add the lighting components to any scope as far as I know.
It's just that some reticles do a better job of lighting up than others, better suited.
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why not the MDMOA? </div></div>

Yeah, I like the MDMOA reticle but it only "officially" comes unlit as the 22x requires the thin version (.07 IPHY thick). As for what Rafael said, you can get it lit but the reticle is not designed to be lit so there is some shadowing in the reticle (you need an etched reticle to be properly lit from what I understand). The PCMOA crosshairs are .08 IPHY thick and conducive to 22x.

If I wanted to go lit MDMOA, I'd have to go with a 17x instead which would be .125 IPHY thick. That is just a bit too thick in my book for paper punching.

In looking at all of the tradeoffs, the lit PCMOA is the best "compromise" for an IPHY 22x from what I can tell. Secretly, I'm hoping that USO does a CMG IPHY lit reticle as that would be the best of all worlds. I also know there are some custom reticles out there that I was hoping someone might suggest as well.... Just don't know where to look.
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

I would reccommend the Pcmoa for a 3.8x22. At higher magnification the reticle is still thin and would work well for sub .5" groups @ 100 yards.
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

Yes, both email and phone. I've been told but the only illuminated IPHY reticles in the 3.8-22x scopes are the MOA Scale Type 1 and the PCMOA. Do you know anything different?
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

Are you sure illumination is that big of an issue for you? I mean, do you have illuminated scopes that you find yourself using it frequently?

I ask b/c I personally have never used the illumination in any of my scopes...
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

Illumination is kind of like having a 22X; it's nice to have but use it rarely! Illumination is actually more useful in a tactical situation then a 22X.
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

To me it's just a nifty gadget that I MAY use one day...

Next scope I order will not have it.
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hazardus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, both email and phone. I've been told but the only illuminated IPHY reticles in the 3.8-22x scopes are the MOA Scale Type 1 and the PCMOA. Do you know anything different? </div></div>
No, sir. I am not very up on which reticles are available in which scope.

As the others said, you may not need it.
The only time I ever needed/used it was the pre-dawn opening shot at ASC Winter-2007.
I could see the reticle but my action froze up, as many did that morning, so I really didn't need it after all.
laugh.gif


 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

My opinion is probably worth exactly what I charge for it, so here goes.

22X illuminated Ergo obj 44mm.

I don't know if Vu and Mark run precision paper targets, but for comps you need to be able to identify targets. TPRC09 here in Phx (that many CA shooters attended) had targets that had you identifying shapes and playing cards at 100 yards. Keep in mind the playing cards were about 1.5" color reductions of cards, making target identification VERY tough. Try finding a 1" octogon inside a 1.25" circle under the clock sometime-its surprising how much the 1" circle inside the 1.25" octogon right next to it looks just the same, and keep in mind the wrong target is usually minus points.
I run a SN317X and found myself wishing it were a 22X.

For the same reason, the Tpal is not necessarily the way to go, as anectdotally the Ergo is a clearer (less lenses) picture. Objective size in the USO's is preference, my ST10 with a 37mm Ergo objective is (to my MKI ModI eyeball) as clear if not clearer than my SN3.

For comps you may find yourself missing illumination if you choose to forgo it now. If you don't get illumination, have them build the body so it can be added later (don't think it costs much different). We do night stages and just a touch of illum makes a big difference.

For those that talk about mirage on high magnification scopes, my train of thought is just the opposite of most. Personally if I can dial up and read mirage for wind doping purposes that's a huge plus, not as minus in my book.

Like I said, just my opinions, take 'em for what they are worth. You said "for comps" not "for hitting COM on bad guys at 1K" so that's what I respond to. I don't have any fancy moa pice, mine are just plain jane Type 1 moa reticles......
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

Nice feedback Sobrbiker..... Appreciate it.
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hazardus</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, both email and phone. I've been told but the only illuminated IPHY reticles in the 3.8-22x scopes are the MOA Scale Type 1 and the PCMOA. Do you know anything different? </div></div>

and I'd trust USO's answer to that one more than anyone elses...........
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

I'm going to order an SN-3 soon and am also debating a few things, mainly 22x or 17x (also 58mm vs 44mm). From what I understand if you step up to the 22x you will lose elevation travel providing tube diameter is not increased, my question is how much is lost?
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

You need the 22x because some tactical matches have those diabolical tiny playing cards you have to identify!...If you shoot the wrong card by accident it's -20 for each one and your screwed.I bet you can guess how I know this as fact!LOL

Steve
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

I would choose the 22 magnification due to the simple fact that its there whenever you will wish that you needed it.
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

the rdpmoa by hateca is just the ticket for paper punching the reticle doesnt bisect in the middle cluttering your target
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

I use both the 3.2-17X44 and 3.8-22X58, I prefer the 3.2-17. Even shooting 1000 yd. F-class the 22 is seldom above 18 power. The 17 is not a small scope but it's more compact than the 22, with less weight of course. Both are Type 1 moa scale with 1/2 moa elevation and 1/4 wind. I would guess I use the 17 power 3 times as much as the 22 power scope.
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ol Rob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My 22X sn-3 has 88 MOA with the 35mm tube. </div></div>

I wonder how much less that would be with a 30mm tube?
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

As an optic, the 22x SN-3 is the better choice because you can always dial it down to whatever magnification is useable, if there is mirage for example. Only you can decide whether it's physically too large; if your rifle has a 25" barrel or longer, it won't look too large`IMO. Are you gonna carry it around?

As a suggestion, go for a 35mm tube if you go 22x. It will give you more up elevation and it looks better with the longer scope.
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

the only difference here besides the amount of magnification id personal preference. that's it. i went with x22 just because i wanted more mag. just get what u want
 
Re: Trying to make a decision.... 17x or 22x USO

Picked mine up today! So excited... Don't even have a rifle to put it on...

I got the SN3 3.8-22 mil/mil.


USO52109008.jpg