Well about to get my original Vudoo rebarreled and going with a Bartlein 1.2” barrel at 22” but debating on whether to get a tuner or not. Guys with straight contour barrels and tuners have you found they work or is the contour too heavy? Looking at the EC V2 tuner. Thanks for any info.
- Thread starter Rob01
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I can’t speak for everyone but locally there’s a group of 22 shooters that run nothing but straight barrels at 1.25”. No one is running a tuner, myself included. I guess you can have it threaded anyway with a seamless protector.
I think it really comes down to balance. Being able to plop a rifle down on a gamechanger and have it just sit there does help a bit with improving the wobble. And to do that w/o having your bipod attached to the front of your chassis means you're going to need a heavier barrel. And then it depends on what chassis you run. And how heavy your scope is.
I have a matrix pro, that will not balance at all unless I put a 1.2 straight in. I have another rifle that balances with a 1.0 straight, but requires some fore-end weights. It's sitting in an XLR Envy Pro. Sits at 17lbs fully balanced. The matrix pro requiring the 1.2 straight sits at 21#.
I am not sure about the EC tuner v2 on a 1.2 straight, but I figure it doesn't hurt it, so why not have it on there.
I have a matrix pro, that will not balance at all unless I put a 1.2 straight in. I have another rifle that balances with a 1.0 straight, but requires some fore-end weights. It's sitting in an XLR Envy Pro. Sits at 17lbs fully balanced. The matrix pro requiring the 1.2 straight sits at 21#.
I am not sure about the EC tuner v2 on a 1.2 straight, but I figure it doesn't hurt it, so why not have it on there.
A thinner barrel moves more than a 1.2" barrel, and is more likely to respond to a tuner. See how it shoots before you put a tuner on.
I have a 1.25 23.5" straight. V1 EC Tuner. You can see it do its job.
I tune at 100y. then tweak it at 200y.
I tune at 100y. then tweak it at 200y.
Thanks. That's what I was wondering as I know they work better with thinner contour barrels as they effect the harmonics more but was wondering if they still would with a heavier barrel. Still 50/50 on it but have a little time until the blanks come in to figure it out.
If anyone else has any experience with tuners on a straight contour barrel let me know.
Yeah I am already getting the 1.2" barrel but wasn't sure about the tuner. It will all balance out fine when I have it set up but not sure if a tuner will help or not and worth the extra money on that rifle.
I contemplated that too.. the effort to send it in and get it threaded later just ended up being more of a hassle then the $155 up front now.
A friend of mine got Vudoo built by DI precision, It has a 24" 1.2" 13tw barrel. It came with a EC V2 tuner, threaded to the barrel, not using a adaptor. It shoots lights out.
I have a Shilen Ratchet with taper down to .900. I think. Has EC Tuner threaded barrel at 3/4" . Shoots way better with tuner.
I have read somewhere that the thinner barrels do work better with tuners.
they did some tuning for him, but he retuned with his ammo. He has spent a lot of time with the tuner.
I have a carbon proof on my CZ with a EC V2 and it very much so makes a difference, but I do not have one on my DPG 1.1" barrel.
Kenny has cut enough barrels and he essentially talked me out of threading the end with that size barrel. I'm very happy with the performance of the DPG Shilen and don't regret not threading it.
Kenny has cut enough barrels and he essentially talked me out of threading the end with that size barrel. I'm very happy with the performance of the DPG Shilen and don't regret not threading it.
I’m running a 1.20 from preferred barrel blanks and it shoots lights out without a tuner. A whole bunch on people I talked to said anything over 1” doesn’t really respond to a tuner to well.
I’ve done a lot of these Rob with V1s on 1.25s and V2s on both 1.200 and 1.25 straights. They don’t respond like a .900 straight barrel but I have been able to get the groups more round. I like a direct install for either with no adapter.
Does the Ezell Tuner you think work better than the EC V2 - since it's heavier and extends past the muzzle?
I’m not sure I can say better in my experience. They’ve both accomplished making the groups more round. Neither are miracle workers though. I see them make good, better.
If done properly I don’t think you’re hurting anything with either one. It needs to not end up being a distraction though or there are much better things to do in a range session.
If done properly I don’t think you’re hurting anything with either one. It needs to not end up being a distraction though or there are much better things to do in a range session.
I absolutely hate tuning. Eats up a lot of ammo and time...
I might leave the tuner set at zero for quite some time.
Yeh, that's why I just have them put it on. Whether or not I touch it is up to me when I have the patience
. But at least I have the option to change the tune.I feel your pain.
Maybe I can help. As much as it can be a pain to find and confirm an optimum tune how about just having the ability to rein in a profoundly out of tune ammo/barrel combination. By going without or by just setting it to zero and leaving it there you may well be 180 degrees out. Whoa ... my rifle really doesn't shoot this lot well. Are you sure? How about a coarse adjustment just to get you in the ball park.
As I understand your discipline, which I do not shoot, that might be a reasonable compromise.
I think it is worth taking a look at post 106. Someone disinclined to test extensively and repeatedly for different ammo lots and ambient conditions might want to be in a broad area of stable, if not optimum tune. I have shot this test twice with the weight of the tuner being the only variable. In that case the graphs were quite convincing and easily interpreted.
Good luck with the new barrel, have a good season Rob.
I followed the general advice from IBI and did not thread my 22LR barrel for a tuner or brake. The diameter is whatever the full straight profile is. If I shot BR, I might investigate further, but high/low flyers from mid range ammo are what move my 10 shot groups significantly over 1” at 100. I’ve got enough to worry about without messing with a tuner. If the Eley Match I’ve got coming doesn’t shoot a bit better, next time I may try a tuner. I have yet to see a believable straightforward test that makes me believe in them.
My sample sizes are small, but I put an EC V2 on my Vudoo, 22" MTU, it dialed right in, so I bought a 2nd for my Rim X, 20" Proof carbon, again it dialed right in.
With all this success, lol, I bought 2 more for my Kidd's, 20" .920" barrels, had a local guy thread them. My conditions have not been excellent, but I am having hell with both, even took one off and now it doesn't shoot as good as before with the same ammo. I am going to follow this through, even recrowning w/o threads if needed.
I really don't know enough yet to even speculate just what my issues are, but it is time consuming and a waste of ammo so far.
With all this success, lol, I bought 2 more for my Kidd's, 20" .920" barrels, had a local guy thread them. My conditions have not been excellent, but I am having hell with both, even took one off and now it doesn't shoot as good as before with the same ammo. I am going to follow this through, even recrowning w/o threads if needed.
I really don't know enough yet to even speculate just what my issues are, but it is time consuming and a waste of ammo so far.
there are several threads about tuners on the hide..most turn into a shit show as always lol
if you take what the "tuner guys" agree on (which isnt that much);
tuners are not set and forget, there is adjustments needed when temp outside, temp of ammo, lot number of ammo...you name it
and that what starts the "fights", some guys say well if it works why do i need to adjust, did the barrel just fall out of tune?
then the other guys say well you can tell when and how to adjust from experience, so you adjust
then you have the center and rim fire champions that say they only use them to wring the last little bit out of their ammo but if it shoots great in the morning relays and not as great in the afternoon, most will not adjust the tuner. they will deal with it, incase they cannot find a new/better tune. no one touches gear in the middle of a competition.
they all agree that a tuner cannot turn bad ammo into better ammo, it can just fine tune that particular ammo to its maximum potential if you know what you are doing. along with there is no agreed tuning process, everyone has their own tweaks. which is fine but that means that you are coming up with your own process...and will it work everytime
personally i would love tuners to work "easily" because i shoot factory match ammo 90% of the time
the deeper in the weeds i get, i think its a art not a science and we have enough variables to deal with
Gut call from what I see, if your shooting good enough a tuner will not hold you back or move you up
if you take what the "tuner guys" agree on (which isnt that much);
tuners are not set and forget, there is adjustments needed when temp outside, temp of ammo, lot number of ammo...you name it
and that what starts the "fights", some guys say well if it works why do i need to adjust, did the barrel just fall out of tune?
then the other guys say well you can tell when and how to adjust from experience, so you adjust
then you have the center and rim fire champions that say they only use them to wring the last little bit out of their ammo but if it shoots great in the morning relays and not as great in the afternoon, most will not adjust the tuner. they will deal with it, incase they cannot find a new/better tune. no one touches gear in the middle of a competition.
they all agree that a tuner cannot turn bad ammo into better ammo, it can just fine tune that particular ammo to its maximum potential if you know what you are doing. along with there is no agreed tuning process, everyone has their own tweaks. which is fine but that means that you are coming up with your own process...and will it work everytime
personally i would love tuners to work "easily" because i shoot factory match ammo 90% of the time
the deeper in the weeds i get, i think its a art not a science and we have enough variables to deal with
Gut call from what I see, if your shooting good enough a tuner will not hold you back or move you up
There is a good bunch of gunsmiths who claim a bore will expand when it's threaded. I was worried about this very thing and had my rimx barrel threaded 5/8-24 for my EC tuner. No change in accuracy at all. Maybe it's not a thing, my proof barrels shoot good, not as good as this barrel, but good regardless.
I don't think you're going to see much effect on 1.2 straight with a tuner.
A lot of folks are currently running 1.25 straight without a tuner. (I'm looking at you you TX and OK boys...)
I removed my tuner off my Vudoo in 2022. Haven't been back since.
A lot of folks are currently running 1.25 straight without a tuner. (I'm looking at you you TX and OK boys...)
I removed my tuner off my Vudoo in 2022. Haven't been back since.
This thread was not made to get into yet another debate on whether tuners work or not. I know they do as I have used them on other rifles but my question was for guys with 1.2 or 1.25” barrels if they saw any benefits. That’s it.
To answer your question: I have not seen any benefit on straight taper barrels.
it definitely goes into if they work and how they work
if you dont know what weight tuner to use (which are mathematical formulas) then you dont know what tuner to buy
if you dont buy the optimal weight tuner you are pissing in the wind
To answer your OP. I would say very little benefit if any. The easiest barrels to tune and respond to different tuner settings are between .850 to .90 dia. Streight taper and around 25 inches in length. Short fat barrels don't respond well to tuners. 1.2 dia. 22in. is short and fat.
Depends on how you tune me thinks... Follow ECs sugestions, yes you will burn a ton of ammo. Local to me shooter (2nd in the region right now, I think?) said "Dude... Bottom the tuner and shoot 3 shots. Go 1 FULL turn and repeat. Another full turn, etc. When you find a good-ish spot you can tweek the setting if you feel like it." I tried it and it it works pretty damn well!
Tuner for 1.25 yes... Same practice as non tuner barrels, (with the tuner attached) test lots until you find one that show best results. A tuner will give you the ability to maximize your ammo's grouping ability.
It also give you an option to improve the ammo due to changing environmental conditions. This may be of value for those who travel to PRS matches around the country; environmentals (altitude, temp, DA) effect the ammo's performance.
If you have lot tested at your home range 70, blue sky at sea level and you have a match in another part of the country with expected temps in the 90s and elevation 2,500 ASL you will see a difference.
Light tuners like Dbrambley or heavier versions like Spearhead machine both tune... i believe heavier tuners show more responsiveness on heavy barrels.
Trevor
It also give you an option to improve the ammo due to changing environmental conditions. This may be of value for those who travel to PRS matches around the country; environmentals (altitude, temp, DA) effect the ammo's performance.
If you have lot tested at your home range 70, blue sky at sea level and you have a match in another part of the country with expected temps in the 90s and elevation 2,500 ASL you will see a difference.
Light tuners like Dbrambley or heavier versions like Spearhead machine both tune... i believe heavier tuners show more responsiveness on heavy barrels.
Trevor
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That bulge as I understand is to create a tight spot in the bore where it is supposed to be. .Most factory Anschutz barrels that I have owned responded well to a Harrels tuner.
Mine was a harrels, worked well. Sold the rifle but still have the tuner and related items since I used the MPR as a entry level gun for BRRF activities. Shot some 198's and 199's with it on some of my better days.
Actually, I believe it is to help keep the front sight level with the rear. if you look at some of the heavy barrels, they have very little of the so call dogknot.
also, you want a barrel to have a gradual taper and to get tighter as you near the muzzle not just the last few inches. I can't think it would be good to have an abrupt tight spot before the bullet exits.
Lee
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I have a 24" 1.25 bartlien that is supposed to be done in about a week. I chose not to use a tuner based on seeing a lot of folks finding that the results are not repeatable. I also spoke with the folks at the lapua test centers, and they recommended not using a tuner with a full contour barrel.
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What I found was that shorter stiffer barrels need a lighter tuner. I also noticed that CM barrels versus SS seem to respond differently not sure if it is the difference in the hardness of the barrel material.
But ideally you really need to shoot it without a tuner and let it tell you what it needs.
Lee
Keep that to yourself lots of tuner people in the hide will be angry lol.
Rob01 I put a straight taper 1.250 on my Vudoo and a 1.200 on my RimX and did not run a tuner on either. Most of the people I shoot with that have them said they tried to tune their rifles with these contoured barrels and when they found a setting that worked they would change it to see if the groups would get better, and then change it back, and it would not repeat the best group. My experience with tuners were on smaller barrels and I did see a difference but once I found the sweet spot it stayed right there. We all know the secret is lot testing and then buying as much as we can of that lot. There will always be the variables of weather/temp changes but that`s where I rely on my Kestrel to tell me what is needed. Good luck with your decision. I still remember our days on the old "6.5 Creedmoor" forum trying to find brass and components. Hard to believe how long ago that was...
Actually that was the exact info I was asking to hear from people who have actually used those contour barrels with and without tuners.
It's possible that a very heavy barrel will have too much "sag" due to weight that it's difficult or imposssible for a tuner to work effectively.
For example, many Anschutz shooters report that the Anschutz heavy barrels, which are 69cm (27.2 inches) long and 24mm (0.945 inches) in diameter (not including the "dog knot" found on 19xx and newer barrels), are often impossible to tune with a standard Harrell tuner. RFBR barrels, which do respond to Harrell tuners, are typically a little shorter and not quite as heavy.
For example, many Anschutz shooters report that the Anschutz heavy barrels, which are 69cm (27.2 inches) long and 24mm (0.945 inches) in diameter (not including the "dog knot" found on 19xx and newer barrels), are often impossible to tune with a standard Harrell tuner. RFBR barrels, which do respond to Harrell tuners, are typically a little shorter and not quite as heavy.
would love to hear how it shoots without it. Any chance you can get your buddy to test it out for us? I have been thinking about going DI route, but question if the tuner is really needed to achieve the kind of precision we are after. It would be nice to see some groups with and without the tuner for comparison.
I don't think he would take it off, due to the way shoots. I would say it would shoot just fine, with a good lot of ammo. But a tuner can dial that lot in to shooting great, same for the next lot. Give DI a call they highly recommend EC V2 tuners. My friend talked with a few times before ordering his gun.
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