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Turning necks

Dildobaggins

Major Hide Member
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Minuteman
  • Jun 26, 2020
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    So I've looked up and down on the hide for answers to this but can't find much.

    Been reloading for about 1 1/2 years. My process is

    FL size
    Mandrel die. 002 neck tension
    Trim
    Deburr and chamfer
    Prime and powder charge using RCBS charge master link
    Load CBTO

    Does turning neck add to brass consistency? Also, if so does it help aid in accuracy?

    What else can I do in the reloading process to help aid in accuracy?


    Thanks fellas
     
    What's the current performance of your ammo? What are you looking to achieve?
    Looking to improve group size at 100-500 yards. I'm shooting my 6mm bolt getting between .5-.75 inch groups at 100, with 103 eldx. Just loaded Hornady 105 bthp and haven't shot em yet. Also, just ordered 107 smk's.

    My 6.5 grendel and 223 ARs im getting around 1/2 groups consistently at 1-200 yards Just wondering if there's anything I can do to squeeze any more accuracy out of these rounds. I've played with seating depth, bullets and powder charges extensively in the ARs.

    I know I can always work more on the fundementals, that is not lost on me.
     
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    Reactions: RegionRat
    So I've looked up and down on the hide for answers to this but can't find much.

    Been reloading for about 1 1/2 years. My process is

    FL size
    Mandrel die. 002 neck tension
    Trim
    Deburr and chamfer
    Prime and powder charge using RCBS charge master link
    Load CBTO

    Does turning neck add to brass consistency? Also, if so does it help aid in accuracy?

    What else can I do in the reloading process to help aid in accuracy?


    Thanks fellas
    It depends on what kind of neck clearance one might have in their chamber for the particular brass and its wall thickness. Generally, one typically doesn't need to be concerned about this. Depending on the type of die used and method for sizing, turning can help with getting low and consistent runout for the neck and seated bullet, eliminating variations in neck wall thickness. Though, using a mandrel to set neck tension take care of this without turning as the mandrel tends to move the variations to the outside of the neck (as long as the necks don't have a lot of springback).
     
    It depends on what kind of neck clearance one might have in their chamber for the particular brass and its wall thickness. Generally, one typically doesn't need to be concerned about this. Depending on the type of die used and method for sizing, turning can help with getting low and consistent runout for the neck and seated bullet, eliminating variations in neck wall thickness. Though, using a mandrel to set neck tension take care of this without turning as the mandrel tends to move the variations to the outside of the neck (as long as the necks don't have a lot of springback).
    This is one of the reasons I asked this question. As I was reading other threads this was brought up, about the mandrel, and that it would take care of most of it. I just figured that the mandrel would expand the I.D and leave the variations in the neck the same. Thanks for clarifying. This is good info! Also, I'm just using Redding FL dies. I've tried RCBS, and a Forester die for 6.5 grendel. The Forester die threads were hard to get into my rock chucker, and the die felt incredibly cheap. Love thier seater dies though.
     
    Neck turning is not going to turn the needle on performance.

    Using quality components, quality reloading equipment and focus on making ammo as consistent as possible will get you 98% of the way to exceptional reloads.

    This means bumping shoulders consistently, charging consistently, seating bullets consistently.

    Use good quality components like Lapua and Berger.
     
    Long ago.... like before the masses ever saw a blue box of brass.... a turned neck outside of BR shooting was a method of last resort to see if you could make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Finding good brass was difficult and outside of BR shooting it was a pain to have to resort to the extra work for a regular chamber/neck. Virgin brass in bulk was ordered over the phone or snail mail via tiny adds in small rare magazines and tissue paper catalogues.

    Back then, it was easy to make an improvement, but only because it was also common to be forced to work with brass that was awful. Once you found better brass, you didn't turn for normal chambers but some highpower and varmint chambers were borderline BR designs that still did.

    Fast forward about 25 years and those magazines have disappeared and the internet becomes common. The little boutique folks who imported the good brass were displaced by corporations that grabbed the sources and at the same time it becomes common to have good brass from more than one or two places. Several Wildcat designs that used to require fireforming can be bought off the shelf.

    There is a funny saying about how to screen your choice of calibers to avoid trouble... it goes something like if the brass comes out of a blue box and the bullets come out of a yellow box, go ahead. If they don't.... pick something that does....

    There is some wisdom behind that saying so it isn't entirely meant as a joke. Now there are at least a few other color choices, but you all get the point.

    I am not telling you to never neck turn, or not to try it. By all means, go have a friend with the equipment do this for a test set, or better yet let you learn how with their equipment. That way you are an expert and not parroting what you hear on forums.

    It is good to understand what neck turning does and does not do, and to understand how much that costs and how much time it takes.

    More importantly, it would be good to understand what happens when you take a BR prep process and try to take it outside of BR. It is worth the time to hear the Jack Neary lectures on what they do to take raw 220 Russian brass and turn it into magic, and now how it is possible to buy magic ready made.

    Folks reading here might just be getting started and looking for shortcuts. Here is one I will guarantee or you get a refund...

    They should put a high priority on visiting a well attended BR club match, as well as a match of the type of shooting in their own context of interest. It helps to understand the reasons for the differences in chamber dimensions and what the ramifications of those are with respect to loading practices, and to eye witness those folks loading and shooting. A club match is more relaxed so you are more likely to be able to ask questions without bugging the competition.

    If we call brass inspection and neck turning a "toolset", there is nothing wrong with a shooter who isn't shooting a must-turn neck and shooting other than BR, to try and learn what turning is like and test it themselves. Otherwise you don't get to really understand the value of good brass and no-turn chambers.

    That said, it should be enough to take the word of experience and put that off if you don't have the luxury or time since most of you would benefit from learning to shoot and read wind more than you would from splitting the hairs of turn or no-turn debates. The OP is asking a very good question, so this isn't an admonishment for asking about neck turning. It is a long way of saying there are more important things to spend the time and money, before you get around to turning.

    I don't know what kind of shooting the OP is interested in doing, or what rank they have made. Based on the process description, the low hanging fruit would be to upgrade their scale. (ETA: It takes some experience and skill to outshoot the scale you have, but you asked.)

    There is a time and place for adding to your "toolbox" and skill set. First go get to master level inside 600 yards, then worry about neck turn versus no-turn. In the interim, yes it is best to pay a little more for your bullets and brass so you don't have any excuses even inside of 600 yards.... Tighten the tolerance on your charges and see if you can shoot the difference beyond 600.

    If we are talking about other than long and short range bench rest, which includes highpower sling, F-Class, silhouette, mid-range varmint and hunting, and even most PRS, you will find that the difference between turn and no-turn will not explain the differences on the podiums. Once the context is BR of any type, or going past Mid-Range (over 600 yards), then the debate floor opens since turning necks does show up on paper and can even be a necessity for the chamber designs.
    What else can I do in the reloading process to help aid in accuracy?
    Start with better barrels, bullets, and brass. Cut the tolerances on charges and dimensions in hand. Learn to shoot well, then circle back and ask again and I bet one of us would be happy to turn a batch for you to test.
    YMMV
     
    Last edited:
    Back then, it was easy to make an improvement, but only because it was also common to be forced to work with brass that was awful.

    Reminds me of when I first started shooting HP Rifle, with a 6.5-08. Not a .260 Rem, and long before a 6.5 Creedmoor was ever conceived. You had to either neck up .243 Win brass, and deal with donuts as the top of the shoulder became the bottom of the case neck, or neck down .308 Win brass, and usually neck turn the cases because the necks would be too thick to chamber otherwise. That's how I got started turning necks, way back when - turning Winchester .308 Win cases (which was considerably better than it is *now*, but still a long, long ways from modern Lapua/Petersen/Alpha brass) into shiny new 6.5-08 cases for XTC shooting. *That* was a steep learning curve...