Turns out Corona Virus threat is all horsecrap.

Snuby642

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Triage guidelines should absolutely take age into consideration. Logically, a younger patient has a better chance of survival. Ethically, we should be allocating limited resources to our youth.

Holy shit, if my grandparents were still alive, they'd be astonished, furious, and immensely disappointed that an older member of society would be any amount of convincing to step aside and let a younger person get treatment.

There we go we can now admit it.
Good job on that.

Now I want every hospital to post and update thier triage criteria online daily.
Full disclosure, hospitals should not be exempt from hiding the truth.
 

Rthur

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How would you approach answering your own question?
Some questions can't be answered with any accuracy.
Pretending to is a farce.
See chaos theory.
As the weather is hard to predict so is the progression or lack thereof of this virus.
As many have taken the guidelines of .gov it would be reasonable to assume
that they/them agree with the numbers they are providing.

R
 

chrome

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Some questions can't be answered with any accuracy.
Pretending to is a farce.
See chaos theory.
As the weather is hard to predict so is the progression or lack thereof of this virus.
As many have taken the guidelines of .gov it would be reasonable to assume
that they/them agree with the numbers they are providing.

R
Is it your position since it is hard to accurately predict the infection and lethality rate, we shouldn't try?
 

jakelly

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Is it your position since it is hard to accurately predict the infection and lethality rate, we shouldn't try?
Nobody is saying don’t try. At what costs is the question. The 2/3 of the country is in lockdown and most posters here seem highly upset that someone won’t quarantine hard enough, because their opinion is that the panic is overinflated.
 

jakelly

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@chrome @phlegethon @Dthomas3523 @banned What else do you want to see people doing??

As I stated earlier our actions are being dictated to us by need and decree, our opinions aren’t really significant. It’s not like we are saying, “to heck with this hysteria, I’m going to work today” the doors are locked.You want me to yell at people walking their dogs? Should I quit kissing my wife?
 
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Snuby642

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We will do our part and promis to quit kissing her as well if it helps. Lol

I have curtailed reloading to keep out of my sons house. My wife works at a grocery store and we worry about being exposed every day.

He built an extensive gun room and reloading area. We stocked up on supplies but now sit here to agitate online. Dang!
 
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jakelly

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@chrome And what are my calculations for the economic impact? You need me flesh out what it means for millions of people to lose their livelihood? For the system to carry the weight of millions on unemployment? Did you read any of the links I’ve posted?

In my circles, we just understand a person needs money to live. If you don’t work, you don’t eat. And borrowing against our future labors doesn’t seem like a sound long-term plan.
 

jakelly

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We will do our part and promis to quit kissing her as well if it helps. Lol

I have curtailed reloading to keep out of my sons house. My wife works at a grocery store and we worry about being exposed every day.

He built an extensive gun room and reloading area. We stocked up on supplies but now sit here to agitate online. Dang!
Thanks, I appreciate that.
That's funny. I assume your referring to @Centuriator

But after yesterday's Jerry's kids blowout, there are quite a few possibilities?
Yep. That’s the huckleberry.
 

pmclaine

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What policy did I propose? What do you think should be done if there is one ventilator left and you have two or three patients who are getting worse and need mechanical ventilation?

At this point your ass is puckered doing everything that can be done to not come to that point but we all know "hope" is not a plan.

I wouldnt call those stuck with that decision cowardly.

I know what you have to do.

Guess Im a little concerned their might be too many physicians like Ralph Northam out there that are a bit too quick to "make 'em warm, make 'em comfortable" and than "Let em die".

Maybe help 'em along a little......quick heart punch....old ribs break easy peasy.
 
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E. Bryant

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There we go we can now admit it.
Good job on that.

Now I want every hospital to post and update thier triage criteria online daily.
Full disclosure, hospitals should not be exempt from hiding the truth.
I cannot wait to hear the news of some self-centered selfish Boomer going apeshit because his dumb 2-pack-a-day diabetic ass is getting triaged in favor of a 20something with no pre-existing conditions. Should be a real proud day for America.
 
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pmclaine

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Anyone notice the very public placement of these "Temp Morgues" being set up and the theatrics that go along with placing the bodies?

I mean really forklifts, no screening, no dignity, no effort to shield the process from the media......

Strikes me as odd, designed to scare......
 
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Snuby642

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You need to look in the mirror and figure your worth to me.
You seem like a disrespectful excuse for a man to me.

People like you need tossed out.

You grasp at imaginary straws to make old folks seem nonrelivant.

@E. Bryant bryant
 

oneshot86

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Anyone notice the very public placement of these "Temp Morgues" being set up and the theatrics that go along with placing the bodies?

I mean really forklifts, no screening, no dignity, no effort to shield the process from the media......

Strikes me as odd, designed to scare......
do you have any links, i found just a very little bit of pictures. but the few i did, yep, right out in the most very open.
interesting
 

supercorndogs

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I really suck at math but isn't 1% of the U.S. population around 3.6 million? I don't think that number is insubstantial
Is your name repeat? I don't know why you quoted me to repeat what I said. "1.4% is still scary" were my exact words.
 

Snuby642

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Wait till they palitize them wrap in clear plastic and move them like cord wood.
That's gonna be very ugly.
 

fdkay

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Is your name repeat? I don't know why you quoted me to repeat what I said. "1.4% is still scary" were my exact words.
I was putting a specific number to 1% of the population as an exclamation to your post.
I never said you didn't think it was serious.
 

MosesTheTank

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You're right, tomorrow the risk of getting and dying of COVID could be less. Could be more. Odds of dying in a car accident are lower today than they were Mar 1 due to less people driving.

Show me a math technique that does work? What is the risk of getting and dying of COVID today, tomorrow, and a month from now? If anyone thinks they can do that I'll let them pick my lottery numbers this week.

If you can't calculate the future risk, why the fuck are we all arguing over our personal opinions of how dangerous COVID is? I'm not going to believe someone on an internet forum who can't give a good basis behind their belief. No, media articles do not suffice. Doctor's articles don't suffice at this point because I don't think 90% of them know what the fuck they're doing either.
So you have some knowledge of math? I assume so otherwise you couldn't critique an answer given.

I ask the same question of you, what are your calcs, methods, tools, or whatever you use?
 

OldSalty

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The guy with the cell up to his face with gloved hands. Sorta odd, IDK...if I was in a place that I needed to wear gloves I certainly wouldnt be finger fucking my phone and holding it up to my face.

The people supporting the gurney with no gloves, no masks.

Maybe they ran out of gloves and masks? They can buy masks for 5 bucks each from the distributor that "found" 39 million of them.

And gloves? Id use empty bread sacks if thats all the fuck I had.
 
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MosesTheTank

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No, thats not what I meant.

What I was trying to convey is (and I am certainly no different) we often stop looking for truth when our bias is confirmed. Or, when "facts" support our preconceived opinion, which even includes information formulated by established "scientific evidence".

And, this phenomenon is well known and can be played to an advantage.

I am not saying the virus is man made because I do not know. Evidence may also support a conclusion that it is not man made or was not intentionally released. However, to not entertain the (and to continue the investigation at some level) idea as a possibility is IMO, quite dangerous.
Got it. Thanks for the reply, and I think that is a fair statement. I trust that the vast majority of researchers, geneticists, epidemiologists, data scientists, etc. that are pouring over this will have considered that. Certainly some are looking for it. It is only fair to acknowledge fallibility.
 
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E. Bryant

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You need to look in the mirror and figure your worth to me.
You seem like a disrespectful excuse for a man to me.

People like you need tossed out.

You grasp at imaginary straws to make old folks seem nonrelivant.

@E. Bryant bryant
Blame my dad for raising me this way. Based upon a number of conversations with him (some very recent), he clearly feels differently than you. I have absolute confidence that he would give up a hospital bed if it meant that a younger person might survive, and that my grandparents would have done the same, and so on.
 

OldSalty

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Got it. Thanks for the reply, and I think that is a fair statement. I trust that the vast majority of researchers, geneticists, epidemiologists, data scientists, etc. that are pouring over this will have considered that. Certainly some are looking for it. It is only fair to acknowledge fallibility.
Absolutely...

Another point but sort of illustates what I mean...just in less words.

The experts I would love to hear from, well...they arent exactly allowed to talk.
 

Mr.BR

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"Sailors Do Not Need To Die": Captain Of COVID-19 Plagued Carrier Pleads To Bring Crew Ashore

The captain of the U.S. Navy's Nimitz class aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt, which is in port in Guam and experiencing a major outbreak of the COVID-19 novel coronavirus, has sent an unprecedented letter to the service's headquarters. In it, the officer implores his superiors to allow him to move the bulk of his crew to facilities ashore to stem the spread of the virus to "prevent tragic outcomes."

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Exclusive-Captain-of-aircraft-carrier-with-15167883.php
 
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oneshot86

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They are refrigerator trucks loaned to store bodies instead of the local morge.
i sure as hell bet they are not loaned, and i do know what a freezer box looks like, i have 3.
i do wonder who is the person or financial entity that owns the truck trailers, who they are connected to and why the trailers were put on display
 

chrome

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@chrome @phlegethon @Dthomas3523 @banned What else do you want to see people doing??

As I stated earlier our actions are being dictated to us by need and decree, our opinions aren’t really significant. It’s not like we are saying, “to heck with this hysteria, I’m going to work today” the doors are locked.You want me to yell at people walking their dogs? Should I quit kissing my wife?
Thanks for asking (sincerely). I share my abbreviated thoughts on how I view this. You may be surprised:

1.) Virus/Biological Impact for me - As a 36 year old male with no other comorbidities other than prior cancer survivor, I don't hold a lot of anxiety about me or my wife contracting the virus (she has similar demographics). Healthy young adults, the data suggests we would be in that 80% of having flu like symptoms.

2.) Virus/Biological Impact for Others - I have severe concerns how this virus is impacting our most at risk (multiple comorbidities) and elderly.

3.) Our Government's Response - I have severe concerns about how our government has responded across the board
a.) Medically/Population Health - Given the early data from East Asia (China, S.K., Singapore), Italy/Germany, I am wondering why there wasn't more of an emphasis on isolating our most at risk/elderly FIRST, and then gauge the emerging data from there. While it isn't fair to compare across cultures and governments, other developed countries have shown a more robust response given their ability to rapidly test and isolate.
ii) I do not think our administration, executive and congressional, were as quick to act on this as they should have been. I know its easy to sharp shoot, but for some obvious and not obvious reasons, earlier intervention of testing and isolation would have been beneficial.

b.) Economically - Our congressional and executive leaders are simply playing GDP Balance sheet gymnastics, and leveraging the future of our children and grandchildren, of an already broke nation (23 trillion and growing in debt), and betting on absorbing another 6-10+ trillion in debt and obligations

c.) Constitutionally - Our rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights are absolute or they are not. I believe they are absolute. I look at cities like Chicago, Washington D.C. (2 miles away from me) who are threatening jail time and fines for citizens living our 1st amendment (freedom of association), as an affront to the constitution. Fuck these leaders. I should be able to move freely while observing social distancing as much as I fucking want.

4.) As a Healthcare Leader - I have severe concerns on what this means for our system in the interim and mid-term.
a.) We have identified some real fucking huge holes in our supply chain infrastructure
b.) We have identified some real fucking huge holes in how we've listened (or not) to the CDC/NIH historically when it comes to prepping for such events
c.) I am concerned about what this means for our frontline healthcare workers from a PPE/protection standpoint, and also from an emotional/physical burnout perspective. Both MDs/Nurses were reporting high burnout rates BEFORE this hit. If we can't provide enough PPE for these front line leaders, what does this mean for the resources needed to increase resiliency, decrease stress, train future doctors, etc?
d.) And the obvious, I am truly concerned on running out of ICU beds not only in the big metros, but also at Critical Access Hospitals in Rural America, where this virus will eventually end up. CAHs are closing on the regular, and people in rural areas are having to drive further and further for specialist care.

5.) The Data - The data we have today could be a hell of a lot better, but it is what we have. We should see a national data set released today by the white house (if it already hasn't) that will be U.S. specific.
a.) As others have noted, there is trends in the East Asia and Italian data sets that are unique, and those trends may manifest here in the U.S., or they may not. I am sure a lot of us in healthcare are chomping at the bit to really dive in to the regression analyses from a patient, hospital, city, state, regional level to truly see what this virus is doing.

So that wasn't brief, and I am sure I missed something. And all of the above is subject to change in light of new data (except my thoughts on the constitution, obviously) But in summary: I am deeply worried about the healthcare system and its bandwidth to handle the current predictions of bed utilization, both normal and critical), especially overlayed against our resources. I am equally worried about the economic fallout (short/mid/long-term) of this transfer of wealth the government has authorized, and lastly I am appalled at the suspension of our 1st, 4th, 5th, 14th Amendments in the face of tough times. It isn't who we are, nor should it be who we are.


Nobody is saying don’t try. At what costs is the question. The 2/3 of the country is in lockdown and most posters here seem highly upset that someone won’t quarantine hard enough, because their opinion is that the panic is overinflated.
We may be talking about 2 different things as Rthur was talking simply about data and predictions. I think we ultimately we agree that we shouldn't avoid gathering and analyzing the data because it would be hard.

To your questions following, think I addressed those above.
 
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pmclaine

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The guy with the cell up to his face with gloved hands. Sorta odd, IDK...if I was in a place that I needed to wear gloves I certainly wouldnt be finger fucking my phone and holding it up to my face.

The people supporting the gurney with no gloves, no masks.

Maybe they ran out of gloves and masks? They can buy masks for 5 bucks each from the distributor that "found" 39 million of them.

And gloves? Id use empty bread sacks if thats all the fuck I had.

Trying to read the reg on the trailer.........what state?
 

dang472

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89C91987-061A-4932-B0DC-2E6342C48DE0.png
These were seen in my smaller town in Dekalb County, IL more than a month ago. Signage on the side and everything. Freaked a lot of people out.
 

chrome

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Nobody is saying don’t try. At what costs is the question. The 2/3 of the country is in lockdown and most posters here seem highly upset that someone won’t quarantine hard enough, because their opinion is that the panic is overinflated.
Nice deflection.
Let's stick to the subject at hand.
Not pretending to be able to have accuracy is relevant.


R
I'm not deflecting. I'm trying to understand your position.

Can you restate it differently?
 

dang472

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I’m not attacking our resident Hide doctor here, but I’ve engaged in forum discussions/crusades before that have taken up a considerable amount of my time and energy. After days of you “winning” an internet argument you’re still consumed with trying to prove you’re right to every poster. If there is a current hospital crisis across the country, I’d imagine the hours spent educating us on a shooting forum could be spent elsewhere.
 
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Raffy

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This is not a scare tactic. What do you think is the most likely cause of death that this person just died from? How else are they logistically going to get these people's bodies from point a to point b in that truck? These hospital workers with the forklift are simply practicing the most literal form of social distancing and following the procedural protocol the facility put in place for this situation to protect its employees. After they unload the patient from the gurney the gurney is treated to be just as infectious as the patient who was on it until it is cleaned. Whoever called out the guy on his cell phone with gloves on probably doesn't know he likely didnt touch anything, therefor has clean gloves, but if he did touch anything he is a moron. And the guys touching the gurney without gloved hands...they are idiots. I think it is disrespectful that some person published these photos, though.
 

Snuby642

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Most med staff on 7 / 12's aroud here.
There are several medical experts been on this thread more than a retired grampa,
In a shutdown state.

@dang472 has a solid point.
 

dang472

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Shit, only 24 racks? Probably not enough for NYC.

It does seem like subtle markings would be more approrpriate :unsure:
I believe the ones that were seen in Dekalb were semi trailers. Weeks before a single corona death in IL was reported. Family friend took a picture in front of it otherwise I wouldn’t have believed it.
 

Raffy

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Thanks for asking (sincerely). I share my abbreviated thoughts on how I view this. You may be surprised:

1.) Virus/Biological Impact for me - As a 36 year old male with no other comorbidities other than prior cancer survivor, I don't hold a lot of anxiety about me or my wife contracting the virus (she has similar demographics). Healthy young adults, the data suggests we would be in that 80% of having flu like symptoms.

2.) Virus/Biological Impact for Others - I have severe concerns how this virus is impacting our most at risk (multiple comorbidities) and elderly.

3.) Our Government's Response - I have severe concerns about how our government has responded across the board
a.) Medically/Population Health - Given the early data from East Asia (China, S.K., Singapore), Italy/Germany, I am wondering why there wasn't more of an emphasis on isolating our most at risk/elderly FIRST, and then gauge the emerging data from there. While it isn't fair to compare across cultures and governments, other developed countries have shown a more robust response given their ability to rapidly test and isolate.
ii) I do not think our administration, executive and congressional, were as quick to act on this as they should have been. I know its easy to sharp shoot, but for some obvious and not obvious reasons, earlier intervention of testing and isolation would have been beneficial.

b.) Economically - Our congressional and executive leaders are simply playing GDP Balance sheet gymnastics, and leveraging the future of our children and grandchildren, of an already broke nation (23 trillion and growing in debt), and betting on absorbing another 6-10+ trillion in debt and obligations

c.) Constitutionally - Our rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights are absolute or they are not. I believe they are absolute. I look at cities like Chicago, Washington D.C. (2 miles away from me) who are threatening jail time and fines for citizens living our 1st amendment (freedom of association), as an affront to the constitution. Fuck these leaders. I should be able to move freely while observing social distancing as much as I fucking want.

4.) As a Healthcare Leader - I have severe concerns on what this means for our system in the interim and mid-term.
a.) We have identified some real fucking huge holes in our supply chain infrastructure
b.) We have identified some real fucking huge holes in how we've listened (or not) to the CDC/NIH historically when it comes to prepping for such events
c.) I am concerned about what this means for our frontline healthcare workers from a PPE/protection standpoint, and also from an emotional/physical burnout perspective. Both MDs/Nurses were reporting high burnout rates BEFORE this hit. If we can't provide enough PPE for these front line leaders, what does this mean for the resources needed to increase resiliency, decrease stress, train future doctors, etc?
d.) And the obvious, I am truly concerned on running out of ICU beds not only in the big metros, but also at Critical Access Hospitals in Rural America, where this virus will eventually end up. CAHs are closing on the regular, and people in rural areas are having to drive further and further for specialist care.

5.) The Data - The data we have today could be a hell of a lot better, but it is what we have. We should see a national data set released today by the white house (if it already hasn't) that will be U.S. specific.
a.) As others have noted, there is trends in the East Asia and Italian data sets that are unique, and those trends may manifest here in the U.S., or they may not. I am sure a lot of us in healthcare are chomping at the bit to really dive in to the regression analyses from a patient, hospital, city, state, regional level to truly see what this virus is doing.

So that wasn't brief, and I am sure I missed something. And all of the above is subject to change in light of new data (except my thoughts on the constitution, obviously) But in summary: I am deeply worried about the healthcare system and its bandwidth to handle the current predictions of bed utilization, both normal and critical), especially overlayed against our resources. I am equally worried about the economic fallout (short/mid/long-term) of this transfer of wealth the government has authorized, and lastly I am appalled at the suspension of our 1st, 4th, 5th, 14th Amendments in the face of tough times. It isn't who we are, nor should it be who we are.




We may be talking about 2 different things as Rthur was talking simply about data and predictions. I think we ultimately we agree that we shouldn't avoid gathering and analyzing the data because it would be hard.

To your questions following, think I addressed those above.
Many good points.

Everyone here has a different perspective of this based on their own local government. If I lived in Commifornia I wouldn't feel the same as where I live now. Some local authorities aren't managing well, some are doing a bang up job and making smart choices. Locals from every part of the country(world?) Are on this thread. I feel like everyone's point of view is affected by where they are experiencing this from. I'd be pissed if someone got all hostile about going outside and threatened fines and less likely to want to enjoy it. With that said there is too much coordination, too many unknown variables, and too many microscopic pathogens in too many places to relax thebasic (READ:BASIC)recommended precautions. Besides the basics, each individual's local government changes things based on needs and are unique and deserve good questions with straightforward answers feom leaders. I'd bet not everyone is enjoying that right. I can see/understand reasons for everyone's opinion's. Some I have a hard time agreeing with based upon my own personal experiences and observations, others I readily share. Some of my thoughts have been adjusted based on the rantings and ravings in this thread. I feel like that is a good thing. I think everyone is getting ultra uptight about all this though. Might could use to release some gas. I was interested to see some of us arguing different points and eventually came straight out and said their deepest darkest feelings and then those feelings weren't what I thought they would be based on the back and forth between many comments with other members. I think people here largely feel similarly or are categorized in to fewer divided groups than what it seems on the surface. We are mostly all numbers guys and meticulous thinkers and it pisses people here off that those in charge both large and local aren't more forthcoming about information we know they have, that we want so we can understand the whats and the why's to the funk that is going around in their communities. I don't know if that is all correct, but I'm pretty sure it is.
 

wade2big

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Does anyone have any photos or videos of these over run hospitals with patients in the hallways? I have found plenty of videos that people posted of completely empty hospitals.

I better add before someone gets butthurt that I am not inferring this whole thing is made up. Just asking a question