TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

[JimGnitecki]

TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

Some of you know I work in a non-commissioned role at Texas Dept of Public Safety (the Texas state police force). Today, I got an up-close look, and photos, of the 2nd of the new fleet of patrol boats that the agency is commissioning.

She’s named after one of our fallen officers who was killed on duty in 1981. She’s 34 feet long, does 70 mph, draws only 2 feet of water, and is powered by 3 of 300 hp outboard engines, for a total of 900 horsepower. She is also heavily armed: 6 selective fire rifles mounted along the gunwales, 4 at the front and 2 at the rear

Here’s some photos:

The reason for boats is that TX DPS has Texas Rangers, Highway Patrol, Crime Labs, etc, but also Water Patrol, and does a lot in cooperation with Federal Border Patrol. That includes drug interdiction along the Rio Grande River between Texas and Mexico, and the drug runners have been outgunning our officers. These boats aim to fix that.

The rifles are selective fire 308s, and with 6 of them, our good guys will be able to throw more lead than the bad guys can. The 1000 horsepower, 70 mph, and shallow draft ensure they can get to the scene quickly, as long as there is even minimal water along the route (Texas has been going througha long draught).

The Memorial Wall in front of our training academy reminds us all that some of our guys never come home. At least now, they have much better tools to work with to stay alive.

Jim G

 

[ddavis]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

When I saw pictures of it a couple weeks ago I was wondering in what situation would the DPS be given the go-ahead to open fire with the mounted machine guns. The machine guns are really unnecessary. US Border Patrol uses similar boats, but they just carry M4's. More than adequate. It's a neat boat and all, but someone went a bit overboard with taxpayer money.
-Dan

 

[LongArm]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

well if being fired upon by mexican drug cartels it'd be nice to have something bigger than a m4 to keep their heads down until you can make some distance.

 

[rrflyer]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

Saw these a few weeks ago as well. I'm all for protecting the border but this seems like overkill/overspending. How have you guys been outgunned?

At any rate tell the guys to stay safe and see if I can get a ride!

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

The decisions are all well above my pay grade, but I hear the bad guys are firing at our guys and Border Patrol with handheld selective fire weapons to defend their $x million shipments, and we have a LONG river border that they pick their spots on, and our guys have to be able to get there fast enough to stop the drugs from successfully getting across.

I guess people forget or don't connect the dots: we are a border state with Mexico, we have significant gang activity correlated to the Mexican drug trade, and are therefore a "distribution channel" that leads to the rest of the country. Since the dollars involved in the drug trade are so high, the drug dealers arm themselves heavily and fight hard, as loss of a multi-million dollar drug shipment, in a criminal enterprise, probably results in more than mere disciplining or dismissal for the guys that lost it.

I am relatively "new" to Texas, having been here only about a decade, but I have seen that Texas is not shy about applying force where it needs to be applied. Our commissioned officers carry hi-cap 357 SIG pistols because our officers loudly called for something stronger than the 9mm and 45acp pistols they used to carry, something closer in stopping power to the 357 Mag revolvers they carried for a long time.

When I need to be reminded about how brave our commissioned people need to be, and how under-equipped they used to be, I go to the front lobby of Buiidng A in our campus, where there is on display a 1950 Highway Patrol interceptor car. It had no light bar to protect the officer from traffic during a stop, a gutless engine, a limited range radio that was the only link to call for help when out in the middle of West Texas, headlights little better than a flashlight, no patrol rifle or shotgun, and NO barrier between the front and back seats! Those guys had to be confident and have GUTS to go out there equipped like that. And they did. Every day.

So, I'm glad to see this boat and its armament. I wish the rifles were .338 Lapua based though!

Jim G

 

[Luke]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

Since when is it wrong to give the guys protecting our border the ability to provide overwhelming firepower??? This would be one of those cases where unless you've been in their shoes, you should probably just keep your opinions to yourself...

Especially considering that most of these bad dudes live on the other side of a loosely guarded border, within a day's worth of driving to most of our homes, and obviously have no regard for laws or authority:

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

Thanks, Luke. That is the kind of enemy our guys are fighting.

It's not yet the kind of war zone that the Mexican authorities are having to fight within, but big drug money can buy lot of evil to use as its enforcers, and attracts the very worst psychopaths.

Jim G

 

[southpaw68]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

I don't live in Texas anymore, but if I did, it wouldn't bother me one bit that my tax dollars were spent on this .... I am a very firm believer in the philosophy "It's better to have and not need than to need and not have" especially when it comes to guns. Yeah...it might well be overkill....so what? Why do you care ...seriously ...why?

OP -- Congratulations to TDPS on their excellent new crime fighting tool acquisition.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

I live in TX and I am glad to see that we will do what the FED wont. The next person in charge of the FED needs to step up border protection with military force if necessary.

 

[Johnny Lately]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

I'm really surprised they didn't use Red Jacket's gun mounts.

 

[chainring]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

The appearance of overwhelming force is half the battle with these guys. Actually having overwhelming force is just a good idea. I like it. Go get em, guys.

 

[Numb_Skull]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

If you think it's overkill you obviously have no idea what's going on on the border. Or that a m4 is enough firepower you've never been in a firefight.

The border patrol gets in more shootings in a year than all the police departments in America combined.

 

[OdellJym]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ddavis</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I saw pictures of it a couple weeks ago I was wondering in what situation would the DPS be given the go-ahead to open fire with the mounted machine guns. The machine guns are really unnecessary. US Border Patrol uses similar boats, but they just carry M4's. More than adequate. It's a neat boat and all, but someone went a bit overboard with taxpayer money.
-Dan </div></div>

Funny, this sure looks bigger than an M4...and this is a BP boat with an agent at the helm...

The violence at our border is very real. Unfortunately, it is more newsworthy to report the passing of famous musicians, than it is to report that Americans have been abducted and ransomed from our side of the border. A TEXAS STATE AGENCY (Agricultural Dept.) has gone so far as to start a website documenting the fact that our farmers on the border have become afraid to report illegals crossing their land, fearing retaliation from the drug cartels for disrupting movement of their product:

http://www.protectyourtexasborder.com/

LEO's living and working along our border have had their homes shot at and have had bounties placed on their heads.

Thank you, Luke, for putting my mind at ease in the knowledge that the status of things along our border are being recognized by citizens outside of Texas. It wasn't even a year ago when our GAME WARDENS took fire from drug runners at the border. I am all for any system that ensures that our men and women who serve us come home at night.

 

[MaximumVelocity]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shooter McGavin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I live in TX and I am glad to see that we will do what the FED wont. The next person in charge of the FED needs to step up border protection with military force if necessary. </div></div>

This ^^

It's getting a bit crazy down south. I hear story after story of problems and gunfights down there.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

In a recent incident that is far from unique, smugglers tried to get a very large drug shipment across to 2 pickup trucks on the American side. They were detected, border patrol showed up with what looked in the photos like a dozen men, and the crazy smuggler suppliers still on the Mexican side starting pouring fully automatic fire into the U.S. at the agents. The agents poured MORE counter fire at the smuggler suppliers, and they got the message and left - without the drugs.

There were just under 4000 POUNDS of Marijuana in that one shipment. Using the lowest, most conservative, lowest quality price for Marijuana, that's $4 million.

The reason for the intense firefight attempt was that no smuggler wants to go home to tell the boss he lost $4 million of the boss's product. The penalty for such incompetence is worse than a mere death, it is a SLOW death.

Knowing that, would you want to face those smugglers with less than the strongest weaponry you can carry?

By the way, here in Austin, we lose at least 60 heavy duty pickup trucks per DAY, stolen by cartel gang members, and used as disposables in the smuggling efforts. One of the "popular" places to steal from is the parking lot of the HEB grocery store where my wife works, because every 2nd vehicle sold in Texas is a pickup truck, and the area around that store is wealthy. These cartel guys like to steal great condition 4 wheel drive F250s and F350s, because they are tough and carry a great payload (3000 lb carrying capacity and up).

Highway Patrol stops, usually caused by a simple traffic violation, often result in a search of the vehicle after the driver or an occupant "exhibits signs of criminal behavior". Large amounts of cash are often found. One stop found SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS IN CASH in the vehicle. Do you think the occupants wanted to just give up without a fight, and tell the boss, from jail, where the cartel has numerous "assets", that they "lost" his $600K by attracting the attention of the Highway Patrol? No way. They want to fight it out. They have nothing to lose, and either freedom or a QUICK death to gain.

The veneer of civilized society can be pretty thin at times and in places.

Jim G

 

[battle-scarred]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

what really sucks is how many american weapons i see in those photos. american ar-15s, m-249, law rocket launcher, m-67 frags. WTF!?!?

 

[tomthebaker]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

"But, I don't know where we're gonna find a boat fast enough to catch 'em. Call my brother-in-law, Billy Bob. He's got the fastest boat on the whole damn river."

- Live and Let Die script

 

[Charger442]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: battle-scarred</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what really sucks is how many american weapons i see in those photos. american ar-15s, m-249, law rocket launcher, m-67 frags. WTF!?!?

</div></div>

we have supplied a ton of weapons to different countries in south america. Columbian rebels, etc. any of those weapons can be had at a price, run through third world countries to get to mexico. The lefty anit-gunners would have the average american believe that those are all readily available guns for sale in the USA. unless all the Aks and ARs are all semi-automatic, that aint the case.

 

[Hntelk]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

Jim, I think they should have ordered a dozen of those boats... They look great and I am glad they are doing this to help the guys on the front lines on the border wars!!

 

[JPaul]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

We had one of those boats down here at Amistad. Awsome looking boats, but overkill in my opinion. Here the runners that move over water use bass boats faster than the DPS boat, not to mention the Border Patrol, Park Service, and Game Warden boats wich are really slow. The runners dont shoot, they just run back to Mexico. They do not shoot cause they know they will make it so LEOs just stop at the boundry markers. DPS should have bought another Hughes instead.

 

[Grump]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Saw these a few weeks ago as well. I'm all for protecting the border but this seems like overkill/overspending. How have you guys been outgunned?

At any rate tell the guys to stay safe and see if I can get a ride! </div></div>
Aw piss off!

This includes BORDER protection. It's long since high time we were willing to vaporize everything and everyone who tries to cross over illegally.

That sentiment, of course, will become more important once we stop letting al Queda operatives overstay their visas... As Clinton's "Operation Gatekeeper" showed, close down one easy route into the country, and they shift over to the next-easiest one.

I want that next-easiest route into the country to be right past one of those boats.

I just don't see this tool being used against Joe Sixpack...UNLIKE those police stations full of full-auto SWAT nonsense. That's just plain stupid.

 

[Ultraman550]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

They should allow Border control to fire at will upon anybody crossing the border. I feel sorry for the upstanding hard working farmer that has to watch those two legged rats scramble across their fields and into their state only to devalue the beauty of Texas. It's hard to say that because there are innocent families who just want to escape the poverty and crime but a message needs to be sent.

 

[SPDSNYPR]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ddavis</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The machine guns are really unnecessary. </div></div>

Please explain. Regale us with all of your experience in the job they do, since you seem to know what is necessary for their job and what isn't.

 

[dmg308]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

Looks like a Yellowfin good fast stable hull.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hntelk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jim, I think they should have ordered a dozen of those boats... They look great and I am glad they are doing this to help the guys on the front lines on the border wars!! </div></div>

They ordered 6. 3 for river patrol and 3 for Intrercoastal Waterway patrol.

Jim G

 

[db_17_85]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

On a side note....those appear to be M-240 Bravos. If it's anything like the one I had the "joy" of humping around, it's not select fire. Not saying it can't be, but it seems semi would play hell on the sear. That being said, I would be willing to help pay for that or even M2's, Mk19's or a damn twin mount 20mm if it helps keep this trash out of our country. God bless ALL of our fighters on the border. Stay safe guys.

 

[db_17_85]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

Oh, and don't hesitate to turn the gas plug to the third setting. It's a little harder on her, but boy does she sing!

 

[Dirty D]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Saw these a few weeks ago as well. I'm all for protecting the border but this seems like overkill/overspending. How have you guys been outgunned?</div></div>

Back in the early 90's one of the Coasties from the sar station in San Juan PR said they would get distress calls at night from the mangrove swamp, they would go in for a rescue and take fire from the trees. This happened several times until one night they returned fire with a couple of M60's, they never got shot at again.

 

[Slapchop]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ddavis</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I saw pictures of it a couple weeks ago I was wondering in what situation would the DPS be given the go-ahead to open fire with the mounted machine guns. The machine guns are really unnecessary. US Border Patrol uses similar boats, but they just carry M4's. More than adequate. It's a neat boat and all, <span style="color: #FF0000">but someone went a bit overboard with taxpayer money. </span>
-Dan </div></div>

I'd MUCH rather see my hard earned tax dollars go toward something like these boats which will help protect these DPS guys and enable them to better do their jobs as opposed to spending tax money on welfare and other "social aid" programs.

Job well done Texas.

 

[scharfschutze762]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

Hey where do you work in NY Slapchop?

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

I'm a guy that disagrees w/ the militarization of police but the border is a whole different ballgame...

I hate that the state of Texas has to have such a boat, I'd much rather see our military patrol the border, but that isn't happening...

so I'm fine w/ these boats on the border

 

[scharfschutze762]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

If some of you people have been down to the border towns in TX you would rethink your opinions of these little boats. Im also against police militarization but in this case Id have mini guns on them to shoot back at the Mexican army that fire at our cops, and hell maybe even a chain gun to shoot down all the damn drug planes that fly over daily for drug drops in west Tx. The American landowners down there are almost helpless.

 

[Wintermute]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

Yeah, I'm all for them having guns...shoulda put a couple of M2's on it for good measure. Of course, I also think us civvy types should be able to go buy an M2 FA that was made yesterday so...

--Wintermute

 

[adam1122]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

Im a fellow Dps guy myself. For those that work along the border and protect it from the cartels this boat is TOTALLY necessary. 45,000 people have been killed in the past few years in Mexico and its spilling over into Texas. The cartels are armed with American and foreign weapons that range all the way up to a full auto Browning M2 50cal. I dont think a simple M4 is gonnna cut it against that.

Im glad the state got these boats...Im just sad we didnt get more than 6 of them. We should have got 30! These guys have alot of water to cover in order to ensure nobody gets across. As a side note, the boat folks will be getting trained by some of the SWCC miltary boat units. Expect some ass kicking to ensue shortly.

As a cool fact, the 300hp outboards have Kevlar encased engine hoods on them so good luck trying to stop those boats you lousy aliens and dope smugglers. Have fun on the receiving end of 6 heavy MG's.

 

[whiteLiftedz71]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

I knew these were in the works a year or so ago when DPS came and asked for advice on which weapons system to run. Anyway this picture is a few months old when we were testing the Yellowfins and I was running some of the Officers through some 240 training.

Fine boats and fine weapon system DPS did well.

 

[Jmilera]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

It's good to see they are finally arming DPS with better tools , but they are going to need more firepower if they will patrol in the Laredo Texas area and Zapata Texas area. I live in Laredo " not for long" and we frequently see helo on the Mexican side firing down onto Nuevo Laredo area. We have heard loud explosions in the downtown area. It is just a matter of time before something lands on the American side.
I was fishing Falcon Lake two years ago and some cartel guys decided it would be wise to shoot at a Mexican Marina helo, the Mexican Army launched what seem to be a high power low cyclic rate artillery weapon at them and proceeded to lite up the shore line. This was within 500 yards of our boat.
It is just a matter of time gents before we might have to defend our home.
Here is a question for you guys, how many countries would tolerate a foreign country invading their air space with fully armed helos and armored vehicles?
Well Fucken Laredo has done just that three times!

 

[ddavis]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SPDSNYPR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ddavis</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The machine guns are really unnecessary. </div></div>

Please explain. Regale us with all of your experience in the job they do, since you seem to know what is necessary for their job and what isn't. </div></div>

Never said that. I just stated that having 6 machine guns on a boat seems a bit overkill when one mounted on the bow (like the USCG boats which patrol the same waters) would have been sufficient. I live in Corpus Christi. Close enough to the border to see the crap that goes on. I work for the state and am on a boat usually 2-3 times a week, sometimes more. I see the big Border Patrol boat often. We call it "big sexy." When the USCG was on a patrol with us once, they even challenged the big boat to a race. The Border Patrol guys declined. I think they were scared.

I've been down to the land cut a few times at work where you are 2-3 hours from help if something goes wrong. It is an avenue for drug smuggling. The guys dress up like fishermen, and the only way they get caught is when they don't quite have something right, like having Zebcos with the tag still on them, when they are on a $50K boat wearing nice fishing gear.

I'm not saying I know more than they do, but I think the boat was more of a show and tell political statement more than anything, which is maybe just what is needed. If it strikes fear into the minds of the dirtbags, then go for it.
-Dan

 

[adam1122]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

I would like to see my tax dollars outfit the border patrol with "upgraded" SWCC style boats. When I say upgraded I mean bigger engines....still powered by jet pump for shallow water. An advanced FLIR system mounted on the front and rear of the top. And lastly, the ability to launch one of the new small hadnheld drones with cameras so the guys on the boat can check out whats around the corner of the rivers before they roll up on them and light them up.

42 feet would probably be a great size to compromise between speed and agility and the ability to carry all of the hardware.

I pay taxes and I expect us to protect out borders with full use of force when neccesary. Yes, they can use the boats to fish out some poor swimming wanna be illegal aliens but the narco-terrorists require something that will make them think twice before they decide to use the river as a means of smuggling.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

Hopefully, Texas DPS will arm their Helicopters next and I don’t mean with small arms either

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

I'd like to see armed helos on the border... possibly even fixed wing... not necessarily new top of the line fighter jets, but some air support... A10s maybe...but I'm really thinking turbo prop... something like a few old Hawker Typhoons would be hell against the cartels.

Hell I seriously hate that LE is having to deal w/ this problem, let the military secure the border.

 

[Jmilera]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

Until we as a nation realize that the Border is a fucken line on a piece of paper we will not see an end to the problem with illegals crossing. A good bud of mine that supervises the BP locally and is an instructor for the military in Quantico once said " we need to DMZ the border" the first brown pile of flesh will send a good message. They have absolutely no fear of Americans. Why would they, we pay for their medical care and meals when they get incarcerated. Shit I had to pay for my grandmothers dentures because her hard earned Medicare insurance would not cover it. These assholes get new teeth!!!!!
Sorry guys it just pisses me off.

 

[Sleeper]

Re: TX DPS - More than semiauto AND faster

Boats on the water, Bradleys on the shore! Sounds good to me.