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Uhh... McRees may want to rethink this one? Maybe?

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overkill is underrated
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Minuteman
  • Feb 18, 2017
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    NE PA
    Apologies if this is the incorrect section or if there is another thread on this. A quick search didn't yield any results.

    Just curious if anyone else has seen this or know anything more about it? Could just be me, but trying to push liability on the end consumer might be one they regret in the morning.

    "After many years feeding the industry with awesome ideas/designs, we were forced to start protecting our latest technologies.
    Our stock systems now contain design features that have been granted multiple US Patents. You can read more at www.mcreepat.com
    Let everyone be on notice.
    We are aware,,,,,,we are watching,,,,,,,,,"
     

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    What the???
    Im curious how/if this concerns MPA, and also XLR with the Envy chassis?

    OP may be right, it is not a good idea for em to start drama with some of the most beloved names in the industry over a bunch of bubbles. Of course, that may not be what is happening here and it could be nothing serious. Ill wait and see.
     
    I don't think the OP is referring to them starting drama with other companies. If their claims are legitimate, then the infringing companies are exactly who the drama should be directed at. The statement the OP posted said they would hold the end purchaser responsible for the infringement. That's you and me. That's the most asinine statement I've ever seen a company direct at its customer base. I'm not an attorney, but I'm pretty damn sure I'm not obligated to initiate a patent search, to determine if any infringement has occurred, every time I purchase a product. This would appear to be a scare tactic intended to eliminate the need for a costly patent infringement suit.

    The OP is correct about this being a decision they may regret, because I'm betting I'm not the only potential customer that doesn't respond well to threats. I just hope McCrees Precision rounded all the sharp edges off their current stock of products, because they can take the whole nine yards and stick it up their collective asses, as far as I'm concerned. I love chassis, but I'll never own one of theirs, and neither will anyone else that I can talk out of it. I'd whittle a wooden bill and peck shit with the chickens first.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: redleg1013
    I read that many many months ago on their G7 pamphlet and was put off by it as well. If it is a scare tactic towards the end consumer then i too find it kind of desperate sounding, but hey, its his company and his call. Im sure with the popularity soaring in the precision market these companies can afford to run off alot of potential customers. . . . .
     
    I read that many many months ago on their G7 pamphlet and was put off by it as well. If it is a scare tactic towards the end consumer then i too find it kind of desperate sounding, but hey, its his company and his call. Im sure with the popularity soaring in the precision market these companies can afford to run off alot of potential customers. . . . .

    I completely agree, sir. Unfortunately, the market is probably large enough that this won't affect them much, if at all. There are plenty of people out there that have no scruples when it comes to patronizing a company with questionable business practices. I guess I'm a little old fashioned, but I still believe that the customer is always right, and you can learn all you need to know about a company by the way they treat their customers. Hell, I even believe that to tip is my prerogative for receiving good service, not my obligation to subsidize the payroll of an unscrupulous business; and I won't eat in a restaurant that adds the gratuity to the bill.

    I guess I just don't fit the modern consumer model. Oh well, my bad.
     
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    Reactions: redleg1013
    mcrees cant afford to run anyone off these days. their lack of innovation and willingness to stay current with changes and times has hurt them. rather than developing new innovative things for the precision rifle market they decide that guarding a $.25 cent level in the stock that is useless as tits on a boar as more important. well we will see now.
     
    Wow, threats to go with their fucking ugly chassis. Seems pretty low to target consumers rather than the competition.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: sjoliat
    I'm surprised and disappointed. I agree they can't afford to run anyone off these days. You see very few McRees Chassis at PRS matches these days.
     
    Never had one and a lot to do with the shovel cheek piece, but after reading that threat, I would never buy one.
     
    Honestly I wasn't trying to start a McRees protest. I've never even used one of their chassis; I just thought that it was an odd way to handle this situation.

    If they do have the patent and it's rightfully 'their technology' I can respect that. But it seems going after the end consumer is maybe not the best course of action.

    Pulling the patent card on a very small feature to take a shot at some of their competitors' market share... seems a little petty. Hopefully they have a patent for making chassis that look like 2x4s.
     
    Thats not how IP rights work..
    I had one of their stocks, they part which the AR type pistol grip attached to was square ended and every time i fired my 308 it would nail my knuckles or other bits of hand with the sharp corners.
     
    I don't give a fuck for two reasons

    1. I would never buy their product because there are better options
    2. Their threat to sue consumers/end users is hollow

     
    • Like
    Reactions: redleg1013
    I absolutely love my two Mcrees chassis and ive found the company to be awesome to deal with on the phone. A silly so called threat like this printed on the instruction sheet that comes with your chassis is rather benign to me and i am purchasing a G10 soon as they list them for a savage....... but soon as i read i thought wow thats kinda jacked up.
     
    The joke is on them because I have a patent on threatening to sue the customer base.

    I own that threat! Anyone who uses that will force me to also sue their customers? Wait, who does this thing work again?


    Sucks for McRee, but I thought people quit shooting their chassis YEARS ago.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: sjoliat
    Unacceptable. I would definitely not do business with that company. HOW is the consumer supposed to know if another company has infringed on their patent? If you bought the other company's chassis, you wouldn't get the threatening warning sticker from McRee to let you know now would you? I'm not even sure they COULD sue you for buying a product that is legally for sale. It is their responsibility to go after their competition for infringement, not ours. Yes, it is a hollow threat, but a STUPID PR move.
     
    I absolutely love my two Mcrees chassis and ive found the company to be awesome to deal with on the phone. A silly so called threat like this printed on the instruction sheet that comes with your chassis is rather benign to me and i am purchasing a G10 soon as they list them for a savage....... but soon as i read i thought wow thats kinda jacked up.

    Wait a minute....They print that on the instructions sheet that comes with their chassis???? So the people that receive it are the people that already bought their chassis, yet the threats are towards everyone who bought a different chassis? Brilliant.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: damoncali
    This seems like a terrible idea and whoever decided is was in their best interested should be fired. In a market where there's a handful of options at the same price-point, you're not going to win anyone over by a threat that no court would touch.
     
    I'm not sure how to read that. I mean not that I care, I do Manners, but are they saying you can only buy a Mcree from them or an authorized dealer, or that you can only buy their stock that has a built in level?
     
    I'm not sure how to read that. I mean not that I care, I do Manners, but are they saying you can only buy a Mcree from them or an authorized dealer, or that you can only buy their stock that has a built in level?

    They're saying that if you, the consumer, buy any stock or chassis other than a McRees with an integrated cant level, you can be held liable for damages resulting from violating their patent.

    It's a baseless threat but the fact that they even put that statement out for the public to read is... a questionable PR decision at best.
     
    mcrees cant afford to run anyone off these days. their lack of innovation and willingness to stay current with changes and times has hurt them. rather than developing new innovative things for the precision rifle market they decide that guarding a $.25 cent level in the stock that is useless as tits on a boar as more important. well we will see now.

    Not trying to stir the pot, but hearing this come from someone who shoots for them really shows the magnitude of how fucked their decision was for this.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Is it Illegal to Buy Counterfeit Goods?

    In the U.S., federal law protecting trademarks makes it illegal to knowingly traffic counterfeit goods, which includes the production, sale and transport of such goods. The U.S. Department of Justice, however, has stated that federal law doesn’t prohibit an individual from buying a counterfeit product for personal use, even if they do so knowingly.

     
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    Reactions: redleg1013
    they need to change the wording from purchasing/purchaser to purveyor/vendor.

    they need to fire their legal and hire a proof reader.
     
    They've actually doubled-down on their claim that they could go after the end user on their Facebook page. Idiots.
     
    They've actually doubled-down on their claim that they could go after the end user on their Facebook page. Idiots.

    So they're going to hire a PI to find the names and addresses of every MPA stock owner? I could see them being more successful by going after the vendors of MPA chassis. That would work pretty well actually but not the end user.
     
    Is it Illegal to Buy Counterfeit Goods?

    In the U.S., federal law protecting trademarks makes it illegal to knowingly traffic counterfeit goods, which includes the production, sale and transport of such goods. The U.S. Department of Justice, however, has stated that federal law doesn’t prohibit an individual from buying a counterfeit product for personal use, even if they do so knowingly.

    This applies to a straight out McRee's knock off. Does that even exist?

    McRee's went further retarded with their patent claim on the site that as the end user, they would come after you for basically using anything that has a bubble level somehow in the stock. A few things on that:

    - 99% of people have no idea who they are, or about the patent
    - The 'bubble level' patent is a fucking joke
    - You can't go after the end user; if you go after anyone for copyright infringement its the manufacturer/sales arm
    - LOL

    Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Apparently we are aware now, and guess what McRees, we're watching too.
     
    Well, this is disappointing to read. I never really cared about McRees one way or another, but recently bought one of the limited edition Tikka's from Europtic that happens to come in a G10 stock. The G10 seems to have pretty good ergonomics and I will shoot it in a local match here on Sunday. The bubble level in the stock is a complete joke though. As Killswitch so succinctly put it, the level is "a $.25 cent level in the stock that is useless as tits on a boar..." Truly If I were to purchase a chassis straight out, it would be an MPA and now that I see this I cannot really recommend this stock to anyone unless there is the caveat about how McRees chooses to do business.

    In today's consumer market, with all of the easy internet access and quick spread of information, attacking the consumer is usually a moron move. As much as I support a companies' right to aggressively pursue enforcement of patent rights, going after their potential customer base is about a boneheaded move at best. "Stupid is as stupid does."
     
    My Mcree folder has been rotting in the For Sale section at 425 shipped....that was even before this news broke. Good thing these things are crazy heavy, I'll make out like a bandit at the scrap yard.
     
    mcrees cant afford to run anyone off these days. their lack of innovation and willingness to stay current with changes and times has hurt them. rather than developing new innovative things for the precision rifle market they decide that guarding a $.25 cent level in the stock that is useless as tits on a boar as more important. well we will see now.

    BINGO!!!!

    Its a stupid idea in the first place. If youre going to fall all over your sword over that kind of bullshit then you dont deserve my business anyways.
     
    Sad. Just sad. Not a customer, was just beginning to take an interest in chassis. Just another reason not to.

    Greg
     
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    I was not a fan before of Mcrees but I definitely am not now and will never buy one of their chassis.
     
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    mcrees cant afford to run anyone off these days. their lack of innovation and willingness to stay current with changes and times has hurt them. rather than developing new innovative things for the precision rifle market they decide that guarding a $.25 cent level in the stock that is useless as tits on a boar as more important. well we will see now.

    Absolutely agree. This isn't something any dude in his shop or garage couldn't come up with and I won't be fucking surprised at all if there's prior art regarding what Mcrees apparently thinks is one step above discovering a true cold fusion reactor. Bye bye, Mcrees.
     
    Gents and especially gunsmiths, time to find prior implementations of this. I'm pretty sure there's documented instances of folks doing this long before Mcrees "discovered" it. That's how you fight patent trolls.
     
    Gents and especially gunsmiths, time to find prior implementations of this. I'm pretty sure there's documented instances of folks doing this long before Mcrees "discovered" it. That's how you fight patent trolls.

    I don't think it matters. If McRees filed for and was granted the patent first, I believe they own the rights to it. Doesn't matter when the first implementation occurred or whether or not it was documented.

    I don't disagree with the principle... the PR side of it is what most of us are questioning.
     
    This was all discussed on their Facebook page, they filed for the patent in 2014 (I believe) and a guy has already posted evidence on cal guns of him machining in cheap bubbles into stocks for people as early as 2010.
     
    This was all discussed on their Facebook page, they filed for the patent in 2014 (I believe) and a guy has already posted evidence on cal guns of him machining in cheap bubbles into stocks for people as early as 2010.

    I'm not a lawyer but I don't think it matters. If he didn't file for the patent, it doesn't matter when or who first conceived the idea. If McRees filed for it first, and McRees was granted the patent, McRees gets the rights to it...

    Again I don't think anyone is arguing about the patent itself. It's McRees saying they're going after the end consumer that is inconceivably stupid.
     
    Not trying to stir the pot, but hearing this come from someone who shoots for them really shows the magnitude of how fucked their decision was for this.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Should be shot for them. He is now on team SAC

    I wasn't going to say it...but exactly what I was thinking
     
    I'm not a lawyer but I don't think it matters. If he didn't file for the patent, it doesn't matter when or who first conceived the idea. If McRees filed for it first, and McRees was granted the patent, McRees gets the rights to it...

    Again I don't think anyone is arguing about the patent itself. It's McRees saying they're going after the end consumer that is inconceivably stupid.

    I am not a lawyer but the term "relative degree of cant" is what will hurt McRees if they actually move forward with this. The MPA and XLR it is either centered, left, or right. With the G7 and G10 there is actual tick marks engraved on the chassis which allows you to know the degree of cant.

    From a legal standpoint it holds no water as neither MPA nor XLR infringed on their "relative degree of cant" indicator." If they had just called it a cant indicator I think they would have grounds, but not with the phrase relative degree. Just my 2 cents.
     
    Conversation similar to this came up with a knife maker who was being ripped off by over seas counterfeits. Trademarks especially need to be actively defended.

    So a company who willing allows themselves to be ripped off with out defending their trademark can effectively lose the right to protect it later.

    I don't believe that holds true for patents but it may to some degree. Either way mcree went about this the wrong way


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
    It comes off as desperate in my eyes. Rather than innovating and adopting features consumers desire they're digging their heels in and making a stand behind a bubble level.

    Hold the consumer responsible? Good luck.
     
    here is a reply on the facebook page from a Gun Patent Attorney

    Ben Langlotz I have analyzed your patent and it is VERY narrow and certainly does not cover EVERY embedded level. There are embedded indicators years before you filed your patent application which makes some claims of your patent invalid, and your threats to the customers of your competitors both empty and probably legally actionable. --Gun Patent Attorney Ben Langlotz

    Ben Langlotz Here's one example of how narrow the patents are, and how most bubble stocks would not infringe:
    1. A rifle used by a shooter having stock section housing a firing pin assembly, a grip section, an action receiver, a barrel with a centerline axis and a cant measuring device comprising:
    a) a solid block having a front side facing toward the rear of the action receiver, a back side contacting the rifle's stock section, a bottom side contacting the rifle's grip section and left and right sides parallel to the centerline axis of the barrel;
    b) a tubular cavity bored within the solid block having a center that intersects the vertical plane of and is perpendicular to the centerline axis of the barrel having a first end open on one side and a second end closed on the other side of the solid block;
    c) a top side having a view port created by removing material from the solid block such that the cavity can be viewed by the rifle's shooter;
    d) a bubble level inserted into said cavity such that when the rifle's grip section is perpendicular to the centerline axis of the barrel, the center of the bubble is aligned with the centerline axis of the rifle's barrel such that the bubble moves perpendicular to the centerline axis of the barrel as the rifle is rotated about the centerline axis of the barrel.
    Like
    · Reply · 1212
    · August 23 at 5:08pm
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    [IMG2=JSON]{"alt":"Matt Utroska","data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net\/v\/t1.0-1\/p48x48\/20294322_1440743642678373_8695044729141659967_n.jpg?oh=3f75d029f152c313610f4590c3ef6cc7&oe=5A1FCE8F"}[/IMG2]
    Matt Utroska That doesn't seem very narrow to me. Looks like it covers a broad spectrum of imbedded levels in stocks.
    Like
    · Reply · August 23 at 5:59pm · Edited
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    [IMG2=JSON]{"alt":"Ben Langlotz","data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net\/v\/t1.0-1\/p48x48\/21032696_10210058916210450_4074286278815592851_n.jpg?oh=9169f7d20c3986667dfd1806a46d5f68&oe=5A1F175D"}[/IMG2]
    Ben Langlotz To infringe, every element of the claim must be present. An almost identical competitor that differs only in having tapered sides instead of parallel avoids the patent. Or if there is a small hole on the right side instead of being closed. Of if the stock is formed with the hole instead of material being removed. Or if the level is shifted to one side. Of if the block that contains the level's below the action instead of behind it. Or...

    Yet the threat to their own potential customers falsely suggests that any bubble level in a stock will get the customer sued. I'm not sure that unjustified legal threats are the best way to win customers.








     
    Does SAC still push the Mcree? When he did a build for me, he tried his best to push one on me.

    mark/sac doesnt push any products. customers are free to choose whatever products they want.

    the team shooters are able to utilize products from many vendors in our team builds for match season. i am utilizing MPA chassis in my builds currently.