ultimate prairie dog ar-15. buy vs build.

[Smcarroll]

I am looking into building myself a purpose built ar-15 for prairie dog shooting. My 700 sps varmint is a 1:12" twist, not great for the 68-69 grain bullets I favor here in Wyoming. I already have a lower set up with a decent trigger and a PRS stock. I am looking at model 1 24" SS heavy barrel upper. It comes with a 1:8" twist. What BCG and buffer would be best for this setup and bullet weight?

The other option is build a upper. I would like to keep it about the same.

What says the hide?

 

[LV 426]

Prairie dog, .204 les bear 26"

 

[Smcarroll]

Prairie dog, .204 les bear 26"

Thanks so much for the advice.

 

[BLDTYLRY]

Any BCG should work but if you want a quality one check out JP Rifles. As for which buffer, get an adjustable gas block like Syrac or SLR Rifleworks; an adjustable block is easier than playing around with buffer weights or buffer spring weights.

 

[DirtyDave]

Any particular caliber you looking at? If I was doing an AR strictly for p-dogs, it would be in 204, 22-250, or one of the many 6mm offerings that fit in an AR15.
I wouldn't even mess with a 223. Though I do love my 6x45 with 75gr V-max's
24" or longer barrel.

 

[Smcarroll]

Sorry assumptions make an ass of me. I want to use 5.56 with a 68-69 grain bullet. I am currently using a r700 sps varmint in 223. I have zero problems with 223, I just want to build a tack driver ar-15 to splat these little devils.

I have enough bullets, powder and primers for a LOT of 69 gr 5.56, I don't really want to venture into stocking another caliber at this time.

 

[leadbullet]

I'd get one of the 6mm AR flavor in a varmint upper, good to 1000yds ( I know cause I got one) the 204 is no slouch either.
Cheers

 

[Smcarroll]

I really want this chambered in 5.56. I have a heap of rifles, I want a nice heavy ar-15 in 5.56 for prairie dog work out to maybe 400 yards.

 

[tickled pink]

I have a Colt LE 6920 M4 that I installed a Geissele SSA-E trigger. Then I ordered a (223/5.56) 18" upper with a 1 in 7" twist and had it full length fluted. White Oak Armament built the whole upper and I had it in my hands in 4 months. I put a Bushnell AR / 223 scope with 4.5-18x40mm zoom on top. I loaded Sierra 69 gr. HPBT Game Kings for a ladder test. The first time I shot it was with my reloaded Sierra 65. gr. SPHPs I used for deer hunting. I wanted to sight it in and foul the barrel before the ladder test. Here is a picture of the hunting 65 gr. 5 shot group. The first 5 shots with the 69 gr. BTHP Game Kings was smaller then this group.

White Oak Armament

WOA is noted for their accuracy and service. I bet mine would be a great prairie dog gun out to 600 plus yds.

It weighs exactly 11 pounds as you see it with a loaded 20 round magazine.

 

[Smcarroll]

I had a Colt LE 6920 M4 that I installed a Geissele SSA-E trigger. Then I ordered a (223/5.56) 18" upper with a 1 in 7" twist and had it full length fluted. White Oak Armament built the whole upper and I had it in my hands in 4 months. I put a Bushnell AR / 223 scope with 4.5-18x40mm zoom on top. I loaded Sierra 69 gr. HPBT Game Kings for a ladder test. The first time I shot it was with my Sierra 65. gr. SPHPs I used for deer hunting. I wanted to sight it in and foul the barrel before the ladder test. Here is a picture of the hunting 65 gr. 5 shot group. The first 5 shots with the 69 gr. BTHP Game Kings was smaller then this group.

White Oak Armament

Thank you for actually answering my question. Have you run it through a chrono? I know WOA is kinda hot right now but I don't know if I want to wait, pdog season is just getting started and I want to be shooting by summer.

 

[waveslayer]

I am looking into building myself a purpose built ar-15 for prairie dog shooting. My 700 sps varmint is a 1:12" twist, not great for the 68-69 grain bullets I favor here in Wyoming. I already have a lower set up with a decent trigger and a PRS stock. I am looking at model 1 24" SS heavy barrel upper. It comes with a 1:8" twist. What BCG and buffer would be best for this setup and bullet weight?

The other option is build a upper. I would like to keep it about the same.

What says the hide?

Get the RRA, especially for the money. You can't beat it. One of the most accurate AR'S or there

 

[tickled pink]

I haven't put it through a chrono and probably won't. When I find what is the accuracy load is I will stick with it. Then I will shoot a drop chart and have some stick on labels for the elevation turret which cost about $25 and are dead nuts accurate.

Custom Turret Systems | Affordable Custom Turret Labels (watch the video).

 

[Abandoned ship]

I free floated a BCM 20 inch gov profile upper and added a SSA-E trigger. I only have a PA 1-4x scope for it right now but i'm still getting about .75 inch groups at 100yds with 77gr nosler custom comps in LC brass 3031 powder 23.4gr (i think, i'm at work right now and don't have my cards) mag length. gun has a full a2 buttstock and a PSA premium BCG. Its gassed appropriately. its long especially with the APEX brake but its nice to shoot and not overly heavy.

I built it for varmit hunting. It does the job well. I would venture that WOA upper is more accurate however. Look at Rainier for barrels, build it yourself. RRA is meh in my opinion and definitely don't use their BCG.

 

[346ci]

For that type of build, I'd go with a ARP 20" .223 Wylde barrel(1x8 twist), ARP Superbolt, one of my NiB carriers, Mega upper and a good hand guard such as a 16.25" carbon fiber Lancer. I don't believe he has any of the 20" pipes in stock though. I need to place a bbl order with them tomorrow and will check.

I have 3 .223 uppers using their barrels and they love the 69gr bullets, I haven't tried any 77gr yet but don't see why they would not do well with those either. My 3 gun rifle is setup just as I mentioned above but has a 18" bbl. I'm not a fan of long AR barrels, IMO a 20" .223 barrel would be plenty considering the round. I've seen 16" barreled .223 rifles hit targets out to 600yds with no problems. A quality upper and barrel makes a difference.

 

[bob6117]

I agree with waveslayer on the Rock River Arms Varmint.
Heavy barrel for sustained Pdog slaying.
!/8 twist with a Wylde chamber for the 69 gr. and up.
Very accurate , and reasonably priced ( 700.00 msrp on their website )for the complete upper.
And you could probably find one for less.
I had one a few years ago , I was one of the most accurate rifles I had I should of kept it.

 

[elfster1234]

Just get a rock river varmint with 20inch barrel. It will blow most rifles out of the water for half the price. Ive had two people now that NEVER shoot rifles at all just jump on my rra varmint and produce sub moa groups consistently at 100yards

Put on a non qd mount with a min 4-16 scope

I am looking into building myself a purpose built ar-15 for prairie dog shooting. My 700 sps varmint is a 1:12" twist, not great for the 68-69 grain bullets I favor here in Wyoming. I already have a lower set up with a decent trigger and a PRS stock. I am looking at model 1 24" SS heavy barrel upper. It comes with a 1:8" twist. What BCG and buffer would be best for this setup and bullet weight?

The other option is build a upper. I would like to keep it about the same.

What says the hide?

 

[rpk762]

Any bcg will work. I shoot a 1:8 twist 223 using 50gr TNT. Sure wind pushes them around but even here in ND it is not to the point where you can not shoot. I have shot thousands of pdogs.

 

[DirtyDave]

Out to 400yds? You wont be needing a 24" or 26" barrel for that
20" RRA with 1:8 will get it done for a lot less money.
I had the 20" Predator Pursuit and should have never sold it.

 

[tickled pink]

Thank you for actually answering my question. Have you run it through a chrono? I know WOA is kinda hot right now but I don't know if I want to wait, pdog season is just getting started and I want to be shooting by summer.

My suggestion is to call Jane a WOA and see if they have a barrel and gas block and gas tube on hand that you want. You may get lucky and have one in less than a week since you want to build yours. They shorten the chamber a little to shorten the bullet jump which can add to the accuracy.

 

[Smcarroll]

Are the model 1 24" stainless uppers any good? I can get one delivered for under 450$ with a 24" SS flutes barrel. I only need an upper, I already have the bottom half.

 

[Smcarroll]

Any bcg will work. I shoot a 1:8 twist 223 using 50gr TNT. Sure wind pushes them around but even here in ND it is not to the point where you can not shoot. I have shot thousands of pdogs.

I have been using 55 gr sierras but I want to start using 69 gr bullets, they drift a whole lot less and if I want to take a coyote at extended ranges there is more killing power behind them.

 

[elfster1234]

ive shot all of my 5.56 RRA's that have 18" and 20" barrel out to 600yards with 60grn vmax and 1:8 twist with amazing results... I even have some 5shot groups under 3" @ 600yards!


RRA ATH 18" HEAVY BARREL

600yards with ATH

RRA VARMINT 20" BULL BARREL

600YARDS WITH ARMINT

Out to 400yds? You wont be needing a 24" or 26" barrel for that
20" RRA with 1:8 will get it done for a lot less money.
I had the 20" Predator Pursuit and should have never sold it.

 

[zlman]

I've built two pdog slayers, their a mixed bag of components. Both are 20" bull barrels 1/8 twist chambered in .223, free floated handguards. Model 1 sales and a DPMS. Neither is a high dollar barrel under $200/ea but they out shoot my abilities all day. Being that you're a reloader you'll be able to tailor a load that your barrel loves, for me 55gr v-max over H335 is a laser beam. 55gr SP work very well also and I'll be working up some accuracy loads soon.
I don't think you have to spend huge money to get the results you're after, unless you're able. Once I found the sweet spot on my reloads a great trigger took me to the next level, Geissele SSA-E for me.
Once you've got your barrel figured out, spend as much as you can on a quality glass optic. I'm running 6.5x20's, Zeiss and a Vortex. I like a BDC recticle with fine hash marks. The Vortex was 1/2 the price of my Zeiss and glass quality is very comparable, eye relief is more forgiving and not as finicky, I'll be selling the Zeiss for another Vortex soon.
Bolt carriers, I run JP's on both, do they make a difference? Probably not a lot, I've got friends using carbine AR's with mil-spec carriers, 16" barrels with attached hand guards, they kill more then their far share of dogs.
Good luck with your choices and have fun!

 

[Tangodown911]

My suggestion is to call Jane a WOA and see if they have a barrel and gas block and gas tube on hand that you want. You may get lucky and have one in less than a week since you want to build yours. They shorten the chamber a little to shorten the bullet jump which can add to the accuracy.

Yep see if they have any of the 20" sdm-r barrels that are fluted. Good barrels.

 

[Tangodown911]

Are the model 1 24" stainless uppers any good? I can get one delivered for under 450$ with a 24" SS flutes barrel. I only need an upper, I already have the bottom half.

I'm not a model 1 fan. RRA in the least. I've had high dollar stuff that was easily outshot by RRA Wilson and WOA barrels. Sad but lately (last 3years) I'm not seeing "you get what you pay for" in barrels. Wherever you buy see if you can get a matched bolt. While it's not a deal breaker it's an added level of comfort.

LMT or BCM, if you want the best carrier group in my opinion. PSA groups are looking ok too. Especially the price.

 

[waveslayer]

I have 3 RRA's and a buddy has 3 as well. With good ammo we are getting sub MOA all day long. With my R3 with some reloads I am getting below an inch at 200 yards. Trust me for the money you can't beat it. I laugh at all my friends that bought LaRue etc... even a custom Christensen Arms won't promise a inch at 100... Why is that. Because they can't do it unless you reload.

 

[elfster1234]

in terms of 5.56 (not 7.62) for what I do, as a weekend warrior, knowing what I know now after spending loads of money on AR's and ammo, even if I had the money to blow on an expensive 5.56 AR, I'd still just get a RRA varmint for group bug hole shooting groups. I got mine shipped out the door for about $950 and its amazing. I'm on my 5th RRA and they never let me down with no FTE, FTF blah blah blah


this rifle with a nice solid mount & 3-15 / 4-15 / or 6-20 scope will be a shooter out of the box IMO: Rock River Arms 20 inch SS Varmint A4 New : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com

I'm even a fan of the good old A2 stock for rear owl ear sand bags. Simple & works.

I've built two pdog slayers, their a mixed bag of components. Both are 20" bull barrels 1/8 twist chambered in .223, free floated handguards. Model 1 sales and a DPMS. Neither is a high dollar barrel under $200/ea but they out shoot my abilities all day. Being that you're a reloader you'll be able to tailor a load that your barrel loves, for me 55gr v-max over H335 is a laser beam. 55gr SP work very well also and I'll be working up some accuracy loads soon.
I don't think you have to spend huge money to get the results you're after, unless you're able. Once I found the sweet spot on my reloads a great trigger took me to the next level, Geissele SSA-E for me.
Once you've got your barrel figured out, spend as much as you can on a quality glass optic. I'm running 6.5x20's, Zeiss and a Vortex. I like a BDC recticle with fine hash marks. The Vortex was 1/2 the price of my Zeiss and glass quality is very comparable, eye relief is more forgiving and not as finicky, I'll be selling the Zeiss for another Vortex soon.
Bolt carriers, I run JP's on both, do they make a difference? Probably not a lot, I've got friends using carbine AR's with mil-spec carriers, 16" barrels with attached hand guards, they kill more then their far share of dogs.
Good luck with your choices and have fun!

 

[Smcarroll]

All I want is an upper, I already have a complete bottom half with a prs stock. I do like the a2 stock though.

 

[jwb47]

every rock river arms rifle I have owned has been very accurate . pk firearms has complete uppers in stock . I have delt with them before and they are very fast in shipping and only list what is in stock . PK Firearms | Online Store

 

[Smcarroll]

every rock river arms rifle I have owned has been very accurate . pk firearms has complete uppers in stock . I have delt with them before and they are very fast in shipping and only list what is in stock . PK Firearms | Online Store

Not bad at all. I was looking at the price and then adding on the price of a bcg + handle. I like their 24" varmint A4. 700$ and it has a full length rail so I can add a night vision device. Thanks for the link.

 

[BurnOut]

I am looking into building myself a purpose built ar-15 for prairie dog shooting. My 700 sps varmint is a 1:12" twist, not great for the 68-69 grain bullets I favor here in Wyoming. I already have a lower set up with a decent trigger and a PRS stock. I am looking at model 1 24" SS heavy barrel upper. It comes with a 1:8" twist. What BCG and buffer would be best for this setup and bullet weight?

The other option is build a upper. I would like to keep it about the same.

What says the hide?

To answer your original question, I have been very happy with the JP Silent Captured Spring setup for the recoil spring/buffer. It's heavy, but for a varmint rig that's not that big of a deal (read: since you're unlikely to be shooting freehand).

Out to the 400-ish yard range that you specified, I see nothing at all wrong with the .223/5.56 round. FWIW, I have an 18" RRA 8 twist upper that seems to like Fiocchi's varmint loads (using the Hornady 50gr V-Max), so I would figure that bullets in the 69gr range would shoot fairly well also.