Below is a post I had in a different thread about the issues with my new POF (20" .308). If you haven’t seen them they will bring you up to speed (also a link to the original thread).
POF had my rifle less than 24hrs and already had it on the way back to me. They spec’d out the chamber, cleaned the “salt” like substance that is leftover from heat treating process and replaced the entire BGC. They also put 100rds of 4-5 different kinds of ammo through it to test its function.
When I got it back I tore it down real quick to look at everything, added just a smidge of lube to the BCG and took it too the 100m range last Friday.
I took three different kind of round with me:
PMC 147g (labeled .308/7.62x51, but stamped .308)
Sellier & Bellot (S&B) 147g .308
American Tactical (AT) 150g 7.62x51
I started by running the S&B. I put 40rds downrange and the rifle ran like a Swiss watch. Then I switched over to the PMC and ran 20rds downrange and that also ran to perfection. And surprisingly the point of aim changed very, very little. Then two friends ran another 20rds of PMC through it with no issues. Then I loaded up a mag of the AT. The first round went downrange, ejected the case, but did not strip a fresh round out of the mag when it went into battery. I pulled the charging handle to strip another round and let it fly. This time the case didn’t eject. It was “welded” firmly in the camber. Since I had the same issue the last time at the range I was prepared with a rod and used it to pop the case out. The case was HAMMERED! The extractor pulled the rim right off of it. I did a quick inspection, found the rim in the action, put everything back together and sent another 20rds of PMC downrange with no issues.
I’m very new to shooting at anything further than 50m and this is the first time I have ever used optics with magnification so my accuracy has to be take with a grain of salt. As far as I could tell the rifle shot wherever it was pointed. And at one point when I got my body position just how I wanted it (I was experimenting with position a lot) I managed to put three rounds through one ragged hole. Not exactly a scientific test but I think it’s fair to say the rifle is far better than me. I didn’t experience any “fliers” like some other people have had problems with their POF’s doing. And I was using “junk” ammo.
On my way home I called Cody at POF to see what he thought about it sticking the AT rounds. He has never used them before and asked “Are those the ones from Turkey?” I had no idea but when I got home I looked them up and they are. He had a theory that with some of the “Third World” rounds they use less then spectacular brass. It’s supposed to expand and seal the chamber during ignition and then “shrink” back down so the ejector can pull it out. But if the brass is “crap” it will expand, and stay expanded therefore sticking the case and/or ripping the rim off. I’m sending him 20rds of the AT today for him to test out on their rifles to see if they have the same issues or if it’s just my rifle.
Yesterday I went to Cabela’s and picked up 5 different kinds of round. All flavors, 7.62 and .308. They didn’t have any NATO stuff on the shelf but Cody said to pick up a box of Winchester 147g “White Box” because they got their tooling from Lake City and if it shoots the “White Box” it should eat the NATO rounds.
So I’m off to the range again this afternoon (if I have time) to see if it will eat everything I feed it.
I was a little disappointed the first time I ran the rifle because it was a complete “cluster”. But my spirits have been raised because of the over the top customer service that POF has provided. Short of coming to my house to go through the rifle there is nothing more that they could have done to get me set up and back out to the range.
Film at 11
<span style="color: #3333FF"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I went out to the local 100m range on Monday to run some rounds through the 20” .308 POF I just picked up last week and had all sorts of issues. It started by having feed issues which I just chalked up to it being new, tight and not run in. I had two different kinds of mag and the both acted the same. The more I shot the worse it got and at about the 40th round it stuck a case in the chamber HARD! The extractor was doing its best to get it out. Even to the point where it ripped part of the lip off so I highly doubt it had anything to do with the extractor. The range officer (RO) had a brass rod that I used to push the case out. Then we started looking at the spent brass. About 30% of them had the primers blown out! And every one had clearly been tugged on real hard by the extractor. The RO said he has been loading his own stuff for years and recommended I didn’t run that round anymore because it was “over pressuring”. So I switched to a different round. And that one was giving me fits also. Now I’m thinking it’s the rifle not the round. Then I ran a lighter 3rd kind of round I had with me and it didn’t give me any issues (10 rounds) but the cases were beat up pretty good. At that point the range was closing so we packed up and left.
On the way home I called POF and their tech guy told me that they do some sort of salt based process on the barrels/chambers and if they don’t clean them out PERFECTLY they will get “buildup” which could cause what I was experiencing. And the buildup is hard enough (crystalline in nature) so that a chamber brush will not get it out. They were more than helpful and offered to have me ship the rifle out to them ASAP at their cost but I told him I would take a look at it in the shop before I did that.
I tore the rifle down this morning on the bench and after getting a light shined down in the chamber good I could see that it looked like there may be some “stuff” between the lugs and the actual chamber which could have possibly kept the bolt from going all the way into battery (were talking thousands here). I took a shot at it with a chamber brush, no joy. So I got out my trusty “twisted tip” SnapOn pick out and took a few tentative pokes at it. To my surprise I got some pretty big chunks of black “crystalline” crap that was running all around the OD out of it out. It wasn’t too hard to get it with the pick and it looks to have cleaned up real good with the chamber brush and some brakekleen after that. I cleaned up the BCG and the inside of the upper and lower receivers, put a real light coating of lube on and put it all back together. It cycles by hand just fine and doesn’t seem to have any issues at all. But I have not been able to put more rounds through it yet and I won’t be able to till Thursday at the earliest.
I figured that I would run this past the POF guys and see if any one else has ever experienced this? What you did to fix it? Should I be looking for anything else? Etc.
Any insight would be appreciated. I don’t want to go to the range just to work on the gun. Or worse have an aborted attempt. I would rather “detail” anything anyone can think of while it’s on the bench.
Thanks a lot</div></div></span>
Link To Old Thread
POF had my rifle less than 24hrs and already had it on the way back to me. They spec’d out the chamber, cleaned the “salt” like substance that is leftover from heat treating process and replaced the entire BGC. They also put 100rds of 4-5 different kinds of ammo through it to test its function.
When I got it back I tore it down real quick to look at everything, added just a smidge of lube to the BCG and took it too the 100m range last Friday.
I took three different kind of round with me:
PMC 147g (labeled .308/7.62x51, but stamped .308)
Sellier & Bellot (S&B) 147g .308
American Tactical (AT) 150g 7.62x51
I started by running the S&B. I put 40rds downrange and the rifle ran like a Swiss watch. Then I switched over to the PMC and ran 20rds downrange and that also ran to perfection. And surprisingly the point of aim changed very, very little. Then two friends ran another 20rds of PMC through it with no issues. Then I loaded up a mag of the AT. The first round went downrange, ejected the case, but did not strip a fresh round out of the mag when it went into battery. I pulled the charging handle to strip another round and let it fly. This time the case didn’t eject. It was “welded” firmly in the camber. Since I had the same issue the last time at the range I was prepared with a rod and used it to pop the case out. The case was HAMMERED! The extractor pulled the rim right off of it. I did a quick inspection, found the rim in the action, put everything back together and sent another 20rds of PMC downrange with no issues.
I’m very new to shooting at anything further than 50m and this is the first time I have ever used optics with magnification so my accuracy has to be take with a grain of salt. As far as I could tell the rifle shot wherever it was pointed. And at one point when I got my body position just how I wanted it (I was experimenting with position a lot) I managed to put three rounds through one ragged hole. Not exactly a scientific test but I think it’s fair to say the rifle is far better than me. I didn’t experience any “fliers” like some other people have had problems with their POF’s doing. And I was using “junk” ammo.
On my way home I called Cody at POF to see what he thought about it sticking the AT rounds. He has never used them before and asked “Are those the ones from Turkey?” I had no idea but when I got home I looked them up and they are. He had a theory that with some of the “Third World” rounds they use less then spectacular brass. It’s supposed to expand and seal the chamber during ignition and then “shrink” back down so the ejector can pull it out. But if the brass is “crap” it will expand, and stay expanded therefore sticking the case and/or ripping the rim off. I’m sending him 20rds of the AT today for him to test out on their rifles to see if they have the same issues or if it’s just my rifle.
Yesterday I went to Cabela’s and picked up 5 different kinds of round. All flavors, 7.62 and .308. They didn’t have any NATO stuff on the shelf but Cody said to pick up a box of Winchester 147g “White Box” because they got their tooling from Lake City and if it shoots the “White Box” it should eat the NATO rounds.
So I’m off to the range again this afternoon (if I have time) to see if it will eat everything I feed it.
I was a little disappointed the first time I ran the rifle because it was a complete “cluster”. But my spirits have been raised because of the over the top customer service that POF has provided. Short of coming to my house to go through the rifle there is nothing more that they could have done to get me set up and back out to the range.
Film at 11
<span style="color: #3333FF"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I went out to the local 100m range on Monday to run some rounds through the 20” .308 POF I just picked up last week and had all sorts of issues. It started by having feed issues which I just chalked up to it being new, tight and not run in. I had two different kinds of mag and the both acted the same. The more I shot the worse it got and at about the 40th round it stuck a case in the chamber HARD! The extractor was doing its best to get it out. Even to the point where it ripped part of the lip off so I highly doubt it had anything to do with the extractor. The range officer (RO) had a brass rod that I used to push the case out. Then we started looking at the spent brass. About 30% of them had the primers blown out! And every one had clearly been tugged on real hard by the extractor. The RO said he has been loading his own stuff for years and recommended I didn’t run that round anymore because it was “over pressuring”. So I switched to a different round. And that one was giving me fits also. Now I’m thinking it’s the rifle not the round. Then I ran a lighter 3rd kind of round I had with me and it didn’t give me any issues (10 rounds) but the cases were beat up pretty good. At that point the range was closing so we packed up and left.
On the way home I called POF and their tech guy told me that they do some sort of salt based process on the barrels/chambers and if they don’t clean them out PERFECTLY they will get “buildup” which could cause what I was experiencing. And the buildup is hard enough (crystalline in nature) so that a chamber brush will not get it out. They were more than helpful and offered to have me ship the rifle out to them ASAP at their cost but I told him I would take a look at it in the shop before I did that.
I tore the rifle down this morning on the bench and after getting a light shined down in the chamber good I could see that it looked like there may be some “stuff” between the lugs and the actual chamber which could have possibly kept the bolt from going all the way into battery (were talking thousands here). I took a shot at it with a chamber brush, no joy. So I got out my trusty “twisted tip” SnapOn pick out and took a few tentative pokes at it. To my surprise I got some pretty big chunks of black “crystalline” crap that was running all around the OD out of it out. It wasn’t too hard to get it with the pick and it looks to have cleaned up real good with the chamber brush and some brakekleen after that. I cleaned up the BCG and the inside of the upper and lower receivers, put a real light coating of lube on and put it all back together. It cycles by hand just fine and doesn’t seem to have any issues at all. But I have not been able to put more rounds through it yet and I won’t be able to till Thursday at the earliest.
I figured that I would run this past the POF guys and see if any one else has ever experienced this? What you did to fix it? Should I be looking for anything else? Etc.
Any insight would be appreciated. I don’t want to go to the range just to work on the gun. Or worse have an aborted attempt. I would rather “detail” anything anyone can think of while it’s on the bench.
Thanks a lot</div></div></span>
Link To Old Thread
