Rifle Scopes US optics 5-25 question

[Duff]

trying to convince myself to bite the bullet and fork over the dough for a good piece of glass. I narrowed it down to the nightforce BEAST but had always admired the US optics scopes I've seen around on the hide and decided to check them out. ive always heard they've got the clearest picture you can get. and the base price is about $400 cheaper than the BEAST with the TREMOR 2 or H59 reticle. everything was pointing towards the US optics until i got to the elevation range. their site says 16.6 mils but the area of travel is 95 MOA. whats the difference between the elevation range and area of travel? with trying to push a 338 lapua out to a mile plus my main concern with selecting a scope is elevation range. ild like at least around 100 MOA and ild love the supposed (and i have no doubts about it) clarity of the US optics. if 16.6 mils is all ild get out of the US optics then ild start leaning a lot more to the nightforce. so how much elevation does the US optics ER-25 truly have? can adding a 20 30 even 40 MOA rail help? thanks for the help guys!

 

[BenTerrible]

I believe that is a typo on their site.

I have the ER-25 and the LR-17.

Give them a call and double check the numbers on the ER-25 elevation before you make a decision. I am pretty sure the ER-25 is capable of 26 MILS of elevation.

Yes, a canted base will help. For the .338 Lapua, I would go with a 30 minute base. Right now, with my ER-25 bolted to a 20 minute base on my 6.5, I have 26.2 MILS of total reticle movement, 23.2 MILS of elevation. I can dial down 3 mils. I just confirmed these numbers with my optical bore sight on the end of the muzzle.

I have been down this road already with the exact same scope and cartridge. The 30 minute base will let you reach out to over a mile with the ER-25.

 

[trickyric]

You can't get your hands on a beast in Mil/Mil so that should also come into your decision. I have the ER-25 and if you set it up correctly there is plenty of elevation and the EREK knob has 11 mils in one rotation.
I haven't counted but I believe it's close to 30 mils of adjustment after you zero down the EREK knob. I haven't needed more than 1 rotation of the knob to get .308 to 1000 yards.
Also their customer service is really great if you ever have any issues.
I do use a 20 moa rail but I cannot imagine why a person wouldn't if they are shooting long range.

 

[Shortcut]

Yapp, the elevation is more than enough and it's at least 26 Mil. It will do the job great. Apart from that I would definitely advice you to go for the USO. That scope is rocking hard and it kicks ass like few other out there. The optics are really heavy duty and considerring that it's a 100% made American scope, you cannot help beeing proud about it as it competes on basically the same level with the best European and Japanese glass. As far as the ruggedness is concerned, I would like to see the scope that beats it.
The illumination is the best you can get as well and it will come in hand many times when you need the edge of it. With everything beeing said, you cannot go wrong on this one.

 

[ssgtkyle]

Duff,

Yes that is a typo. The ER25 gets at least 26.5 Mils of travel. Optimal set-up is with a 30MOA base. I'm sure if you pull the trigger on one you will be more than happy with it. If you have any questions or concerns please feel free to e-mail or give me a call.

Thanks,

 

[Duff]

Thanks guys! gotta say I'm pretty happy its a typo!. I've always envied the US optics scopes on this site. hopefully will have an order sent for one of my own by the end of the summer.

 

[Toddmonty]

I had 3 NF scopes-3.5-15x56, 6.5-22x56, & a beast. I drank the koolaid!!!!

I know have 2 LR 17's & a ER25, believe me, go with US Optics!!!

They are incredibly clear & very functional.

I called customer service since I bought mine used, $60-65 each, they will clean them, repair if needed, & set-up to factory specs.

All in a 1-2 week turn around.

NF military grade scopes are worthy as far a functionality, but nearly impossible to get!!!!

 

[ARKEMAXUS]

Have the USO ER 5-25 on 70 moa worth of base on my .50 (50moa rail plus 20moa unimount) and I'm getting a total of 30 mils travel with 28.5 up and 1.5 down, erek bottomed out like others have mentioned.

Having looked through the Nightforce ATACR and then looking through my ER 5-25 I can't say USO's glass is better, they're customer service is great. But you were asking about elevation adjustment.... If you have a scope with 100moa of total travel, why not use all of it? I'd go with ATLEAST a 40moa base regardless of what caliber rifle it's going on. This will allow you to use most if not all of the total travel available in the scope. Assuming you're just holding over for wind and not dialing it, it won't matter that your windage turrets don't have much adjustment. Many on here have pushed .338's well past a mile and bottoming out your elevation adjustment by having plenty of downward cant in your base/rings will facilitate this.

 

[Cobracutter]

Considering The production of BEASTS is already spoken for through Mid 2015 (according to NF), might want to look at something else unless you want to pay a premium or a used one.

Personaly, I would go with NF, Khales or Steiner before USO (or S&B for that matter with their warranty, or lack of)

 

[trickyric]

Considering The production of BEASTS is already spoken for through Mid 2015 (according to NF), might want to look at something else unless you want to pay a premium or a used one.

Personaly, I would go with NF, Khales or Steiner before USO (or S&B for that matter with their warranty, or lack of)

why?
Did you have a bad experience with USO?
Is there a specific reason why you would wait for NF?
I have read many reasons for why NF has taken over 18 months to bring this product to market after they rolled out the PR on it. While I have zero inside information on NF I do have extensive experience in bringing retail products to market.
In every electronics product I have been involved in bringing to market for multiple companies the formula is simple. Fill a warehouse with product ready to ship, release your PR barrage to create buzz and sell as much as you can as fast as you can.
The idea being that the buzz lasts only so long before a competitor brings a copy, or a newer better model to market to steal the market share.
The only time I have ever seen distribution delayed for more than a few months on the initial stock is when something was identified as wrong with a product and the company had to fix it.
This may not be the case with NF, but USO has no such issues with getting the product to the end user and their customer service is second to none.
So I ask again,,,,,why do you choose those other companies over them?

 

[Cobracutter]

why?
Did you have a bad experience with USO?
Is there a specific reason why you would wait for NF?
I have read many reasons for why NF has taken over 18 months to bring this product to market after they rolled out the PR on it. While I have zero inside information on NF I do have extensive experience in bringing retail products to market.
In every electronics product I have been involved in bringing to market for multiple companies the formula is simple. Fill a warehouse with product ready to ship, release your PR barrage to create buzz and sell as much as you can as fast as you can.
The idea being that the buzz lasts only so long before a competitor brings a copy, or a newer better model to market to steal the market share.
The only time I have ever seen distribution delayed for more than a few months on the initial stock is when something was identified as wrong with a product and the company had to fix it.
This may not be the case with NF, but USO has no such issues with getting the product to the end user and their customer service is second to none.
So I ask again,,,,,why do you choose those other companies over them?

Had a 3-17 a while ago and was not impressed. Have read enough people with USO issues over the years to steer clear of them, especialy at the price they charge. For a while there were REAL QC issues there and that is unnaceptable at that price point with that level of hands on. There is a reason they are not super popular despite the massive amount of customizable choices for Match/Militaty shooters. Looking at you join date, you haven't been here too long. 10 years of reading through issues, experinces and reviews will start to paint a pretty clear picture.

According to LL and some others, the BEAST is the scope that will unseat the 5-25S&B from its throne. Has all the features, with NF quality, is cheaper and has a lifetime warranty. The rest of the NF line does nothing for me, other than the 2.5-10x24, which is still the finest compact scope ever made.

USO has been around a LONG time, realitive to most of the current companies. There is a reason they have little/no major contracts and not offened used by people who can afford to shoot whatever they want.

 

[trickyric]

To be clear. Frank has posted that NF is retooling in another facility. I have no reason to doubt him since he probably has the most inside line to information of any of us.

I will say that I have had experience with companies that gave the message to their suppliers and reps to tell the dealers a story far from the truth.
In the late 1990's I did a roll out for a golf company that designed a driver that really was easy to hit. The prototypes were being raved about by professionals. Unfortunately pros hit the sweet spot almost all the time. When the club got in the hands of regular golfers who did not hit the sweet spot as often a stress point was created on the hosel and the heads would snap off after around 100 off center hits.
We were told to let dealers know that a supplier had given us faulty hosels and we fired them and were retooling to make them in house.
It was a lie.
The company had to engineer a new hosel and the club was never the same as the prototype. Nobody liked it with the new part and the model quietly went away.
Now I have no reason to believe NF is doing that and I don't want anyone to think that is what I am saying.
I don't know.
I do know USO is not having problems with their product in either function or distribution and that alone is why I did buy their product.

 

[trickyric]

Had a 3-17 a while ago and was not impressed. Have read enough people with USO issues over the years to steer clear of them, especialy at the price they charge. For a while there were REAL QC issues there and that is unnaceptable at that price point with that level of hands on. There is a reason they are not super popular despite the massive amount of customizable choices for Match/Militaty shooters. Looking at you join date, you haven't been here too long. 10 years of reading through issues, experinces and reviews will start to paint a pretty clear picture.


According to LL and some others, the BEAST is the scope that will unseat the 5-25S&B from its throne. Has all the features, with NF quality, is cheaper and has a lifetime warranty. The rest of the NF line does nothing for me, other than the 2.5-10x24, which is still the finest compact scope ever made.

USO has been around a LONG time, realitive to most of the current companies. There is a reason they have little/no major contracts and not offened used by people who can afford to shoot whatever they want.

Well, that is a very good reason.
I cannot argue with experience.

 

[trickyric]

FWIW,
I shoot with a pretty good sized group here in south Florida and about a third of them have USO scopes. I have owned Leupold mostly but I have tried NF and S&B's.
After testing other peoples scopes (the beast wasn't available) I really didn't find any quality difference's that my eye's could see and the S&B's were a lot more expensive.
In our group at least, the USO was the best bang for the buck and I don't know anyone personally who is unhappy with it.
But, I am far from a professional.

 

[sib1948]

FWIW,
I shoot with a pretty good sized group here in south Florida and about a third of them have USO scopes. I have owned Leupold mostly but I have tried NF and S&B's.
After testing other peoples scopes (the beast wasn't available) I really didn't find any quality difference's that my eye's could see and the S&B's were a lot more expensive.
In our group at least, the USO was the best bang for the buck and I don't know anyone personally who is unhappy with it.
But, I am far from a professional.

Duff should get what he likes and be done with it! Also good to have a scope similar to those you shoot with. USOs are darker to my eyes than S&Bs and Vortex Razors, but that's just me. Leupold not in the same stratosphere!

 

[Cobracutter]

Might as well buy a counter sniper or an IOR while your at it with that logic. Just buy what you want in the first place, why make a thread?

 

[Cobracutter]

FWIW,
I shoot with a pretty good sized group here in south Florida and about a third of them have USO scopes. I have owned Leupold mostly but I have tried NF and S&B's.
After testing other peoples scopes (the beast wasn't available) I really didn't find any quality difference's that my eye's could see and the S&B's were a lot more expensive.
In our group at least, the USO was the best bang for the buck and I don't know anyone personally who is unhappy with it.
But, I am far from a professional.

HDMR/G2 is a great bang for the buck
Vortex Razor 5-20 is a great bang for the buck
SWFA 5-20 is a great bang for the buck


The only product USO makes that is worth the money is the 1-8x with Red dot. At $2300+, its not exactly a bargain but it does dominate that class, it it has that going for it. Its also heavy and ugly as fuck.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

The problem is that no one ever thinks their baby is ugly. USO does make some really good optics that are indeed top shelf level. Have they had some issues in the past? Sure, show me a company that hasn't and I'll show you a company that hasn't been around long. Do not make the mistake of thinking that just because the Government or certain units aren't using an item that it is not up to par with what ever piece they are using. I can tell you right now, that is not the case in many instances but that conversation is beyond the scope of this topic. Look at some of the more recent threads here on the Hide and you will see that many users/owners to include LL himself has commented positively about the quality of USOs glass and products.

Bottom line, optics is a highly subjective area but rest assured, which ever flavor you prefer, if it comes from one of the top shelf manufacturers, you are getting a quality product. Choose what works best for you and your budget.

 

[augnmike]

Not sure if my join date is early enough for me to qualify but another factor about USO is that they are a small company that historically has built scopes in the US one at a time. They have been reinventing themselves over the past two years to improve QC, production capabilities, and maintain the highest levels of customer care. This during a time of difficult financial impacts in the US. I know for a fact that they have dedicated themselves to employing veterans and creating jobs in the industry, both directly and indirectly. We all talk a big game when it comes to American products but my experience is that when it comes to pulling out our wallet money talks louder. Regarding military contracts they have not aggressively pursued those since they historically have opted to build scopes one at a time and didn't have the infrastructure to deal with capacity. There have been significant changes for the better in this company and they are dedicated to continuing to learn and grow.

 

[Cobracutter]

California is not American. I would rather give my money to Communist China than Communist California. Atleast the chinesse aren't in self denial.

 

[smschulz]

Methinks Cobracutter had an USO shoved up his ass with no lube with all the USO-hatin' going on.

 

[trickyric]

Methinks Cobracutter had an USO shoved up his ass with no lube with all the USO-hatin' going on.

Sometimes a person just had a really bad experience with a company and that shapes their opinion. He is entitled to his beliefs.
I love my USO so that is all I can tell you about my experience

 

[black max]

California is not American. I would rather give my money to Communist China than Communist California. Atleast the chinesse aren't in self denial.

Seriously cobra??? That's sad...

 

[Cobracutter]

Seriously cobra??? That's sad...

No I was joking.....everyone know California is the center of freedom. They are such amazing Stewarts of taxpayer dollars we should move there. They also lead the country in gun rights and constitutional protection. Cops don't shoot blue trucks there either.

 

[black max]

I agree but they are still Americans and I would much rather see my money go to them than a country who would like nothing more than to see our great country reduced to shambles. Sorry for the hijack OP.

 

[augnmike]

Wow not sure who stewart is but I live in California. In any event not clear on what any of the rant has to do with the OP's question.

 

[Bender]

California is not American. I would rather give my money to Communist China than Communist California. Atleast the chinesse aren't in self denial.

I don't care who you are..... That is funny.....

Back to your regular thread now....

 

[6Dasher]

How can an argument against USO be validated by "join date" and "10 years of reading", and in the same post argue that an unproven scope will best the S&B 5-25??? That is fanboy talk lime on the camera forums. I have yet to see NF optics that match the glass of S&B. The beast (pfff, which intern thought up that name) will have to prove itself like any other scope. Only certainty is that prices are upped for a new model.

Every scope can fail, no exceptions. Even the most expensive brands have QC issues now and then, just like the cheapest. It's what they do to fix it that is important.

 

[71firebird400]

I cannot comment on the 5-25 but several years ago I ordered an NXS 5.5-22 and a USO 3.2-17 TPAL at the same time. Both were mil/mil, and the USO actually showed up first. I love the USO for the first couple weeks and had second thoughts about ordering the NF (which had not arrived yet), eventually I settled on the idea that I'd give the NF a shot when it showed up but was expecting to sell it and pick up another USO. Finally, the NF came in the mail and begrudgingly I mounted it up to another 308 to shoot alongside the USO. I'll never forget that first range day with the two scopes, my euphoria with the USO began to fade when I saw how superior the NF knobs were (USO windage knob was "vague" to say the least; in it's defense the EREK was great). Over the course of the afternoon I couldn't help but notice that the USO parallax knob had the slightest amount of lash in it while the NF did not. Finally, I was shooting some Shoot N C pasters at 300 yards; they were about 3" diameter with a 1/8" red dot in the middle. With the NF dialed back to 17 power I could make out the dot, with the USO at 17 power I could not. After a couple more months of similar range trips I sold the USO and replaced it with a second NF. I really wanted to love my USO but beyond the first couple of weeks I couldn't; it just didn't measure up to the quality of the NF as I perceived it. I have since moved on to different scopes that I like even more, but never have I considered a USO. I am hoping I'll run into someone with a 5-25 one of these days who will let me take a look through it; still hopeful that it may be better than my 3.2-17 as I still do like the idea of buying a US-built scope and you cannot deny how cool they look.

 

[Cobracutter]

How can an argument against USO be validated by "join date" and "10 years of reading", and in the same post argue that an unproven scope will best the S&B 5-25??? That is fanboy talk lime on the camera forums. I have yet to see NF optics that match the glass of S&B. The beast (pfff, which intern thought up that name) will have to prove itself like any other scope. Only certainty is that prices are upped for a new model.

Every scope can fail, no exceptions. Even the most expensive brands have QC issues now and then, just like the cheapest. It's what they do to fix it that is important.

Please show me where Nightforce has a history of shitty QC like USO does? I don't seem to recall NF destroying their own brand and many of their long time customers due to shitty QC on $2-3K optics.

People who know more than you or I have tested the BEAST, and based on NF's stellar reputation for durrability and tracking, coupled with new design features, fantastic glass, and great aestetics its going to be hard to argue. Frank did a pretty good preliminary review of the BEAST that is more than enough justifcation for me.

The BEAST is also priced right around or less than many comparable optics. S&B, Khales , USO, Henny, Swaro,ect....

I spoke to NF's military rep on the phone earlier this week. They aren't even letting people buy the BEAST, beacuse production is already filled through MID/END CY15. That is a hint.

 

[6Dasher]

Are you sure you're not a NF salesman?

All of it is heresay until the scope has proven itself the next couple of years.

Great glass has never been the NF strong point. They never got the colors right, purple fringing on high contrast, low resolution on the 12-42 when on full zoom. I've seen plenty of NFs fail, just like other brands.

NF is a great scope, no doubt, but you make it sound like they are flawless and unbreakable. They are not.

PS: I've owned uso, nf, leupy, schmidt, premier and march. Shot them extensively. All of the have weaknesses, all of them can break down. I've seen QC issues on most of them. They are all great, but all still mechanical devices prone to wear and tear.

 

[trickyric]

LL already cleared the story about military contracts for the Beast not being true.
He told us they are changing facilities and retooling.
In any event I am happy with my USO. I would probably like the Beast too. However it's not available.

 

[toddconley]

If u get a h37 reticle you can shoot a 338 to the next zip code. The reticle is about 2/3 up to zero it. On 25 there is 12 mils of reticle to use. I just cranked mine two full reves for 22 mils up. 22 plus 12 would surely make a 338 shoot a long ways. On 20 there is 15 mils in the reticle to use plus the knob. Hope that helps.
T

 

[fnfan]

Get the USO....it is available now. I have a Tangent Theta on order, as well as a Beast.....but my rifle is ready NOW, so I bought the USO. You may spend the rest of your life waiting on a manufactures b.s. availability deadline that never comes, or buy the USO and go shoot. If your dream scope finally comes, then sell which ever one you don't like. Work on becoming a better shooter.....not wasting your life away waiting on broken deadlines.

 

[SoCal762Shooter]

Just mounted up this ER25 w/ H102 for a friends .338 LaPua. Pretty impressed so far and plan on dialing it in in the next couple of weeks before giving it back. With the 30MOA built into the Surgeon action should be plenty of adjustment to make a mile if my math is correct. I would say confidently that the US Optics of today is a different company than the company of several years ago and worth giving another shot. I can see how a bad experience can leave a bitter taste, but I challenge you to find better customer service these days in the high end optics market. I've shot the Nightforce and can't say anything bad about them, but having played with the BEAST at SHOT for two years in a row now, I'm initially underwhelmed by it. Go with your gut and buy what suits you. If you can look through some glass that's better than any internet commando's opinion since we all see things a little differently. Good luck.

 

[Carcajou]

I would say confidently that the US Optics of today is a different company than the company of several years ago and worth giving another shot.

May I ask you what is, in your opinion, the number behind the expression "several years ago" ? Two, four, five, six, whatever ?

Where would be the "dividing line", if I may say so ?

TIA

 

[997/2man]

Considering The production of BEASTS is already spoken for through Mid 2015 (according to NF), might want to look at something else unless you want to pay a premium or a used one.

Personaly, I would go with NF, Khales or Steiner before USO (or S&B for that matter with their warranty, or lack of)

This. Times about 100.

 

[trickyric]

Can one of the USO haters please link some articles or threads where there have been problems with them?
Every review I have ever read has been good.
I know there are a lot of NF groupies but were is the evidence of issues with USO?
So far we have only anecdotal evidence.
Before I purchased one I did some serious reading over the web on them and only found positive reviews. I also have many friends who owned them and I did try them out. I have been very happy with mine as well as my friends have been with theirs.
Now for the NF groupies I have only found positive reviews for that company also.
I just don't get how there could be many issues but no articles or threads about it.

 

[augnmike]

It doesn't matter what a company produces sometimes things go wrong, that is where customer service comes into play. If a company was able to get it right 100% of the time this would not be an issue. USO began to make some significant changes in production and QC about three years ago, this was part of their plan to produce scopes at a higher capacity to satisfy market demand. I like USO and I also have NF scopes. I prefer the response of USO to my inquiries but have in the past bought NF for their pricing. Price is less critical to me now days so I stick with USO in most cases. Changes in any company come incrementally for a variety of reasons, capital, technology advances and market considerations to name a few. USO's longer term business plan seems well thought out and methodical with the overarching value of providing the highest level of customer service at the forefront. I see no reason to bash any of these proven companies no more than I would bash Chevy for bad Chevy Blazer I bought in the 1980's, I've owned three suburbans and two Chevy trucks since then and with a couple of minor exceptions that Chevy fixed for me they have been solid and reliable. My friends own Fords and so I have hunted a lot of miles in those and they seem to work fine, not perfectly but fine. I just prefer Chevy.

 

[6Dasher]

I see hypes every few years. Leupy was da bomb with their mk4 Ultra's. Then it was the NXS. The it was USO, couldn't look on the Hide and NOT see someone with a USO scope. Then came Schmidt, then Premier. Technology progresses and eventually some manufacturers listen to what shooters want. Mil/mil was limited to military scopes, now even Bushnell makes them, go figure. The next manufacturer with the latest and greatest will be the new hype, until someone else comes along. Pick you poison and just enjoy.

 

[Ronald]

I own several USOs. I have a 3.8-22 sn3 mounted on a 30moa mount and that gives me a total of 73moa after zero. Enough for me to shoot to 1 mile with my 6mm Creedmoor. with a ER5-25 and a 338 you will be able to shoot past 1 mile easily.
I also own a ER5-25 with Horus H59 reticle this scope gives even more usable moa than my old SN3s. I own SN4, SR8c, SN3 1.8-10. I have a Barret M82a1 that i shot probably 3000 rounds of 50bmg all with my SN3 3.8-22 on it. That scope never broke or had any issues. I abuse the shit out of my gear in competitions and i never had any issues or failures with any of my USOptics scopes. I shoot a lot of 3gun matches and also tactical precision rifle matches. Guess what is going on my next rifle? USO! I live in Southern California close to USO's shop. I go there once in a while and they treat me like family.
You can't go wrong with any scope from US Optics.
PS. I've owned Leupold, IOR, NF, Trijicon and some other brands too. I 've sold them all. None of them compares to any of the USO that I have.

 

[Sapper524]

I have owned and shot several brands ranging from Leupold Mark4s / USO's / NightForce NXS and ATACR / Ziess / Trijicon etc. I have never owned a S&B Or Premier but I have shot them. NF makes a good scope that is dependable for sure. I won't argue the "glass" factor as that's subjective. I will say this, I only have one NF left and its on its way out and a USO will replace it. I have tried time and again to like NF scopes as they are almost "local" to me and I Fing hate Cali ... but the awesome eyebox and wide FOV on my LR-17's and ER-25's keep me coming back. Im a big fan of the GAP reticle and when NF released the MLR2.0 I snagged a F1 to give it a go. Again, it was a rock solid scope and dependable, I tried to like it, but I went back to my LR-17s. Both companies make a good scope, if you want a long range Second Focal optic, the ATACR is hard to beat. If you want First Focal go USO. If I had to choose another it would be Kahles more than likely as Eyebox and FOV sit at the top of my "List"

 

[Reed@USO]

I'll just go ahead and leave this here....

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sshz8n7cdk6pia2/AADd08P_cvydIYSBXkbhbqxna?dl=0

We're proud of what we make, even though we're based out of "Communist California." Come soak up the sun, and take the kids to Disneyland then tell me that this state is all bad. Perhaps it's not the best for firearms rights, but it certainly is a good place to live.

There is a ton of love/hate around this forum concerning rifle scopes. I think it's important to remember that every company is proud of their reputation and is always seeking to improve their products. I'm very new to the company, but I can vouch for every person at US Optics that we constantly strive to create a better product and deliver the ultimate customer service. If anyone ever has a question about our products, I'm always free to talk or email.

Please visit the above link to learn about our entire product line.

[email protected]

 

[cro789]

I have a Nightforce ATACR and it had to go back for a problem. The customer service is one of the best. While it was gone I mounted my USO LR 17 to my FN A3G and let my buddy,a Marine Scout Sniper who is just back from the sand box, shoot the gun. He also had shot it with the nightforce. Like me, I had converted him to USO. He stated he had looked through a lot of S&B and the USO was one of the best he had ever seen. I mounted the USO onto the rifle on the back of the truck in about 20mins. We both shot it at 100yds on a 90 deg day with heavy mirage. The group size was under a 1/4". I love my USO and will be buying a 5-25 as soon as I can afford it. May have to sell the Nightforce to get it, but I like it as well. You can't go wrong with either one, I am just happier with the USO.