using 168 SMK and 175 SMK need help

[doctordoctor]

I have searched and searched and have asked others for help but no results....

I recently purchased a new Rem 700 XCR long range tactical (24" barrel) and I qualified for a precision rifle course at Front Sight, NV. I in haste and in stupidity purchased several hundred rounds of 168's SMK's. This is fine and dandy but I will be shooting from 300 to 1k. The problem I quickly learned is that I will need 175 SMK's for 800+... SO I am sheepishly and with much ridicule from my wife will be buying some more ammo in 175.

Anyhow my question..... Is there a way to lessen the pain in the pocket book by using both grain ammo using my 168 zero??? I was hoping that there is a way to compensate with my nightforce nsx scope for the ballistic/trajectory change/difference. I really don't have the $$$ as an ER resident to buy more ammo, but really want to hit steel at 1k.

I was hoping or thought that I could simply adjust for the difference in trajectories by using my 168 zero and adding the difference in MOA to it for the 175's. thus accounting for the heavier bullet. I hope this makes sense. BASICALLY I am pretty sure I will not have time to re-zero (which I KNOW is the best way to go) before I shot 800-1k. I have 400 rounds of 168 that I don't want going to waste.

So my question in a nutshell is if there is a way to accurately shoot 175's using a 168 zero compensating with MOA? I will re-zero after i blow through my 400 rounds of 168's FGMM.

Your help will be greatly appreciated! really it will be accepted GREATFULLY

Dr. B

 

[Conrad101st]

Re: using 168 SMK and 175 SMK need help

Assuming they both had the same point of impact or you adjusted for it by KNOWING the POI for each load, sure if you keep two range cards or ballistic calculators running for each load. It's not the optimum solustion, but we all have been in a situation where we have to make do.

Or shoot the 175s now and save the 168 for busting varmints at medium range. We normally shoot prairie dogs between 200 & 400 yards so 168s are perfect there.

 

[notquiteright]

Re: using 168 SMK and 175 SMK need help

In F-Class matches some guys run 168 out to 600 and 175 to 1000.

Now how did you 'qualify' to attend a school?

How do you know the 168's wont go to 1000? Have you shot the distance at the elevation of the school?

I ask because I have seen 100's of guys and a few gays who have used 168SMKs to 1000yards. I like the 168Amax but thats a different story.

Have fun

 

[flyrodder]

Re: using 168 SMK and 175 SMK need help

I'm at 4,700 feet of elevation, and I've had no problems with 168s out to 1,000 even in cool weather and have dabbled out to about 1,300. Front Sight is low elevation but it can get a bit toasty down there, which will help. In other words, run the ballistics for the conditions you expect and, if you can, try the 168s past their supersonic range. You may be able to make them work.

 

[Top Cat]

Re: using 168 SMK and 175 SMK need help

This is simple, when you dial in POI for 175 at 800-1000yds, or any range, you dial in using 175 data.

You'll still need some actual range data to verify your ballistic chart with real world results.

Different load = different POI = different click values.

TC

 

[doctordoctor]

Re: using 168 SMK and 175 SMK need help

Thank you guys! I figured It would be okay but just wante to make sure before I made "another" investment.

I qualified by "distinguish graduating" their practical rifle test. So by scoring in the 90th percentile allows you to take other more advanced courses. It was awesome seeing I was the only one out of a 4 day course of 60 people. Makes me even happier to know I beat my twin brother who uses an ACOG. I just used an Eotech.

I will test everything the best I can but only have access to a 500 yard range on the Amish land. so further out will be faith in the ballistics calculator!

Again thank you for taking the time to respond, It is nice to see society helping each other. The help I am used to giving usually involves Pain meds!

 

[cuffm4615]

Re: using 168 SMK and 175 SMK need help

Inside 600 you will be fine with your 168's. Out to 1000 I cant speak for higher elevation states but here in FLA. (sea level) the 168's are very unstable at long distance. While playing with some 168's (for fun) I have had some hit near the target at 1000 only to watch the next one fall 20 yards short and next after do something even wilder. In a .308 shooting 168's past 600 is a waste (my opinion)

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: using 168 SMK and 175 SMK need help

I've shot both without any changes in my setup, it just took a little more up to get out to the end. Just shoot em!!

 

[bohem]

Re: using 168 SMK and 175 SMK need help

In NV there's a very good chance with the elevation and heat you'll be able to get the 168's onto the long targets at 1000yd.

I would suggest that you go to the range, zero with each ammo and note the difference in the zero from the 168 to 175, just like you explained. Then just dial what you need and it will work fine. There's a lot of us that shoot multiple bullet types in the same rifle.

Enjoy the class, it can be made to work, just takes some minor care and thinking. Then you'll be set to go.

 

[LawnMM]

Re: using 168 SMK and 175 SMK need help

I suggest buying the 175s and selling the 168s here. There are plenty of guys either new to shooting or that don't have access to a range thats 600+ yards that would probably pick them up. You might lose a little but it wouldn't be a total shot to your wallet that way.

 

[notquiteright]

Re: using 168 SMK and 175 SMK need help

He needs at least 100 posts to qualify to sell in the Hide.

 

[Iggy]

Re: using 168 SMK and 175 SMK need help

Yeah, I would suggest the same. Sell the 168's and then go to Southwest Ammunition and buy the 175's they sell. If you buy in bulk you get a discount I believe.

Heck, if those are 168 FGMM send me a PM.

 

[timelinex]

Re: using 168 SMK and 175 SMK need help

Why dont you sell it online? Put it up on the forums classified and other places like backpage.com. I bought 200 rounds of German surplus and they didn't work for my rifle. I sold it with 10 rounds less for the same price as I bought it for. The only thing I lost is shipping, which was split between other ammo anyways so it was really like 4 dollars for 10 shots.

Point of the story, is you could probably sell it for the same price ou bought it for. Most local places sell FGMM for 28+ a box I've noticed, so its a win win situation for both you and the buyer.

 

[Kells81]

Re: using 168 SMK and 175 SMK need help

Shhhh please dont tell my XCR LR Tactical that it cannot get the 168's to 1k......I was even able to get there with factory 168 FGMM in this rifle.

Rem XCR LR Tactical,
McM A5 doesnt really matter
Leup MK4 base bedded 20MOA
Leup MK4 Rings
Leup MK 6-20x50 M1 TMR


Ammo as follows
168 SMK over 43.5 Varget Nosler brass FGM Primer 2710FPS average over 10 rounds, 37.5 MOA at 1k and if I am on the wind I can get 10/10 on a 12" circle. (over MOA but still all 10 hit it). throw the wind in there and the game goes to shit but mostly cause I suck at doin the wind game and it most likely pushes the bullet all over the place.

175 SMK over 43.5 Varget, Nosler brass, FGM Prime 2630FPS average on 10 rounds, 36.4 MOA at 1k and again very good hits at the distance.

I had to come up 40.5 MOA to get FGMM to 1k out of this rig and had some good hits but its gotta be running slower at the muzzle than my loads.

I have found the best way to get the info you need is to go out and shoot it. My Bulletflight program is pretty damn close but having real world numbers to match against helps also. IE go shoot the 168's and 175's at 1k and see how much diff there is. I do this everytime I take the 308 as I load half and half with each and go from there.

 

[rez187]

Re: using 168 SMK and 175 SMK need help

vegas is still well above sea level and depending on time if year especially summer your looking at triple digits you will be fine with 168's. part of the course will be zero and dope out to max range so you will have the opportunity to shoot quite a bit. after all the course is instruction not a match!

 

[fdkay]

Re: using 168 SMK and 175 SMK need help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notquiteright</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In F-Class matches some guys run 168 out to 600 and 175 to 1000.

Now how did you 'qualify' to attend a school?

How do you know the 168's wont go to 1000? Have you shot the distance at the elevation of the school?

I ask because I have seen 100's of guys <span style="color: #CC0000"><span style="font-size: 11pt">and a few gays </span></span>who have used 168SMKs to 1000yards. I like the 168Amax but thats a different story.

Have fun </div></div>

Must have been the way they squeezed their bag.

 

[nme7]

Re: using 168 SMK and 175 SMK need help

I took the precision rifle 1 class last year using a Rem700 sps with the standard 24" barrel and FGMM 168SMK. The only time you will shoot beyond 600 is when at snipers point. The furthest target I could identify was a bit beyond 1000, and I hit it on the second shot using 168 SMK. (The ol' two shots, one hit.) The majority of the time is spent on the long distance range which goes out to 550 or 600 depending on where you are measuring from. Skills test longest shot was from 600. 175SMK would be nice to have but the 168s will be plenty fine for this class. I also used BulletFlight app on my iPod to get some useful data to build my databook.

The rangemaster also provided ballistic information using Ballistic FTE program. You will be able to compare both the 168 and 175 info to see how much difference there is on dope at various distances.

Hope that helps. Only other thing I can add is to have your gear sorted out before class and have some sort of easy system of unpacking, setting up, shooting and repacking very quickly.

 

[timelinex]

Re: using 168 SMK and 175 SMK need help

Seems like you might be ok ,according to the other guys. But seriously , I don't see why anyone would get the 168's over the 175's. Right now at palmetto the 168's are a deal, but otherwise they are usually the exact same price or 5% cheaper than the 175's (at palmetto's). So why go with something that the same but worse at distances, for basically the same price.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: using 168 SMK and 175 SMK need help

Did I read that right......$2K for a four day class?

So do you get in free, or did you "qualify" to pay for the class?

Apparently you only need 300 rounds for the class, so burn up the 168's with some close range practice and load up the 175's for the class.

The last time I ran 168's to 1000 yards, they were still going straight at 900. Somewhere past 900 they started to go sideways. It wouldn't take much elevation and temp to get them there. Just because a bullet goes transonic doesn't mean it drops out of the air.

 

[Rundownfid]

Re: using 168 SMK and 175 SMK need help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nme7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I took the precision rifle 1 class last year using a Rem700 sps with the standard 24" barrel and FGMM 168SMK. The only time you will shoot beyond 600 is when at snipers point. The furthest target I could identify was a bit beyond 1000, and I hit it on the second shot using 168 SMK. (The ol' two shots, one hit.) The majority of the time is spent on the long distance range which goes out to 550 or 600 depending on where you are measuring from. Skills test longest shot was from 600. 175SMK would be nice to have but the 168s will be plenty fine for this class. I also used BulletFlight app on my iPod to get some useful data to build my databook.

The rangemaster also provided ballistic information using Ballistic FTE program. You will be able to compare both the 168 and 175 info to see how much difference there is on dope at various distances.

Hope that helps. Only other thing I can add is to have your gear sorted out before class and have some sort of easy system of unpacking, setting up, shooting and repacking very quickly. </div></div>

This is excellent advice and on a first post, welcome.

 

[doctordoctor]

Re: using 168 SMK and 175 SMK need help

lonewolf no one and I mean NO ONE pays full price at Front Sight. they just ended a deal for all inclusive Diamond memberships (free to take EVERY course unlimited amount of times) for $500. yep $500 to do as much as you want. My family and I have really enjoyed our time there and have learned a lot. I try to go every time I make it back home to CA for my vacation time. Shooting helps with the stresses of hospital life! YOu should look into it. It makes for a great MAN-cation.

 

[Emouse]

Re: using 168 SMK and 175 SMK need help

Yes,..its a proven fact.

Only GAY people shoot 168's to 1k