Advanced Marksmanship Using bullet trace for accurate compensation

[sharac]

Using a spotter and bullet trace it's relatively easy to get onto target however from our recent shooting session we were unable to compensate for small amounts. For example shooting at 300 or 500m we weren't able to see bullet holes due to severe mirage and sun in the face however bullet trace was nicely seen. We were on paper (after we checked the targets) and a nice group in lower right (approx 10cm@5 o'clock) however when calling shots from bullet trace all were called center on (spotter was 10m behind the shooter to the right approx 2m). On other occasion two spotters were one the right and one to the left and the left spotter observed high and left and right spotter observed low and righ

.

Are there any rules regarding spotting (i'd assume best position is directly behind the shooter not offset and looking above - which would also mean that trace will disappear slightly above target) and helping with bullet trace to aid in centering groups.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Using bullet trace for accurate compensation

Hitting where aimed, when the target size, distance, and environment is not controlled by the shooter, requires knowledge of everything important to good shooting: the principles of marksmanship, wind and weather effects, slope, range estimation, the elements and factors of a steady position, shooter/target analysis, zeroing, and more. And, although a spotter can certainly come to the aid of a shooter to get on target by reading trace and by other means, proper training would likely preclude the need for such an exercise in most scenarios. Hitting a target by trial and error as in reading trace, or looking for impact effects like smoke are only viable when quicker methods of adjusting for a good hit are not possible.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Using bullet trace for accurate compensation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">(spotter was 10m behind the shooter to the right approx 2m</div></div>

Being right or left of the shooter, (as much as 6 ft) will not give you an accurate ideal where the trace says the bullets are going.

To be {more) accurate, you need to get directly behind the shooter, along the line of the barrel. DIRECTLY behidn.

Also as close as possible. You also need to know the trijectory of the given round at a given distance so you can get an ideal of where to pick up the trace and how it will drop.

I'll give you an ideal what can happen when you don't know the trejectory, or arn't exactly behind the shooter.

At my first W.P. Wilson (National Guard Championships) I was spotting for my three shooters in the Infantry Trophy Matches, using 10X glasses. I see the trace well above the targets at 600 years, Not understanding the bullet would drop the last leg of its journey toward the 600 yard target, I tell the shooter "Lower, Lower, hold Lower", my shooters did as I instructed and promply shot the crap out of North Carolina's brand new 45 passenger bus parked behind the pits, but out of sight of the firing line.

For some odd reason that was the last year competitiors were allowed to take vehicles to the pits.

 

[bohem]

Re: Using bullet trace for accurate compensation

Being lined up is highly important as Kraig explained.

I had an experience where I was trying to tell a match director that he should not be calling corrects for a shooter when they're more than 1 shooting position away on the line. He was calling corrections based on dirt impact for a guy who was almost 10yd right.

Not surprisingly the calls were "you need to come left by 6 mils"... 6 mils? At 400yd? Something's off, and it is the perspective.

A month later the same thing happened, he was calling for me from about 5yd right on a 600yd plate where the burm is at 637. My first shot skimmed just off the left edge, I saw the trace and watched it in. His call was "come left 2.5 mils"

I ignored him, made my 0.2mil (actually 0.5 MOA) correction and center punched the plate on the next shot. Then commented again why staying in a static position and calling corrections from guys on the other end of the line is a bad idea.

I've seen spotters lay on top of the shooter... I think this is largely unnecessary but sitting 5 feet behind with a spotter on a tripod and getting the scope just over the shooter's head will show an excellent trace about 99% of the time.

Also keep in mind that by the time your eye picks up the trace in the scope the bullet is appx 6-10 feet in front of it.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Using bullet trace for accurate compensation

Great story Kraig.

I always try and get directly behind the shooter, to look over his line of sight. I also always take into account the skill of whomever is spotting for me, when he calls high and right but is on my right side, I know his perspective doesn't give him the most accurate call, and further exacerbated by the distance of impact from the target. His high and right call may really be just high. A good spotter on your same plane is a winning combination, you only need to miss once.

 

[sharac]

Re: Using bullet trace for accurate compensation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've seen spotters lay on top of the shooter...</div></div>

Ehm... no can do i think i'll skip that one unless some cutie decides to do some shooting (but then i'm pretty sure i wont be spotting...)...


Great help guys it was first time we tried it for accurate spotting (10cm@300m accuracy needed) and when two spotters saw two different corrections it was clear that something is amiss.

I agree this is last resort situation but unfortunately it's very hot here atm and conditions for seeing bullet holes are really challenging even for the best spotting scopes. And as time is restricted and no pits available (target is rather small - 32mm is a 10 ring) there is either spotting scope bullet hole seeing or using spotter and trace reading to the best of our ability (which we hope to improve with practice

)...

 

[bohem]

Re: Using bullet trace for accurate compensation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Ehm... no can do i think i'll skip that one unless some cutie decides to do some shooting (but then i'm pretty sure i wont be spotting...)...

</div></div>

Yes, we are in complete agreement...

 

[uncledillers]

Re: Using bullet trace for accurate compensation

As most people agree in line with the axis of the barrel is ideal. But what I would say is most importantant, is consistency. You can have your spotter on your right side close to you as possible, and it will be fine, as long as he is always in the same spot he can make accurate calls. Also when trying to make calls off of swirl, it is best for your spotter to keep track of it in a log book, like you would for DOPE. He needs to make down where he saw swirl in relation to were the impact was. You can practice this by shotting at a range that alows point of aim point of impact, then shooting at diffrent quadrents of the target and and getting your spotter to tell you where you were aiming at. You obviously pick the point of aim with out telling him.

Good luck

 

[sharac]

Re: Using bullet trace for accurate compensation

Thanks for advice we were training some more and we're getting there. Still more hit and miss thing but i believe with practice we might be able to call within 10cm or less.

On the side note i've decided to build a remote system and for measly 200$ i was able to get quite good system (7" lcd off ebay, wifi video transmitters, old camcorder with optical zoom and directional antennas and some 12V motorcycle batteries).