Using expanding mandrels - lube?

[1jonathan1994]

If I use Sinclair expanding mandrels to size the neck for neck tension, do they need the cases neck insides to be:

Lube inside neck? (graphite or spray – I have both)
Just work better if lubed?
Dry from tumbler is fine?
Dry from tumbler, but brush out the dust and media first?

I’m about to set up a RL550b for 223 semi precision ammo and may migrate to other calibers later. So my plan would be to do one of the following.

[*]1 FLS+decap on single stage Forster with undersized expander ball or no ball, chamfer/deburr, tumble. Then go to the progressive for prime, a no lube expander mandrel, powder, seat.
[*]OR
[*]2 Use 2 passes in progressive press only with outside lubed and inside neck graphited. First toolhead would be decap, FLS, graphite brush, expander. Chamfer/deburr and tumble brass. Prime, Powder and seat with second toolhead.
Or
[*]3 Tumble first. Single pass through progressive with body lubed, but dry inside neck. Decap+FLS with undersized ball/no ball in station 1. PULL CASE OUT, clean primer pocket, trim, chamfer/deburr, replace in station one. Prime. Then advance to station 2 for a dry expander mandrel. Station 3 for powder. Station 4 for seating. Wipe outside lube off by hand..grrrr...

 

[spife7980]

Lubing will never hurt anything, if its the stainless mandrels then it will be smoother with the lube. I tried it without lube on a 270 stainless sinclair turning mandrel and it was much more "grabby" than a lubed neck, took much more effort to run it in too.

You are already lubing them to size the cases down, Just give a quick spritz in the neck when you do that and dont tumble them before you run them over the mandrel. Im sure that the dillon crowd will be here quickly telling you to decap station 1, full length size in station 2, mandrel station 3, trim station 4 on the first pass. Tumble chamfer deburr them all up. Then in a second pass deprime tool/flashhole clearance station 1, prime station 2, powder station 3 and seat station 4.

 

[Stpilot12]

You are already lubing them to size the cases down, Just give a quick spritz in the neck when you do that and dont tumble them before you run them over the mandrel. Im sure that the dillon crowd will be here quickly telling you to decap station 1, full length size in station 2, mandrel station 3, trim station 4 on the first pass. Tumble chamfer deburr them all up. Then in a second pass deprime tool/flashhole clearance station 1, prime station 2, powder station 3 and seat station 4.

Wow! It's like he knows us?!?! Kidding, I dont get that freaky with what station does what and I like to hand prime with the 21st century gizmo.
But YES.. What Spife says about spritzing... spray a shot of goo in the neck and you'll be good to go.

 

[Pvt.Donut]

I would definitely use lube. The Sinclair expanders will gall if you don't use lube, then you'll scratch the inside of your necks. Since you're using a progressive, I'd suggest using a graphite or dry lube so you don't have to wipe the lube off prior to seating your bullet or adding powder. I'd say body size the cases first, tumble them to clean off lube, finish case prep, prime, graphite necks, mandrel, powder, seat bullet. I actually think my reloads shoot better with graphited necks anyway. Makes for more uniform bullet release.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

I've started using this.

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/3...iSH8Iwx4hEj_i7uCEX4FzOHlRdta1BooaAn3MEALw_wcB

It's designed and it would be best to 'mount' it to the table for one handed operation. The problem is, you need to put the cover on and flip it over to re lube the bristles. So, I need a way to mount and dismount it quickly and easily. I've only used it for one loading session, so I'm still figuring it out. It was inexpensive and seemed to be exactly what I was looking for.

 

[Sheldon N]

I do both my bulk 223 precision trainer ammo and my match ammo with basically the same process on a Dillon 550.

Tumble in corn cob, anneal, then throw in a big tupperware bin and spray home made alcohol/lanolin lube on. Just a couple sprays, some might get in the neck of some cases, but I make no effort to get lube inside the case.

Dillon Toolhead #1 = universal deprime station 1, FL sizing die station 2 (no expander ball), Sinclair carbide expander mandrel station 3

Tumble brass again to get the lube off. Lyman case prep center for a quick champfer debur (I will clean pockets and brush necks on match brass). Store the brass for loading at a later date.

Dillon Toolhead #2 for loading = prime station 1, powder station 2, bullet seating station 3. Match ammo gets precision weighed charges, 223 loaded with a Dillon powder thrower.

I would say there is no need for graphite or pre-brushing or anything like that. A 21st century Ti Mandrel or Sinclair Carbide mandrel is enough. Also, if you can lessen the amount of work the mandrel needs to do, that also lessens the need for lube. On my match ammo I have a Forster FL die with a honed neck set so that the mandrel only has to expand the neck about half a thou.

I've done about 5,000 rounds with this process in the past year or so, works awesome.

 

[shoot4fun]

I'd lube but have long preferred to use Imperial Dry Media on the inside of necks. I have come to believe, especially after ultrasonic or SS media case cleaning, that the dry lube lowers the chances of getting that mystery flyer.

 

[PatMiles]

I use molybdenum disulfide applied with a Q-Tip for neck expanding with a mandrel and also before seating bullets.
https://www.amazon.com/Molybdenum-D...pID=41vzqZu-QfL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

 

[BullzeyeNJ]

I have the 21st century titanium nitride mandrels. I use the Redding graphite lube on the inside of the necks. I dont have to but it makes the mandrel pass that much easier so why not.

 

[1jonathan1994]

I have the 21st century titanium nitride mandrels. I use the Redding graphite lube on the inside of the necks. I dont have to but it makes the mandrel pass that much easier so why not.

Are you and others leaving the dry lubes on for seating?

 

[kansas]

I’ve been using the Tn neck turning mandrel from 21 Century that someone here recommended and I did 100 6x47L cases this morning without lubing the necks and no need for lube. Seating bullets after was smooth as butter.

 

[HoustonB77]

I'm not using a progressive but this is what I do.
1 Deprime (Hornady LNL classic press and Lee universal Decapper)
2 Ultrasonic Hornady cleaner
3 full length size with Forster honed die minus the expander. (I use home made lube for the outside of the case ) 1/11 Liquid Lanolin and 99% alcohol
4 Size the case mouth with Sinclair mandrel. (I use graphite lube on every 3rd case)
5 Trim if needed.
6 RCBS prep center clean up case mouth after trimming
7 tumble in corn cob for 1 hour to remove lube
8 Prime with a Hornady hand priming tool
9 Powder them up with my A&D FX120i and autotrickler
10 Seat bullet with Forster Co-Ax and Forster micrometer seater
Man I just realized that is a ton of steps. Works for me though.

 

[BullzeyeNJ]

Are you and others leaving the dry lubes on for seating?

I leave it on for bullet seating. I dont know what others do.

 

[padom]

I dont see any point in using a mandrel if:

a) you aren't using a honed FL sizing die that only sizes the neck down minimally then a mandrel to open it back up minimally to give .002 neck tension

b) you aren't using a bushing to size the neck down minimally then a mandrel to open it back up minimally

You should stick with FL sizing die with the expander ball if your aren't doing one of the above because the expander mandrel is just doing the exact same thing the ball is.

Measure the neck of a 1x piece of brass. Then take your expander ball out of your FL sizing die and size that piece of brass. Measure the neck again. You will notice your factory, not honed FL sizing die is squeezing your neck down WAY more than needed. To the tune of between 0.008-0.01. This is to accommodate many different makes of brass with varying neck thicknesses. This is why we have our FL sizing dies honed. I usually subtract .004 from a loaded round. That way the FL sizing die squeezes the neck down .002 under final neck diameter then the expander mandrel opens it up .002 to give me .002 final neck tension. This works the necks minimally.


I do not use lube with my 21st Century TiN mandrel.

 

[Rthur]

A good tip if you are using expanding mandrels.
Chuck the mandrel in your cordless and polish with flitz.
This and imperial sizing wax work great.

R