Using Pistol Primers for rifles

[Longrange****]

Ok.....I have been looking and looking for SOLID info without much luck or detail....

Wondering if it would work well enough to use pistol primers in our rifles...

Here is what I am looking for:

-a conversion list IE: 223-what pistol primer...308-same...6BR...6.5-47...yadda yadda yadda

-SOLID information as to what using them will do...lower velocities? Higher? Better ES and SD? Worse?

-Are pistol primers Hotter?

-Do you think they will give a complete burn of the powder?

Remember guys we want solid info here....and under <span style="color: #FF0000">NO CIRCUMSTANCE</span> do I recommend a <span style="color: #3366FF">beginner reloader</span> attempt to do this without hearing solid info from an experienced reloader....

Like I said I tried to do a search and found "Ive heard it works" or "I read an article and they say its ok" lets get some solid info going....Im tired of digging like a mad man trying to find small/large rifle primers....Ive had 3K CCI's on order from Gander Mtn for a month now....and Im sick of them telling me they are on the way.....

If you have a link with good info please post it up, just make sure its reliable info....we dont need to be screwing around with any "Jed Clampet" reloading procedures....

Thank you.

 

[dksd39]

Re: Using Pistol Primers for rifles

Small rifle and small pistol are exactly the same size. Rifle is a little hotter (debatable) but generally only marginal. The cup on the rifle is much thicker as is required to deal with the higher pressures.

I know many pistol shooters that use small rifle in place of small pistol. It allows them to run a hotter load before having primer issues. Some handguns will show light primer strikes due to the thicker cup and some with work as expected.

I personally use small pistol in place of small rifle in only one load. I have used them in my 300/221 subsonic. With the very low pressure on this round I do not have to worry about blown primers from the thin cups. I would not recommend using them in a full pressure rifle application as they simply are not designed for it.

Large rifle and large pistol are the same diameter but differ in: depth and cup thickness. I have not tried and do not know anyone that swaps these.

 

[dksd39]

Re: Using Pistol Primers for rifles

forgot one thing- I use them in a bolt gun only as the firing pin of my AR will often pierce the pistol primer.

 

[Longrange****]

Re: Using Pistol Primers for rifles

Thanks guys....If primers become more difficult to attain...I JUST might take you up on that offer!! HAHAHA

I figured if nothing else this thread would help to do away with some of the info out there stating you can use them in your rifles.....if this can be dangerous I sure hope that people will read this thread....maybe an excerpt to the reloading basics should be added about the risks of using pistol primers for your rifles....

Thank you guys....If anyone has anything else to add to this please do....

 

[ggarrett1911]

Re: Using Pistol Primers for rifles

Similar to dksd39 above, I ONLY use CCI large pistol primers in my bolt action 308 subsonic loads. Not enough pressure there to worry about rupturing the primer cup and would NEVER try these with full power loads.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Using Pistol Primers for rifles

If it REALLY gets bad...the pistol primers will work well with the reduced loads required for most cast bullet loads. Some folks are driving the .30's to 2900 with cast...most stick to the 1900 to 2000 fps bracket. Those pressures can be handled well with the pistol primers. I need to get me a couple of .30 cal moulds. JMHO

 

[Just Jim]

Re: Using Pistol Primers for rifles

This doesn't apply too directly, but I've burned up many a pistol primer in black powder .45-70, .40-70SS and .40-65 loads. The pistol primers are actually shorter, and will back out to forcefully "bump" the breechface upon discharge. This has caused some damage with Sharps and other falling block rifles.

Jim...

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Re: Using Pistol Primers for rifles

Not safe to do. Pistol primers are NOT built to take the psi that rifles make. The cups of a pistol primer are much softer metal than rifle primers are. NOW sm. rifle primers in a pistol there is no issue BUT you may have some FTF due to the harder primer cup.
FWIW: .454 Casull brass uses small rifle primer due to the chamber PSI(50,000+).
Respectfully,
LG

 

[former naval person]

Re: Using Pistol Primers for rifles

Lumpyepends upon makes of primers. The Feds are very soft...making them my choice for the small resolvers. CCI's and especially their Mag Primers, are quite hard...they might work well in the 40,000 pound class. I use the CCI's in the .44 maggie and High pressure .45 Colt and (yes the .454...the companies have gone to using large mag pistol primers)...with no problems. Just to keep things in mind in case everything goes to handloading. As the Congress is tending. JMHO Bye the Bye...read my tag line. If you aren't NRA...you should be.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Using Pistol Primers for rifles

They are labelled differently for a reason.

Use your head.

If there weren't insurmountable problems with creating a one-type-fits-all primer, we'd see them on the shelves. Stick to using primers according to their labelling.

Jeez, it's right there on the box, guys.

Shortages create wild schemes. This has happened before. If there was a simple solution, the component maufacturers would be waving it right in our faces, folks.

We caused this issue, and we'll keep right on sustaining it until we get this idea of panic buying out of our pointy little heads.

Treat the market, the makers, and your fellow handloaders with better respect, and the problem will subside. The sooner we get our heads straight, the sooner this will all happen.

It's all just common garden variety supply and demand at work.

Get a grip, people....

Greg

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Re: Using Pistol Primers for rifles

FNP, I don't agree, IF it was a safe practice to switch primers why then do all of our primer makers make both sm. pistol and sm. rifle?
These makers have pressure testing equipment that "we" can only dream of.
When did the makers switch to large primers in the .454 cases? I only have sm. primer cases.FWIW I do use sm. pistol in my "lite" .454 loads(9.0 gr. Unique/255 gr. swc)In the "top end" loads(31.0 gr. H110/300 gr sei.f/p)I will only use sm.rifle.
NRA life from 1964.
Respectfully,
LG

 

[Longrange****]

Re: Using Pistol Primers for rifles

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They are labelled differently for a reason.

Use your head.

If there weren't insurmountable problems with creating a one-type-fits-all primer, we'd see them on the shelves. Stick to using primers according to their labelling.

Jeez, it's right there on the box, guys.

Shortages create wild schemes. This has happened before. If there was a simple solution, the component maufacturers would be waving it right in our faces, folks.

We caused this issue, and we'll keep right on sustaining it until we get this idea of panic buying out of our pointy little heads.

Treat the market, the makers, and your fellow handloaders with better respect, and the problem will subside. The sooner we get our heads straight, the sooner this will all happen.

It's all just common garden variety supply and demand at work.

Get a grip, people....

Greg</div></div>

Greg....there are alot of things out there that are interchangeable that the maker of which doesnt always want you to know about...hell alot of car parts are interchangeable with cheaper options....I asked a solid question that seems to be popping up and was looking for solid answers....I already knew the answer for the most part but figured that I would post it up for others to answer to and for the less experienced to see for themselves....before someone got hurt attempting it....

And besides...for someone like you that may have a large stash of primers you probably dont worry about what is happening right now....I do...I dont have a large stash, in fact I have very few primers. So when those are shot up Im DONE shooting till I can track some more down. I have had a few thousand on back order for about a month now with my local store...and they keep telling me they are coming...

And there is nothing wrong with trying to be resourceful....

And how do you think it started using slow burning Magnum powders in small casings? Do "they" say you should do it....no...but do we...yes...Hell SDWhirlwind is using not only pistol primers in his Bee but also pistol powder....is this something I would try...well no...but he is MUCH more experienced than I.


Long story short....there are alot of things that "they" say we shouldnt do (all in the name of money) but it works just fine. And the only way to learn is to ask questions....hopefully this taught someone a few things and who knows...maybe it saved someones rifle, maybe more....Ive respected you and what you've said more than you know for many years (2001, when I found the Hide) but lets do some learning here...