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Using the Lapua rimfire test facility / shipping lesson learned!

DownhillFromHere

Aim > Impact > Take a Nap
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Nov 30, 2017
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Reading @BigJimFish 's Sniper's Hide article about .22LR lot testing at the Lapua Rimfire Performance Center (LRPC) and learning that a buddy shipped his Vudoo to be tested there finally convinced me to send my Vudoo in as well. I had actually considered making the thousand-mile round trip to the new Ohio facility, but I'm really glad I didn't - the shipping thing was vastly easier and cheaper.

Lessons learned:
  • Don't even bother trying to ship a firearm or anything having to do with firearms through any of those franchised package shipping places. They do not have a bleeping clue what the regulations are. Even if you find one who will ship your firearm - most of them won't - the cost is ridiculous. A franchise place near my home had quoted me $98 to ship my 11-pound parcel with $1700 insurance on it, right up until they started getting all weird and insisted that they had to ship the thing next-day air for way more cost. I took my toy and left.
  • I ended up shipping my barreled action from my LGS. Total cost including $1900 insurance (I forgot the trigger during my first attempt): $48 from central North Carolina.
  • Talking with my gunsmith friend about shipping, he said he goes straight to the UPS terminal facility in our area. He didn't tell me what shipping costs, but he inferred that shipping as an individual costs much more than what a gun store pays to ship the same firearm.
  • If you ship through an LGS as I did, LRPC will request the LGS's FFL and vice versa. Note that your firearm will be returned to the LGS from which it was shipped, not your home. I honestly don't know if it can be returned to your home if it's shipped from a UPS or FedEx terminal facility.
  • LRPC accepts shipments ONLY from UPS or FedEx. Only the LRPC Arizona location accepts shipped-in rifles; the Ohio facility requires owners to bring their rifles in person..
  • Return shipping was even cheaper than what I paid to ship the thing out - not surprising, because I know my LGS charges a fee for their overhead, but it's nowhere the gouging done by the franchises.
  • Lapua and sister company SK use the same lube on all ammo except Biathlon Extreme. So, theoretically I have the option of mixing price tiers of ammo in a match if I want to. That's a big "if."
My rifle was tested the same day it arrived. For info about how that all works, read Jim's article linked above. I requested that my Vudoo be tested with Center-X and Midas+. Not surprisingly, the Midas+ performed a bit better - but not better enough to justify the additional 40% in cost. After studying the test results (which are in line with what Jim's article showed), I asked if there were any more Center-X lots available - it would make sense that LRPC would concentrate more on Midas+ and indeed more Midas+ confirmation groups were fired.

So, a few more Center-X lots were tested and the last one performed close enough to the Midas+ that there was no way I was going to pay at least 8 cents a round more for a bullet's width of improvement at 100 meters / 109 yards.

My buddy's Vudoo set the 100-meter (meters, not yards) site record of 15.3mm for a ten-shot group. Note that LRPC's software measures edge to edge, not center to center. So, measuring center-to-center, his Vudoo shot 10 rounds of that lot of Midas+ into 0.4" at 109 yards. subsequent proof groups weren't that amazing, but still amazing. So he did go for the M+.

My best 100-meter group was a "pedestrian" 0.7" (Midas+); the Center-X lot I ordered grouped 30 rounds into 1.1" center to center and the best 10-shot group matched the Midas+ 0.7" - so I'm a happy camper.

So now I'm waiting to finalize shipping of my two cases of Center-X. Again, the details of how that works are found in Jim's article.

So, in summary, I paid about $125 total cost - including shipping - to have my rifle tested with 24 lots of ammo*, and the most promising lots had multiple 10-shot groups fired. So, as Jim points out in his article, the cost is "crazy cheap." Lapua makes its $$ in selling a case or two or three of ammo as a result. Seems like a pretty slick business model to me.
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* I fully expected to pay extra for the extra testing, but I was communicating in near-real-time and the schedule was slow, so I lucked out. My buddy did pay for an extra round of testing because his rifle had already been packed for shipping when he requested a re-test without his suppressor in place; plus, a total retest required significantly more ammo.
 
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What is their pricing on a case?
Read Jim's article; it's a sort of convoluted process. You "buy" the ammo from whoever you want to at whatever price your vendor charges but the ammo ships from Lapua's warehouse.
 
Goodshootinginc.com posted prices will give you a rough idea.

The key people at LRPC are great to deal with, though I haven't sent a rifle to them, they went above and beyond the call of duty to search for a specific lot of SK Rifle match for me.
 
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When I had some issues with my Vudoo, I just went to UPS and told them it was machined parts. That's what Vudoo told me to say, and they shipped it out for $18.07. It was the original Vudoo packaging with the foam cut out for the BA.

What do you think made the difference between your friend's Vudoo and yours? Was yours already broken in with the 1000 rounds before shipping? What specs is your Vudoo vs his?

Do you ship with a trigger? I'm guessing since it's all locked in a vise, the trigger doesn't matter in terms of pull weight/quality.

Thanks for the write up.
 
Goodshooting.com posted prices will give you a rough idea.
I'm doing my purchase through Good Shooting. Note - they're at GoodShootingInc.com - leaving out the "inc" goes to an unsold domain.

What do you think made the difference between your friend's Vudoo and yours? Was yours already broken in with the 1000 rounds before shipping? What specs is your Vudoo vs his?

Do you ship with a trigger? I'm guessing since it's all locked in a vise, the trigger doesn't matter in terms of pull weight/quality.
Difference was the simple difference between two otherwise identical rifles. And ours are identical as far as I know; both are 20" Ace/Kukri in MPA BA chassis. Both were tested by putting the barreled action in the adapter provided by Vudoo to LRPC. They need the trigger.

Also, I've teased my buddy about bragging about his record-setting group - it was only one group. The other ten-shot groups were not awesome as that one, but still really really good. My experience was the same. Three 10-shot groups were fired with the best lot of Midas+ in my rifle. The smallest was 23.40mm edge to edge at 100m, the largest 33.46 - a nearly 50% difference. The best of the three groups of the Center-X lot I ended up selecting was 4mm larger than the best M+ group - but the three groups totaled had a smaller ES/SD in terms of group size than the M+. As I said - a 2-5mm edge-to-edge improvement at 100m was not worth a 40% price increase to me. My buddy's differential between CX and M+ was more significant.
 
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Goodshooting.com posted prices will give you a rough idea.

The key people at LRPC are great to deal with, though I haven't sent a rifle to them, they went above and beyond the call of duty to search for a specific lot of SK Rifle match for me.
Any idea if they test the SK Rifle Match? I'd love it if they could test a few different loads at/below the price of Center-X. My B14R seems to really like the SK RM I have.
 
Thanks for the report. A buddy here in northern NV drove to the AZ facility with a pair of rifles and they did both rifles in an afternoon. He was home the next day. With, I might add, the lot number of some ammo he later ordered that is beating us all!
 
Any idea if they test the SK Rifle Match? I'd love it if they could test a few different loads at/below the price of Center-X. My B14R seems to really like the SK RM I have.
I'm not sure, they are the importer for Lapua's sub-brand SK and thus have the distribution records to track dealer inventory. To be sure I'd call and ask them. You may have to leave a message.
 
Used to ship lots of rem700 type triggers into US using typical parcel till at one point one package to my distributor ended up at neigbors down the road , luckily this being rural america neighbor brought the package couple of days later , mean while all the research into whereabouts of the package and insurance turned blank , also the full insurance would only maybe cover 400$ not 3500#$ i paid for reason being the contractor they use to deliver the packages doesn't cover more than 400$. Insurance is not as straight forward as you would think ,read the small print .

Switched to UPS which is just about the most expensive on the market , but parcels are lightning fast take something like 3 days from pickup in Europe to being delivered in the US (if the customs doesn't fuck up their job) ,fully insured and actualy delivered with a signature not just tosed over the fence. Packages we ship are rather small but bunch of triggers allways of 3000-4000$ in value so its was always scary when using other than UPS. The only issue is the customs sometimes just doesn't know their stuff.

Don't be cheap pay a bit more for the package and be safe.
 
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Any idea if they test the SK Rifle Match? I'd love it if they could test a few different loads at/below the price of Center-X. My B14R seems to really like the SK RM I have.

Lapua tunnels typicaly don't test any of the SK ammo , last time i tested i aranged with Lapua boss man to have new SK Long Range Match ready to test , but chating up with the tehnician on the factory range while we were testing i was told its first time he tested any SK for a custumer , we tested ammo for 6 barreled actions for 8 hours straight ,but only one 64MPR also with SK ammo rest of the guns only with Lapua. As SK grouped considerably worse than Lapua guy was actualy a bit taken back with the results
 
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Unless there are stricter state laws that complicate matters, long guns (rifles & shotguns) can be shipped via USPS. You don't have to be an FFL to do this, and your gun can be shipped directly back to you. They may also go UPS or Fedex ground and may still be shipped back to you, but USPS is usually cheaper. Handguns can only be shipped by a non-FFL via UPS or Fedex overnight air, which is very expensive. An FFL can ship pistols via USPS. If you want to ship a pistol the cheapest way is often to pay a local FFL to ship it USPS for you.
 
When I go to the UPS terminal I tell them it is recreational equipment.
I assume you're not buying extra insurance, right? If you lie about what's in the box and something bad happens to your shipment I suspect there might be a problem collecting. The helluvvit is that it's so unnecessary when it's perfectly legal to ship a firearm so long as you comply with a few basic rules, its follows:

1. No shipments except to an FFL except as in #4 below.
2. No handguns via USPS except by an FFL.
3. UPS/Fedex shipments only from a hub. You do not have to be an FFL to ship a gun.
4. You can even ship a long gun directly to another non-FFL within your own state. Otherwise it must go to an FFL. Easy-peasy. Last time I checked shipments cost the same from an individual as a business, though businesses that do a lot of business may qualify for a special rate, I dunno.

Some states do have special laws that can really booger things up, of course, but violate these and you're not only violating a shipper's rules you're also violating the law. I prefer staying legal.
 
I forgot to add that an individual can only ship a handgun via UPS or Fedex via overnight air, and it must go to an FFL.
 
If you are insinuating I am, I'm not lying about anything and I always add insurance for the buyer. If you try to create a paid shipping label through the UPS online service it will get rejected if you refer to the shipment as a firearm. When you get asked what you are shipping, I call it recreational equipment, no different than littlepod calling it machined parts. To date I have shipped 5 rifles through UPS, the lady behind the counter even knows I'm shipping long guns.
 
I go directly to the UPS terminal and always let them know it's a firearm that is going to an FFL. It's always been $20-40 to ship the firearm. That's with a hard case inside of a cardboard box. Insurance can double that cost, depending on amount of insurance.

Only thing the facility I go to has even blinked an eye at is about making sure there are no firearm markings on the outer box including brand names. Easy enough to remove any branding stickers... just odd that matters when brand logo is fine when shipping ammo.
 
Unless there are stricter state laws that complicate matters, long guns (rifles & shotguns) can be shipped via USPS.
Not to LRPC. USPS doesn't deliver to the AZ site; the Ohio location doesn't take shipped firearms at all at this point. It's all described on the LRPC website.
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Regarding declaring what I'm shipping, insurance, etc.: I now understand that UPS employees at actual UPS facilities understand UPS guidelines compliant with BATF regulations, and don't give people crap about shipping firearms in compliance with those guidelines/regulations. For me personally, and I suppose any of us who have a good relationship with a reputable LGS, shipping through the LGS is convenient and cost-effective.

I'm not going to lie or obfuscate what I'm shipping and I'm not cheaping out on insurance to save a few dollars. Sheesh, I'm shipping a near-$2000 firearm pursuant to buying at least $1000 worth of ammo for it, and I'm going to quibble over over $20 or even $50 in shipping and insurance cost? It's a rule of thumb that insurers are going to look for ways to avoid paying substantial claims, and a blatant lie about shipping a gun is handing them a "don't have to pay" card. Yeah, sure, go right on and make a fuss about it after the fact, try to get compensation... I'll pay up front.
 
If you are insinuating I am, I'm not lying about anything and I always add insurance for the buyer. If you try to create a paid shipping label through the UPS online service it will get rejected if you refer to the shipment as a firearm. When you get asked what you are shipping, I call it recreational equipment, no different than littlepod calling it machined parts. To date I have shipped 5 rifles through UPS, the lady behind the counter even knows I'm shipping long guns.

Your choice. I wouldn't do that myself, especially when it's so unnecessary.
 
I believe the UPS/Fedex branches are technically not of-the-mothership and are independently owned branches. This explains differences in policies, but doesn’t explain the “why.”

All I can think of is liability, getting sued by someone’s relatives whose loved one gets shot by some goon that got his gun from some non-FFL via shipping.

But, using that logic, one could sue the shipper of said gun that delivered it to your FFL! Heck, people sue firearm manufacturers. At that rate. why not sue the mining firm that dug up the ore for the gun’s metal? Sue the firm that made the ore diggers, and sue the brand of gum the digger operator was chewing?

Firearms are legal. They don’t blow up when shipped (at least, not if they’re not loaded). So why the heck are there blanket regulations on shipping? I could see not being able to ship to a state that forbade shipping to non-FFLs, but only in that case, and not to the whole US. Why a difference between handguns and long guns, even through USPS?

When I had a new lemon Savage rifle (mail order-never again! LGS FTW!), fedex/ups store refused shipping to Savage. I wasn’t about to drive tens of miles out of my way to the middle of nowhere to ship via a UPS terminal. I considered just bending the Savage around a lamppost.

My one-man FFL suggested the USPS; hadn't occurred to me, and it’s actually the closest option! Turns out that I wish I would’ve just wrapped it around that lamppost; Savage didn’t fix the problem.

@Lesloan where did you get your list of regs?
 
Your choice. I wouldn't do that myself, especially when it's so unnecessary.
I know, I'm wasting my time by even responding because I have better things to do than discuss how I ship things. This is my last reply on this subject.
 
Anyone know why the Lapua Center won't accept USPS? Just curious.
 
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Unless there are stricter state laws that complicate matters, long guns (rifles & shotguns) can be shipped via USPS. You don't have to be an FFL to do this, and your gun can be shipped directly back to you. They may also go UPS or Fedex ground and may still be shipped back to you, but USPS is usually cheaper. Handguns can only be shipped by a non-FFL via UPS or Fedex overnight air, which is very expensive. An FFL can ship pistols via USPS. If you want to ship a pistol the cheapest way is often to pay a local FFL to ship it USPS for you.
my wife works for ups, u can ship longuns directly thru them, u can also ship with the local post office. Also , they can be shipped directly back to you. Lately, the cost is almost the same using either one, either shipper can be hard on packages. Learn to pack correctly. It's amazing the items that are shipped and the top recieves way more packing than the bottom. Word to the wise, the bottom makes first contact with the cement. Rule of thumb, a package must be able to withstand a 3' drop onto pavement.
 
Anyone no why the Lapua Center won't accept USPS? Just curious.

Based on my experiences with USPS for work. I'm betting that USPS doesn't want or can't fit so many big items in the truck they have assigned to that mail route.

Instead of trying to deliver items, since they will never send a second truck to help cover an area, I bet they keep all of the big packages at the USPS facility and make the test center come pick up.
 
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Luke and Daniel are great to deal with over there at the test centers.
The process is pretty simple once you find out what lot shoots best.
When you know what you need, give me a call for our dropship pricing from Capstone.
800-273-3366 or email me at [email protected].
If you're happy with our prices, tell me or Gina how many bricks or cases of ammo you're getting and of what kind. We'll get your payment information. Then you tell Daniel or Luke you're purchasing through us and how much you want. Shipping will be added to your order once we get the shipping invoice from Capstone.
Keep in mind that Capstone is probably slammed right now, but your ammo will get to you.

Thanks

Brent
Creedmoor Sports -GM
www.creedmoorsports.com
 
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