Varget + Harrells = @#$%&*! - UPDATE!!!
- Thread starter thefitter
- Start date
Re: Varget + Harrells = @#$%&*!
Ya!
Trickle away... sux but if you want good handloads your going to have to do it that way.
Ya!
Trickle away... sux but if you want good handloads your going to have to do it that way.
Re: Varget + Harrells = @#$%&*!
Wow, whoda thunk that there would be a powder that would throw so differently than all the others. Intersting, thanks for the post.
Wow, whoda thunk that there would be a powder that would throw so differently than all the others. Intersting, thanks for the post.
Re: Varget + Harrells = @#$%&*!
Define and quantify "all over the place".
And let us know ho much worse the numbers are as compared to what specific powder(s) thrown from that same measure.
Don't laugh, but my last check of thrown charges from a Lyman #55 "Ideal" powder measure, using IMR 4064, showed a range of 42.3 to 42.8 grains, with a lot spot-on and quite a few within .1 grain of the average.
Define and quantify "all over the place".
And let us know ho much worse the numbers are as compared to what specific powder(s) thrown from that same measure.
Don't laugh, but my last check of thrown charges from a Lyman #55 "Ideal" powder measure, using IMR 4064, showed a range of 42.3 to 42.8 grains, with a lot spot-on and quite a few within .1 grain of the average.
Re: Varget + Harrells = @#$%&*!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Define and quantify "all over the place".
And let us know ho much worse the numbers are as compared to what specific powder(s) thrown from that same measure.
Don't laugh, but my last check of thrown charges from a Lyman #55 "Ideal" powder measure, using IMR 4064, showed a range of 42.3 to 42.8 grains, with a lot spot-on and quite a few within .1 grain of the average. </div></div>
VARGET
16.9
57.2
75.6
0.00
5.7
XBR
43.2
43.25
43.2
43.3
43.2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Define and quantify "all over the place".
And let us know ho much worse the numbers are as compared to what specific powder(s) thrown from that same measure.
Don't laugh, but my last check of thrown charges from a Lyman #55 "Ideal" powder measure, using IMR 4064, showed a range of 42.3 to 42.8 grains, with a lot spot-on and quite a few within .1 grain of the average. </div></div>
VARGET
16.9
57.2
75.6
0.00
5.7
XBR
43.2
43.25
43.2
43.3
43.2
Re: Varget + Harrells = @#$%&*!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">427Cobra, which powders are the easiest to throw in your experience ? </div></div>
Win231 and TiteGroup throw pretty consistent, oh wait those are pistol powders.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">427Cobra, which powders are the easiest to throw in your experience ? </div></div>
Win231 and TiteGroup throw pretty consistent, oh wait those are pistol powders.
Re: Varget + Harrells = @#$%&*!
My RCBS uniflow will throw XBR to a tenth or spot on every time. The longer the extruded kernel, the more inprecise a volume based drum will be. Cant comment on the Lyman as I havent used one, but if your getting those results with 4064 your definetly not the normal outcome. Static electricity causing bridging, clumping, or the inconsistant cadence of your powder lever operating stroke is likely the cause your getting such poor results with Varget. Make sure the internals, hopper, and drop tube are propperly coated by running at least a pound of powder run through it. Then take a dryer sheet and wipe down the outside of the unit.
Operating the lever should be done the same way each and every time. Finding the propper cadence will take some time to tune your feel of the thrower. Try, up with a bump or tap at the top then down with a tap at the bottom, all done with the lever handle.
My RCBS uniflow will throw XBR to a tenth or spot on every time. The longer the extruded kernel, the more inprecise a volume based drum will be. Cant comment on the Lyman as I havent used one, but if your getting those results with 4064 your definetly not the normal outcome. Static electricity causing bridging, clumping, or the inconsistant cadence of your powder lever operating stroke is likely the cause your getting such poor results with Varget. Make sure the internals, hopper, and drop tube are propperly coated by running at least a pound of powder run through it. Then take a dryer sheet and wipe down the outside of the unit.
Operating the lever should be done the same way each and every time. Finding the propper cadence will take some time to tune your feel of the thrower. Try, up with a bump or tap at the top then down with a tap at the bottom, all done with the lever handle.
Re: Varget + Harrells = @#$%&*!
My nockoff of a lyman measure meters varget extremely well. Sub MOA out to 300 meters from my 6.5x47. It even meters IMR 5010. The trick is to not stop when you're cutting the granules. Just use a little force when throwing the handle and follow thru.
My nockoff of a lyman measure meters varget extremely well. Sub MOA out to 300 meters from my 6.5x47. It even meters IMR 5010. The trick is to not stop when you're cutting the granules. Just use a little force when throwing the handle and follow thru.
Re: Varget + Harrells = @#$%&*!
I'm not sure how you are running your Harrells but I've NEVER seen those kinds of variations with my Harrells & Varget.
Worst case +/- 0.3gr with majority being closer to desired weight and plenty spot on.
Might have to change velocity of rotation when you throw the charge with Varget vs. 8208. Without seeing your method, hard to troubleshoot the issue.
I can say my Harrell's & Varget is much more repeatable than what you are reporting.
I'm not sure how you are running your Harrells but I've NEVER seen those kinds of variations with my Harrells & Varget.
Worst case +/- 0.3gr with majority being closer to desired weight and plenty spot on.
Might have to change velocity of rotation when you throw the charge with Varget vs. 8208. Without seeing your method, hard to troubleshoot the issue.
I can say my Harrell's & Varget is much more repeatable than what you are reporting.
Re: Varget + Harrells = @#$%&*!
I use an RCBS and Redding BR-3. Neither one will do well with Varget. The Redding has a sharper cutting surface but is still inconsistant. Set it at 45.0...it will drop several +/- .1 grain, but when I cut a kernel..it is usually .4 grain heavy.
I do like everyone else..drop it short then trickle to what I need.
I load Benchmark thru the Redding, and all charges are dead on. I don't get sub MOA accuracy with it in my .308 bolt gun, but liked it OK in the AR-10...where I needed to load quantities. I even use it on my RCBS Pro2000 and it dropped charges perfect every time...did not vary even .05 grain charge/charge! It goes thru a powder measure like silk.
It's the price we pay to use Varget!
I use an RCBS and Redding BR-3. Neither one will do well with Varget. The Redding has a sharper cutting surface but is still inconsistant. Set it at 45.0...it will drop several +/- .1 grain, but when I cut a kernel..it is usually .4 grain heavy.
I do like everyone else..drop it short then trickle to what I need.
I load Benchmark thru the Redding, and all charges are dead on. I don't get sub MOA accuracy with it in my .308 bolt gun, but liked it OK in the AR-10...where I needed to load quantities. I even use it on my RCBS Pro2000 and it dropped charges perfect every time...did not vary even .05 grain charge/charge! It goes thru a powder measure like silk.
It's the price we pay to use Varget!
Re: Varget + Harrells = @#$%&*!
My Lee Pro Auto disk seems to throw 43.5 with the largest double disk setting. It can vary .2 or .3 either way but seems to generally be a little higher in my testing. I noticed that the first throw when I have filled the hopper with powder is almost always 44.0 on the dot. I tried all different ways to see if I could reliably get it to throw that every time since that is the load I am going for. How much of a effect will that much variance have if I just start churning out ammo and have anywhere from 43.4 to 43.8 in the cases? Will it still be better than factory hunting ammo?
My Lee Pro Auto disk seems to throw 43.5 with the largest double disk setting. It can vary .2 or .3 either way but seems to generally be a little higher in my testing. I noticed that the first throw when I have filled the hopper with powder is almost always 44.0 on the dot. I tried all different ways to see if I could reliably get it to throw that every time since that is the load I am going for. How much of a effect will that much variance have if I just start churning out ammo and have anywhere from 43.4 to 43.8 in the cases? Will it still be better than factory hunting ammo?
Re: Varget + Harrells = @#$%&*!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FCS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not sure how you are running your Harrells but I've NEVER seen those kinds of variations with my Harrells & Varget.
Worst case +/- 0.3gr with majority being closer to desired weight and plenty spot on.
Might have to change velocity of rotation when you throw the charge with Varget vs. 8208. Without seeing your method, hard to troubleshoot the issue.
I can say my Harrell's & Varget is much more repeatable than what you are reporting. </div></div>
+1 on that! I will also say that ANY powder measure that throws within .1 consistently is a heck of a measure. I feel there are several that are capable of that often, but NOT consistently! I have a Harrels premium culver, a RCBS precision, a LEE perfect and had a Redding BR....all good, but NONE of em throw within .1 consitently, .3 yeah, the Harrels and (perhaps a surprise) the LEE, but .1 is tough!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FCS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not sure how you are running your Harrells but I've NEVER seen those kinds of variations with my Harrells & Varget.
Worst case +/- 0.3gr with majority being closer to desired weight and plenty spot on.
Might have to change velocity of rotation when you throw the charge with Varget vs. 8208. Without seeing your method, hard to troubleshoot the issue.
I can say my Harrell's & Varget is much more repeatable than what you are reporting. </div></div>
+1 on that! I will also say that ANY powder measure that throws within .1 consistently is a heck of a measure. I feel there are several that are capable of that often, but NOT consistently! I have a Harrels premium culver, a RCBS precision, a LEE perfect and had a Redding BR....all good, but NONE of em throw within .1 consitently, .3 yeah, the Harrels and (perhaps a surprise) the LEE, but .1 is tough!
Re: Varget + Harrells = @#$%&*!
Wait are those numbers in your second post the charge weights it's throwing with varget?? If so the powder is binding up in the drop tube. Get a clear tube and then you'll be able to see what's going on.
Wait are those numbers in your second post the charge weights it's throwing with varget?? If so the powder is binding up in the drop tube. Get a clear tube and then you'll be able to see what's going on.
Re: Varget + Harrells = @#$%&*!
Harrels powder measure works best for ball powders (or small extruded powders like r15).
i do not use mine where precision loads are required. while you can as others have suggested, throw and trickle, the best solution i found is the RCBS ChargeMaster.
Harrels powder measure works best for ball powders (or small extruded powders like r15).
i do not use mine where precision loads are required. while you can as others have suggested, throw and trickle, the best solution i found is the RCBS ChargeMaster.
Re: Varget + Harrells = @#$%&*!
Yup, throwing a zero weight charge is most likely something more than just the powder used.
I've done a whole bunch of experimenting, like using the knocker lever on the Ideal, not using it, and years ago even closing to the cut point on something (RCBS Uniflow???) and then opening back up to the fill position and then going back to cut the charge.
If it's an extruded powder, few things made much of a difference. Using the knocker on the Ideal threw heavier but less consistent charges last time. Sample sizes of at least 20 charges. Still fiddling and have been compiling all new notes into one big spreadsheet.
With the Dillon measure, the best results came from tapping 3-5 times with a 3/8 combo wrench on the measure body while the powder was in pickup position--but the =/- 0.2 grains was still spoiled by one that was +0.4 grains or so every 25-30 charges.
Spherical powders, mind-numbingly consistent, almost always +/- 0.1 for a total spread of 0.2, even with the Dillon measure. They have lots of advantages, but temperature/velocity stability is NOT one of them (shelf life stability can be much better with them, no "specimen defect" lots that I've ever heard of, regarding stabilizers and starting to break down early).
Yup, throwing a zero weight charge is most likely something more than just the powder used.
I've done a whole bunch of experimenting, like using the knocker lever on the Ideal, not using it, and years ago even closing to the cut point on something (RCBS Uniflow???) and then opening back up to the fill position and then going back to cut the charge.
If it's an extruded powder, few things made much of a difference. Using the knocker on the Ideal threw heavier but less consistent charges last time. Sample sizes of at least 20 charges. Still fiddling and have been compiling all new notes into one big spreadsheet.
With the Dillon measure, the best results came from tapping 3-5 times with a 3/8 combo wrench on the measure body while the powder was in pickup position--but the =/- 0.2 grains was still spoiled by one that was +0.4 grains or so every 25-30 charges.
Spherical powders, mind-numbingly consistent, almost always +/- 0.1 for a total spread of 0.2, even with the Dillon measure. They have lots of advantages, but temperature/velocity stability is NOT one of them (shelf life stability can be much better with them, no "specimen defect" lots that I've ever heard of, regarding stabilizers and starting to break down early).
Re: Varget + Harrells = @#$%&*!
I have the best luck with the crappy all-plastic Lee that came with my first starter kit! I've tried more expensive throwers as well as the Hornady electric one and nothing measures as accurately from round to round as that cheapy!
I have the best luck with the crappy all-plastic Lee that came with my first starter kit! I've tried more expensive throwers as well as the Hornady electric one and nothing measures as accurately from round to round as that cheapy!
Re: Varget + Harrells = @#$%&*!
Wanted to follow up and say that it was in fact the small tube giving me trouble. I put the 1/4" tube in and it's working fine.
+1 to the guys at Harrels that sent me a replacement because I misplaced my original.
Varget + Harrells =
Wanted to follow up and say that it was in fact the small tube giving me trouble. I put the 1/4" tube in and it's working fine.
+1 to the guys at Harrels that sent me a replacement because I misplaced my original.
Varget + Harrells =
Re: Varget + Harrells = @#$%&*!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have a great powder throw, but Varget is not going to throw consistently out of any powder throw; throw low and trickle up, my friend.</div></div>
Which is why I use the Prometheus II for Varget and IMR 4064
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have a great powder throw, but Varget is not going to throw consistently out of any powder throw; throw low and trickle up, my friend.</div></div>
Which is why I use the Prometheus II for Varget and IMR 4064
Re: Varget + Harrells = @#$%&*!
As has been suggested if those are your charge weights there is nothing wrong with your measure, you have a bridging problem. The Harrells is highly spoken of, I would advise contacting them as they have good customer service.
Even my old Uniflow throws acceptable charges of Varget. The only powders I have real problems with are IMR3031,IMR4198 and the like.
There is much to be said of operator technique with old school powder measures.
As has been suggested if those are your charge weights there is nothing wrong with your measure, you have a bridging problem. The Harrells is highly spoken of, I would advise contacting them as they have good customer service.
Even my old Uniflow throws acceptable charges of Varget. The only powders I have real problems with are IMR3031,IMR4198 and the like.
There is much to be said of operator technique with old school powder measures.
