Virgin brass not grouping

[parkerg31]

I recently got some brand new Alpha brass for 6.5CM. With my same load that I was using in nosler, lapua, and even hornady brass, it would shoot the same speed and super low S.Ds (2-4 range), but would not group for shit. I tried reloading one that I had fired and what do you know, it goes back to a ragged hole. My question is, do I need to fire form every single piece or is there a way to fix it without shooting all hundred rounds.

 

[ShtrRdy]

I've noticed this behavior in the past too. I'm thinking it has something to do with the squeaky clean brass sticking with the squeaky clean bullets. Lately I've been costing the necks of new brass with Imperial Dry Neck Lube. This seems to help.

 

[sjc929]

If you didn’t run the necks through an expander ball or a mandrel, most virgin brass I’ve used (especially Lapua) has very undersized necks. Loading it without expanding would give extremely high neck tension, and could cause your problem. I also agree that what ShtrRdy mentioned could cause your problem. Based on your description, I doubt the cause is related to the unformed body of the case, but nothing is impossible. I think it is a result of something involving the bullet/ virgin brass interaction. For what it’s worth, I haven’t seen any problems involving virgin brass not grouping, at least not for a very long time. I don’t know what kind of rifle and barrel you’re using, but if it isn’t a very high quality (like a factory Rem, Savage, or Ruger), that could also be the simple answer.

 

[Milo 2.5]

I recently got some brand new Alpha brass for 6.5CM. With my same load that I was using in nosler, lapua, and even hornady brass, it would shoot the same speed and super low S.Ds (2-4 range), but would not group for shit. I tried reloading one that I had fired and what do you know, it goes back to a ragged hole. My question is, do I need to fire form every single piece or is there a way to fix it without shooting all hundred rounds.

First, transferring a load to a different brand of brass can cause issues, new or fired. I thought ALpha brass had reduced capacity in 6.5 creed.
2nd, how can one fired case, loaded again constitute a ragged hole?

 

[SkyScrapin]

Fire forming will uniform the case to your chamber. I'd still uniform the virgin necks of your brass for consistent neck tension. I never do load dev with virgin brass and therefor I don't use dry neck lube for the first firing. These first fire forming loads are used to break in the barrel in the event the barrel speeds up which it often does.

 

[Steel head]

My new brass always gets a mild plinker load through it first.

 

[parkerg31]

First, transferring a load to a different brand of brass can cause issues, new or fired. I thought ALpha brass had reduced capacity in 6.5 creed.
2nd, how can one fired case, loaded again constitute a ragged hole?

Im with you man and I thought the same thing, but I chronographed the Alpha brass with the same load, and got the same speed. Im wondering the same thing about your second question thats why i'm confused.

 

[parkerg31]

If you didn’t run the necks through an expander ball or a mandrel, most virgin brass I’ve used (especially Lapua) has very undersized necks. Loading it without expanding would give extremely high neck tension, and could cause your problem. I also agree that what ShtrRdy mentioned could cause your problem. Based on your description, I doubt the cause is related to the unformed body of the case, but nothing is impossible. I think it is a result of something involving the bullet/ virgin brass interaction. For what it’s worth, I haven’t seen any problems involving virgin brass not grouping, at least not for a very long time. I don’t know what kind of rifle and barrel you’re using, but if it isn’t a very high quality (like a factory Rem, Savage, or Ruger), that could also be the simple answer.

Im going to try running them through the die and see what it does. Also using a factory RPR barrel so you could be right, I've just never had issues grouping before

 

[19Scout77]

If you only reloaded ONE piece of fire-formed Alpha brass as you stated in the original post, then OF COURSE you had a single hole group...unless you reloaded and shot it several times.

 

[parkerg31]

If you only reloaded ONE piece of fire-formed Alpha brass as you stated in the original post, then OF COURSE you had a single hole group...unless you reloaded and shot it several times.

My bad haha I worded it wrong. I reloaded a five shot group of once fired brass with the same load and it shot a ragged hole.

 

[sjc929]

Also, I just thought of this. It’s odd you’re getting good SD, which implies to me you’re problem isn’t related to high neck tension or problems like cold welding, those should cause erratic velocity between shots. Perhaps the problem is runout on the virgin brass, and your bullet is going into the lands at a bad angle with the virgin brass. You should be able to test this by loading some virgin brass and jamming the bullet into the lands. That should remove or at least diminish any bad runout, and you could see if the groups tighten up and maintain good SD. That’s the only thing I can think of that would cause bad grouping, uniform velocity, and would be solved after being fired in the chamber.

 

[parkerg31]

Also, I just thought of this. It’s odd you’re getting good SD, which implies to me you’re problem isn’t related to high neck tension or problems like cold welding, those should cause erratic velocity between shots. Perhaps the problem is runout on the virgin brass, and your bullet is going into the lands at a bad angle with the virgin brass. You should be able to test this by loading some virgin brass and jamming the bullet into the lands. That should remove or at least diminish any bad runout, and you could see if the groups tighten up and maintain good SD. That’s the only thing I can think of that would cause bad grouping, uniform velocity, and would be solved after being fired in the chamber.

Ill have to give it a try.

 

[Milo 2.5]

My bad haha I worded it wrong. I reloaded a five shot group of once fired brass with the same load and it shot a ragged hole.

Glad you clarified that, lol Run a few new brass through an expander ball and retest. If no good, try some neck lube on few, either way you have to get the rest of the new fired, all good.

 

[Snuby642]

Imho.
If you want your new brass to shoot like your old brass, treat it the same.

I tumbe with polish, run it through sizing die, tumble with polish, check length debur
and load as normal.

The polish gets rid of dry neck issues and running through your die makes it nearly the same as once fired.

 

[parkerg31]

Also, I just thought of this. It’s odd you’re getting good SD, which implies to me you’re problem isn’t related to high neck tension or problems like cold welding, those should cause erratic velocity between shots. Perhaps the problem is runout on the virgin brass, and your bullet is going into the lands at a bad angle with the virgin brass. You should be able to test this by loading some virgin brass and jamming the bullet into the lands. That should remove or at least diminish any bad runout, and you could see if the groups tighten up and maintain good SD. That’s the only thing I can think of that would cause bad grouping, uniform velocity, and would be solved after being fired in the chamber.

Wanted to give an update to everyone. Just came back from the range. I tried running the virgin brass through an expander die to decrease neck tension, and it helped some, but did not yield the results of the fire formed brass, but big improvement. I also increased my powder charge and that seemed to close my groups some also, which is funny because you would think that Alpha brass would call for a decrease in power, but I actually lost velocity on my original load.