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Vortex lht 4.5-22 durability test

762 ULTRAMAGA

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 29, 2018
900
2,131
Idaho
Has, or can anyone do a durability/tracking test with the new vortex lht 4.5-20 or even a 3-15 model?
Some guys on another forum are claiming significant zero loss after dropping the mounted optic like 6" on snow.
I'm considering this scope and would really appreciate some more testing from a more respected forum community
 
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i was reading that. certainly not a large sample size (one) but not happy to hear about that given i just bought one (4.5-22), and actually a little older 3-15.
 
I have a few of the 3-15s, they are decent scopes for the money, and have had no issues with loss of zero for me.

The details above are exceedingly vague, can you point to the specific post in question?
 
Has, or can anyone do a durability/tracking test with the new vortex lht 4.5-20 or even a 3-15 model?
Some guys on another forum are claiming significant zero loss after dropping the mounted optic like 6" on snow.
I'm considering this scope and would really appreciate some more testing from a more respected forum community
i was reading that. certainly not a large sample size (one) but not happy to hear about that given i just bought one (4.5-22), and actually a little older 3-15.
So we have one guy on the interwebs who claims loss of zero by dropping his rifle in snow? What are the details here? Does he know how to mount a scope? Use quality rings and bases? Correct torque values? Check his base for looseness? Action screws? Factory ammo or handloads? Can he even shoot a consistent zero? A lot of data missing here…….
 
So we have one guy on the interwebs who claims loss of zero by dropping his rifle in snow? What are the details here? Does he know how to mount a scope? Use quality rings and bases? Correct torque values? Check his base for looseness? Action screws? Factory ammo or handloads? Can he even shoot a consistent zero? A lot of data missing here…….
Go to Rokslide and search for the vortex 4.5-22 test.
He's a self proclaimed expert on the forum but other than that I know nothing about him except he exhibits bias and misinformation on other topics.
I'm not saying his results are total bs but I'd sure like to see someone replicate the test with a few drops from 6" to several feet, then check zero and tracking.
 
So we have one guy on the interwebs who claims loss of zero by dropping his rifle in snow? What are the details here? Does he know how to mount a scope? Use quality rings and bases? Correct torque values? Check his base for looseness? Action screws? Factory ammo or handloads? Can he even shoot a consistent zero? A lot of data missing here…….
 
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Well shitttttt. Tagging in for further info. I do agree its one guy with one test. Hoping others (I dont own one yet) perform similar testing.
 
Go to Rokslide and search for the vortex 4.5-22 test.
He's a self proclaimed expert on the forum but other than that I know nothing about him except he exhibits bias and misinformation on other topics.
I'm not saying his results are total bs but I'd sure like to see someone replicate the test with a few drops from 6" to several feet, then check zero and tracking.
He may or may not be an “expert”. Over 20 years of selling motorcycle fuel solutions I have run up against these experts sitting in their underwear critiquing my products. It always amazed me how little these guys who rose to that forum status actually knew, nevermind there total lack of understanding of testing protocols.


Thanks! That certainly provides some missing context. I’ll look it over when I have some more time.
 
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My wife’s 3-15x42 SFP lost zero this year on a antelope hunt when she stood up from glassing and knocked the rifle over on its left side from a bipod. Not a big fall, maybe 9” but it was on baseball sized rocks.

About an hour later she missed a goat twice, both impacts were in the exact same place, about a mil right and .6 low I would guess (I was on a spotter with no reticle) she’s normally a pretty good shot when she’s prone, so I had my suspicions since both impacts were in the exact same place.

When we got home I took her rifle out and shot at my 5 or 600 yard plate (can’t remember which) and it was off, both are pretty big plates 12” circles and from what I could tell it was off about exactly what I guessed. That was her last tag of the year so I never shot it on paper to see the exact shift and re zero it

That said I really like the scopes. I just picked up a 4.5-22 ffp model to try out. I’m gonna put it on my Creed that I mostly just shoot steel with and do a few drop test and see if I can trust it. I’m hoping that her shift was just a one-off. My hunting partner also has one and his has been hunted with pretty extensively this year and no issues at all.
 
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I’ve read all of the threads over there on this and the other scopes tested. #1 these types of test needs to be performed and I am glad they are being done by someone. #2 - I believe the reviewers when they say they have no bias, they just want an optic to perform as it’s intended function with reasonableness. #3 - the test parameters seem fairly simple and the argument for them seems reasonable.

My biggest argument is they need to be validated with a multi sample set. (But who has that kind of money). My biggest complaint is the main reviewer Form…. clams to have seen extensive numbers of each scope manufacture and how well they perform (or don’t) and has established consensus on which brands are bad performers.

To save some time, (he - Form..) says there are thee constant performers that will hold point of impact zero regardless of abuse. - 1 Nightforce, 2 - SWFA, 3- Bushnell LHS.

Again, I am a messenger and you can read all the info on the other site. This will be interesting and it should be something we all are interested in. Not a crap throwing session about favorites. We all benefit when manufactures are proven or disproven as performers.
 
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My wife’s 3-15x42 SFP lost zero this year on a antelope hunt when she stood up from glassing and knocked the rifle over on its left side from a bipod. Not a big fall, maybe 9” but it was on baseball sized rocks.

About an hour later she missed a goat twice, both impacts were in the exact same place, about a mil right and .6 low I would guess (I was on a spotter with no reticle) she’s normally a pretty good shot when she’s prone, so I had my suspicions since both impacts were in the exact same place.

When we got home I took her rifle out and shot at my 5 or 600 yard plate (can’t remember which) and it was off, both are pretty big plates 12” circles and from what I could tell it was off about exactly what I guessed. That was her last tag of the year so I never shot it on paper to see the exact shift and re zero it

That said I really like the scopes. I just picked up a 4.5-22 ffp model to try out. I’m gonna put it on my Creed that I mostly just shoot steel with and do a few drop test and see if I can trust it. I’m hoping that her shift was just a one-off. My hunting partner also has one and his has been hunted with pretty extensively this year and no issues at all.
Please post your test results if you do some sort of drop verification.
I'm thinking it'd be a good metric to even drop the rifle onto its but pad from a few feet to induce some shock
 
My wife’s 3-15x42 SFP lost zero this year on a antelope hunt when she stood up from glassing and knocked the rifle over on its left side from a bipod. Not a big fall, maybe 9” but it was on baseball sized rocks.
Sound like that impact could vary from a “love pat” to a pretty darn good bashing.

Some details that would be helpful.

Was there any visible damage? Scratches, gouges, dents etc?
What rings and bases were in use?
Assuming, proper torque on all?
Did you check base screws for breakage?
Did you verify action screw torque?

Thanks…..
 
My LHT HD 3-15x42 broke as well (on a subsonic 300blk bolt gun so hardly a 300wsm in term of recoil). Wandering zero. I made a post about it couple of months ago. Got it warrantied and sold it at loss and replaced it with a 3-12 S&B klassik with mil/mil and illum.
Much happier with the S&B to be honest. I’d never trust a Razor LHT HD for any hunts but I’d trust the 3lbs Razor Gen 2 4.5-27 ... I just wouldn’t want to carry it too far.
 
Sound like that impact could vary from a “love pat” to a pretty darn good bashing.

Some details that would be helpful.

Was there any visible damage? Scratches, gouges, dents etc? No
What rings and bases were in use? ATRS 30mm rings with T25 screws
Assuming, proper torque on all? Defiance pinned picatinny rail base
Did you check base screws for breakage? Yup
Did you verify action screw torque? Yup.

Thanks…..
I always laugh when people say “ohh it must be you and not the scope”
When my HDMR2, XITR II, Athlon Cornus, S&B has no issues.
When somehow when it’s a magical vortex PST or Razor LHT that does crazy wandering zero or elevation turret unscrewing itself then it must be my rings, or base mount or torque limiter or whatever.
Yet when you put any other scope .... it doesn’t suffer from such mounting incompetence
And I’m not trashing all Vortex products ... I literally just bought a 4.5-27
 
I always laugh when people say “ohh it must be you and not the scope”
When my HDMR2, XITR II, Athlon Cornus, S&B has no issues.
When somehow when it’s a magical vortex PST or Razor LHT that does crazy wandering zero or elevation turret unscrewing itself then it must be my rings, or base mount or torque limiter or whatever.
Yet when you put any other scope .... it doesn’t suffer from such mounting incompetence
And I’m not trashing all Vortex products ... I literally just bought a 4.5-27
Same scenario plays out elsewhere, except substitute Leupold in place of Vortex.

The Optics Forum no matter which board you frequent on the WWW is a funny place!
 
Sound like that impact could vary from a “love pat” to a pretty darn good bashing.

Some details that would be helpful.

Was there any visible damage? Scratches, gouges, dents etc?
What rings and bases were in use?
Assuming, proper torque on all?
Did you check base screws for breakage?
Did you verify action screw torque?

Thanks…..
No damage to the scope, Bighorn TL3 factory pinned rail, Hawkins tactical rings (4 screw). Everything properly torqued. I just ran out and shot it and did some “drop testing” I’ll post the results and target pics here in a minute.
 
Alright, I can shoot 100 yards a few minutes from my house so I ran out to see exactly how far off it was and if I could repeat it. I was wrong on how far off it was, it wasnt as bad as I had said. Here is the first shot: 86B3BE53-3E22-40D6-95BF-61E904CCEE19.jpeg
I dialed .6 and .5 and overshot it left so came back .1 and shot this 3 shot group. It could come down but it was good enough for now. 8C691D9B-49F6-4A72-A454-7ED5D111ED1B.jpeg
I pulled the bolt and the bipod and dropped it from about 18” onto my shooting mat. I did 3 times each side of the gun, no drops where it landed on the top of scope. The snow was somewhat packed from laying on it but by no means rock hard. The rifle still landed harder then I would have guessed. Fired another:6272E3AE-993C-4628-94ED-C084DCBAD1E4.jpeg
This one went left 1.20 pulled the bolt and bipod and did 5 drops on each side and fired another:53830A16-2C62-4FAC-817D-1A9C9B93EE7A.jpeg
Continued:
 
This one went back almost in the group before any drops had happened. Now I’m thinking I maybe pulled the one that went left? It felt good and normally I don’t shoot that badly but it left me wondering. Went for the home run this time, 8 drops each side and got a little braver and was probably dropping it 20”-22” this time. Shot one more:67BA13E4-A005-4D30-A2F6-905C91E6FC85.jpeg
This one goes right exactly 1/2”. I have 4 rounds left so I decide I’ll drop it a few more times for good measure then shoot a group. I went to a new target so I could keep everything in the right order. 1CFA423F-E07D-4B9F-9B99-B786EA45CCA7.jpeg
It moved a little further right, center of group is 1” off. The first shot is the furthest right, then the other 3 stacked in good.

Pic of the drop area:B34CC11A-F433-4F17-B4BE-DEDF16A94ECB.jpeg

So in the end I got about 2 1/4” of total movement without touching the dials. So it’s definitely shifting zero with drops. I wish I would have had more ammo to be able to shoot at least 2 or 3 after each drop session just to cut the chance of a flier and getting bad info. I feel like all the shots broke clean but there is always that chance.
 
I always laugh when people say “ohh it must be you and not the scope”
When my HDMR2, XITR II, Athlon Cornus, S&B has no issues.
When somehow when it’s a magical vortex PST or Razor LHT that does crazy wandering zero or elevation turret unscrewing itself then it must be my rings, or base mount or torque limiter or whatever.
Yet when you put any other scope .... it doesn’t suffer from such mounting incompetence
And I’m not trashing all Vortex products ... I literally just bought a 4.5-27
I do tech support every single day, for motorcycle fuel solutions, that I designed, for that past twenty years, worldwide. In my world this is normal gathering of data. Nothing more. I have a reputation among the demo I serve as being exceedingly good at doing this over the phone.

In the past year I had two customers who swore they installed my product correctly that did not realize they did not have enough gas in their tank to get them above reserve yet they were switched to main. In short, they were out of gas. Now this is my first question.

I could go on for hours with stories like that. The worst offenders are the 30 year experienced mechanics. If a guy that can’t turn a butter knife to change a wall cover socket cover calls me and asked if he can install our kit, I tell him he’s my best customer not to worry. We will hold his hand.

The very first thing you do when looking at a problem is establish what exactly you are dealing with. So you ask some basic questions. A person with an above 85 IQ should know this instinctively. Gather data, gather data and gather more data.

I do beta testing for several shooting industry companies. You can imagine it is this approach and experience in troubleshooting and data gathering that is valued.

Having said that, I am pretty good at scope mounting by now. If I were to have an issue with a scope THE VERY FIRST THING I would do is verify torque, equipment etc. That information would be included in my post ASSUMING anyone with a technical mind would ask for it……

 
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No damage to the scope, Bighorn TL3 factory pinned rail, Hawkins tactical rings (4 screw). Everything properly torqued. I just ran out and shot it and did some “drop testing” I’ll post the results and target pics here in a minute.
Good stuff. Certainly not questioning your veracity. Looks like you have those bases covered. Good on you for looking at this objectively and doing further testing.
 
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This one went back almost in the group before any drops had happened. Now I’m thinking I maybe pulled the one that went left? It felt good and normally I don’t shoot that badly but it left me wondering. Went for the home run this time, 8 drops each side and got a little braver and was probably dropping it 20”-22” this time. Shot one more:View attachment 7776339
This one goes right exactly 1/2”. I have 4 rounds left so I decide I’ll drop it a few more times for good measure then shoot a group. I went to a new target so I could keep everything in the right order. View attachment 7776343
It moved a little further right, center of group is 1” off. The first shot is the furthest right, then the other 3 stacked in good.

Pic of the drop area:View attachment 7776344

So in the end I got about 2 1/4” of total movement without touching the dials. So it’s definitely shifting zero with drops. I wish I would have had more ammo to be able to shoot at least 2 or 3 after each drop session just to cut the chance of a flier and getting bad info. I feel like all the shots broke clean but there is always that chance.
Thanks for taking the time to do that, looks like you'd better not drop that scope on a hunt for sure if you're shooting long range
 
My LHT 3-15 tracked great for a lot of 22 matches, took a few minor spills, and it held up fine. It's not an extreme test of durability but probably representative of normal usage. I love the weight, glass, and precision tracking in the line and I'll be getting the 4.5-22 soon.
 
When I get some time I’m going to do this whole thing over again just to satisfy my own curiosity before sending it in. I have a 6 creed barrel for that gun that’s a absolute hammer, I think I’ll be able to see one tenth shifts with it. I think I’m only going to drop it on one side several times, shoot it and then do the other side etc.

See if there is any pattern to it as far as it moving. Maybe get brave and do a few where it lands on the top to see if that causes a elevation shift?

I do feel (could be wrong) that this is a anomaly. My brother also has one and he is anything but easy on gear and he has had zero problems with his. He took a fall with his rifle strapped to his pack last year in Wyoming that looked like something out of a kids comedy when the bad guy slips on ice and we checked his zero the next morning and it was perfect. When my FFP version gets here I’m going to test is out too just to see. If it moves I guess I’ll keep on packing 34 oz scopes on my hunting rifles.
 
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NF 4-32. It’s heavier and costs more but you don’t have to worry about shit like this.
Oh for sure. I have a few 4-16 Atacrs that have been flat beat on and not shifted. Couple years ago we killed a bull on the north side of a fresh burn with a little fresh snow on top of frozen ash. Had I know how bad it was going to be probably wouldn’t have shot it. You literally couldn’t go 10’ without eating shit. And it was all about a 30 degree slope. I’m not sure how many times we went down just getting over to him not even counting the packout. I thought if there ever was a time that a NF would lose zero this was it. Shot it a few days later to check. I still have the pic on my phone lol. CE63AE12-0E68-4668-847F-6AF6B517D90E.png
 
This one went back almost in the group before any drops had happened. Now I’m thinking I maybe pulled the one that went left? It felt good and normally I don’t shoot that badly but it left me wondering. Went for the home run this time, 8 drops each side and got a little braver and was probably dropping it 20”-22” this time. Shot one more:View attachment 7776339
This one goes right exactly 1/2”. I have 4 rounds left so I decide I’ll drop it a few more times for good measure then shoot a group. I went to a new target so I could keep everything in the right order. View attachment 7776343
It moved a little further right, center of group is 1” off. The first shot is the furthest right, then the other 3 stacked in good.

Pic of the drop area:View attachment 7776344

So in the end I got about 2 1/4” of total movement without touching the dials. So it’s definitely shifting zero with drops. I wish I would have had more ammo to be able to shoot at least 2 or 3 after each drop session just to cut the chance of a flier and getting bad info. I feel like all the shots broke clean but there is always that chance.
Thanks for the testing this isn't making me feel warm and fuzzy about my 3-15, and looking forward to further testing. Guess im going to be holding out on any more lht purchases for a little while.
 
When I get some time I’m going to do this whole thing over again just to satisfy my own curiosity before sending it in. I have a 6 creed barrel for that gun that’s a absolute hammer, I think I’ll be able to see one tenth shifts with it. I think I’m only going to drop it on one side several times, shoot it and then do the other side etc.

See if there is any pattern to it as far as it moving. Maybe get brave and do a few where it lands on the top to see if that causes a elevation shift?

I do feel (could be wrong) that this is a anomaly. My brother also has one and he is anything but easy on gear and he has had zero problems with his. He took a fall with his rifle strapped to his pack last year in Wyoming that looked like something out of a kids comedy when the bad guy slips on ice and we checked his zero the next morning and it was perfect. When my FFP version gets here I’m going to test is out too just to see. If it moves I guess I’ll keep on packing 34 oz scopes on my hunting rifles.
If you do more testing could you pretty please incorporate a quick tracking element in after dropping and checking zero?
Maybe just dial it up 20 moa for a quick and dirty tall target style test.
I'm really looking forward to your test of the new model.
NF 4-32. It’s heavier and costs more but you don’t have to worry about shit like this.
I didn't have tracking issues with my 4-32 NX8 but the optical issues pissed me off almost as much, I couldn't sell it fast enough.
If the newer LHT proves not to be durable I may look into a v4 4-16×50 or the LRHS2
 
yeah, i heard complaints on the 2.5-20 but not on their 4-32 nx8
 
If you do more testing could you pretty please incorporate a quick tracking element in after dropping and checking zero?
Maybe just dial it up 20 moa for a quick and dirty tall target style test.
I'm really looking forward to your test of the new model.

I didn't have tracking issues with my 4-32 NX8 but the optical issues pissed me off almost as much, I couldn't sell it fast enough.
If the newer LHT proves not to be durable I may look into a v4 4-16×50 or the LRHS2
Ya I can, It won’t be anything real professional so I wouldn’t put a ton of stock in it. The LHT in question has been dialed on steel at least a decent amount, I have never seen any problems always RTZ fine and never had any misses that weren’t wind or shooter induced. If it has tracking error it has to be pretty small.

I’m with you on the NX8, the 2.5-20 didn’t work for me at all. The 4-32 is better but still not my cup of tea. I don’t think the Zeiss V6 or V4 are real reliable, seen a V6 go down from a ATV ride in a hard case and a buddy had a V4 that didn’t RTZ or hold zero. Small sample but not good. The LRHS2 may be the answer, the old ones are pretty bulletproof. Still not light though.
 
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Iv had the 3-15 50 on a hunting rifle for a couple of years now without any problems. Probably my favorite hunting scope
 
Ya I can, It won’t be anything real professional so I wouldn’t put a ton of stock in it. The LHT in question has been dialed on steel at least a decent amount, I have never seen any problems always RTZ fine and never had any misses that weren’t wind or shooter induced. If it has tracking error it has to be pretty small.

I’m with you on the NX8, the 2.5-20 didn’t work for me at all. The 4-32 is better but still not my cup of tea. I don’t think the Zeiss V6 or V4 are real reliable, seen a V6 go down from a ATV ride in a hard case and a buddy had a V4 that didn’t RTZ or hold zero. Small sample but not good. The LRHS2 may be the answer, the old ones are pretty bulletproof. Still not light though.
Right on I really appreciate the effort
Yeah I actually had a few tracking issues with an older V4 so I'll probably skip that altogether.
That lrhs2 would be a no brainer for a lightweight hunting rig if it weighed about 5 oz less.
What optical issues?
8x erectors in short tubes dont mix
Finicky parallax, tunneling/tight eye box, mediocre glass, sub par in low light compared to other scopes in that price range.
I like the old NXS 100% more than the nx8
 
I had a NXS F1 back in the day and my NX8 4-32 blows it away. There is no comparison. The only issue I have with it is the distortion of the image, bending of straight lines, that happens below 10x if you move your head off center.
 
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So I packed mine with my skis, in a hard ski case, technically velcroed in place. Technically in a gun sock, too, but that was more for scratches than impact.

I don’t want to know what the baggage handlers did to beat the case up that much, but my 4.5-22 held zero just fine.
 
I replaced a Nightforce SHV 4-14 SFP with the 4-14 F1 FFP on my main hunting rifle (Tikka T3 7RM). I immediately hated the eye relief of the FFP model. However, I had no issues with either scope holding zero or tracking out to 600yds. I shot several decent 6-8" 5 shot groups at 600yds and generally did not adjust zero between seasons. Along comes the lighter and smaller format Vortex LHT 3-15. Scott at Liberty Optics came through at an excellent price point.

LHT 3-15 #1 was returned due to terrible optical performance.

LHT#2 was night and day different and inline with my other Razor scopes optically. LHT#2 Spent two hunting seasons on the Tikka in the same mounts/rings as the SHVs. It always seemed to have a minor wandering zero (1-2 clicks or zero adjustment every range trip) and tracking was inconsistent on steel. Never could recreate the tracking issue on a tall target test so I stopped using the dialing capability for hunting. Finally on a Pronghorn hunt, where the scope likely saw a few bumps, I missed a shot I didn't feel I should have missed. I'm normally a one shot and done hunter. I finally decided it had to be the scope and started taking the the gun to the range every trip and shooting the same target. Composite group over a few months was ~4" at 100yds. Not happy. Vortex replaced.

LHT#3 is now mounted on a 17HMR for Prairie dogs.

I have replaced the LHT on Tikka with a Nightforce NX8 2.5-20. I zero'd the rifle on my first range trip and over the last half dozen trips have only adjusted the zero once by one click when comparing the average of multiple targets over multiple trips. I won't be buying a 4.5-22 LHT.

The NX8 2.5-20 is definitely a compromise optic and it may get replaced, but I have not had wandering zero issues with my Nightforce scopes (SHV/NXS/NX8/ATACR). Admittedly, my Vortex Razor scopes have been good as well but my experience with the Vortex Gen II PSTs and now the LHT loosing zero has soured the brand a bit.
 
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I was looking at the 3-15 as well and am in a similar boat of trying to think of a good alternative. Not easy for the weight to price ratio. I’d be happy to spend a little more to get a similar weight but have a much more reliable optic.
 
I have a 3-15 LHT that’s on a Kidd Supergrade. I’ve not abused it by any means but it’s my squirrel rifle. It has spent a total of 20+ hours riding in the back of a vehicle (last season and this season) in a soft case and hasn’t missed a squirrels head yet.
 
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I definitely won't rule out the scope. I have had my share of issues with Vortex on a (well technically multiple) AMG. The customer service was great. The scope still is not, but it functions (for now at least.)

I do question the testing. There was a thread on here some years ago where comp shooters were testing all manner of things that could effect your zero with drops or impacts, even small impacts. It was identified by some very good comp shooters that bedding, the clearance of barrel thread to receiver thread fit, barrel torque, scope bases, and scope rings could all effect the systems zero.

The conclusion was that chassis or stocks needed to be bedded to support the action on the sides tightly, (a bedding block was not sufficient), a tight thread fit between barrel tenon and receiver is preferred, and certain brands of rings held zero well while some could easily induce .3 mil shifts with minimal side impact to the scope. I wish I new how to find the old thread.

My point is, when all of these things were attributed to a system losing zero somewhat by shooters with top of the line gear that can shoot very well, how can we possibly blame the scope when it could be any number of things as discussed above?
 
I questioned the same thing. The. As I read he details how this set of rifles has had the action, rails, and mounts permanently bonded. What does this mean, I have no clue, but he addressed this as step 1 in his initial review.

The fact that there is someone else in this thread that went and attempted the same with very similar results is absolutely beyond coincidence. Bad design or manufacturing.
 
I definitely won't rule out the scope. I have had my share of issues with Vortex on a (well technically multiple) AMG. The customer service was great. The scope still is not, but it functions (for now at least.)

I do question the testing. There was a thread on here some years ago where comp shooters were testing all manner of things that could effect your zero with drops or impacts, even small impacts. It was identified by some very good comp shooters that bedding, the clearance of barrel thread to receiver thread fit, barrel torque, scope bases, and scope rings could all effect the systems zero.

The conclusion was that chassis or stocks needed to be bedded to support the action on the sides tightly, (a bedding block was not sufficient), a tight thread fit between barrel tenon and receiver is preferred, and certain brands of rings held zero well while some could easily induce .3 mil shifts with minimal side impact to the scope. I wish I new how to find the old thread.

My point is, when all of these things were attributed to a system losing zero somewhat by shooters with top of the line gear that can shoot very well, how can we possibly blame the scope when it could be any number of things as discussed above?
excellent point
 
Lrtsi/lrhsi with a lighter action (ie Defiance anTI/anTI X)
S&B klassik 3-12 if you happy with only 3.3 mils of travel.
 
I definitely won't rule out the scope. I have had my share of issues with Vortex on a (well technically multiple) AMG. The customer service was great. The scope still is not, but it functions (for now at least.)

I do question the testing. There was a thread on here some years ago where comp shooters were testing all manner of things that could effect your zero with drops or impacts, even small impacts. It was identified by some very good comp shooters that bedding, the clearance of barrel thread to receiver thread fit, barrel torque, scope bases, and scope rings could all effect the systems zero.

The conclusion was that chassis or stocks needed to be bedded to support the action on the sides tightly, (a bedding block was not sufficient), a tight thread fit between barrel tenon and receiver is preferred, and certain brands of rings held zero well while some could easily induce .3 mil shifts with minimal side impact to the scope. I wish I new how to find the old thread.

My point is, when all of these things were attributed to a system losing zero somewhat by shooters with top of the line gear that can shoot very well, how can we possibly blame the scope when it could be any number of things as discussed above?
As far as just thinking about this problem, @koshkin has an article on his site (or perhaps one of his sites; not sure how many he has now) that talks about scope Durability vs Repeatability. I cannot link directly so you’ll have to use the “find” function of your browser once you are on the page.

I think you have a very good point about confounding factors when trying to get to the bottom of why a rifle loses its zero. I remember the post you mention…I’ll try to find it.

As you say, there is a “practical” holding of zero (how does a scope hold zero on my rifle?), which people mainly discuss and that really involves a whole system: rings, torque, scope, base, bedding, etc. And then there’s the “absolute” ability of a scope to hold zero (just the scope). You may quibble with my word choices but you get the idea.

To really test that last bit, I’m sure there’s a way, but I’m not sure how a regular dude could test it. As you throw the scope about you cannot have it mounted to, say, a Badger Dead Level (BDL), as then you’re going to be simultaneously testing the rings, the ring torque, the BDL, and the ring base torque at the same time. This is not even considering the fixture you’d have to build to index the BDL at the target once you’re done with the abuse. All you’ve eliminated is the rifle bedding/barrel-receiver interface/rifle’s scope base etc.

But if you cannot have the already scope attached to anything (rings, rifle, etc) in order to test how well it (and only it) holds zero, then how can you know if the zero has shifted? Scope manufacturers surely have extremely solid fixtures with a repeatable mount of some sort that stays pointed at the same spot in space. Perhaps their mount does not even squeeze the scope to isolate even that variable.

Unless you already have a rifle/ring/base/bedding/barrel-receiver-interface/etc that you somehow KNOW is so solid that you can confidently rule out those factors…? Again, beyond most guys’ ken.

I don’t know, but I’m sure koshkin or other engineer-y types have an answer. @E. Bryant
 
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There was a thread on here some years ago where comp shooters were testing all manner of things that could effect your zero with drops or impacts, even small impacts. It was identified by some very good comp shooters that bedding, the clearance of barrel thread to receiver thread fit, barrel torque, scope bases, and scope rings could all effect the systems zero.

Perhaps it was this thread? It started out talking about the ARC Barloc shift post hit but drifted in a more general direction.