Rifle Scopes Vortex Razor EBR-2B experiences

[AKONA]

Hi.
I already know many of you love the vortex products. There are many good reasons for that.
I like the idea of fast reticles but I have a few questions...

A) Does the EBR-2B really works when put through the paces?

B) Does the 10mil per rotation really matters then vs the 5 mils per rotation?

C) Or I am better off to sticking to classic/plain mil-dot / mrad stadias with 10 mil x rotation for fast dialing?

I appreciate any opinions specially those with hands on experience.

Many thanks.

 

[sandwarrior]

Yes, it works. It's busier than shit though. I prefer the EBR-1 reticles that are stadia on crosshair. There is plenty to work with on those.

As far as the 10 mil vs. 5 mil. yes, also. For the needed applications if you want to dial up quickly the 10 mil will get you there much faster. And with the needed breakdown of elevation for accuracy. Say you only need 7 mils. you do a half turn then count/watch the other two mil. You should see the setting when you get there anyways.

If you are just shooting bench then it won't matter for the 10 vs. 5 mil turret.

 

[AKONA]

Yes, it works. It's busier than shit though. I prefer the EBR-1 reticles that are stadia on crosshair. There is plenty to work with on those.

As far as the 10 mil vs. 5 mil. yes, also. For the needed applications if you want to dial up quickly the 10 mil will get you there much faster. And with the needed breakdown of elevation for accuracy. Say you only need 7 mils. you do a half turn then count/watch the other two mil. You should see the setting when you get there anyways.

If you are just shooting bench then it won't matter for the 10 vs. 5 mil turret.

Thanks for the prompt response.

So let me see I get this right. The idea of the rapid reticle is to do it w/o dialing anything... let me explain.
I will rarely shoot this rifle more than 800 yards and occasionally 1100 or so that to me means 5 to 6 mils on average and 10-11 max.
I steal 20 moa from the mount but I will never use the entire range of adjustment.
So if I have to dial lets say 575 yards that is 3.2mils I would just hold it if w/o touching anything.
But then lets say I want to go to 1000 yards that is 8.9mils I could dial one rotation (5) and hold 3.9 that even at large magnification will be pretty centered in terms of the optical center.
Of course if I had 10 mil per rotation I could do everything up to 1100 yards and hold the remaining .6 and for anything below those ranges I will never pass one ration but I would prefer
to have a larger positive click (less clicks per rotation) than a finer smaller click that sometimes are harder to feel specially with gloves. So here is an opportunity to leverage things if
after all I am going with a rapid reticle to use it, that means less clicks and more holds.
I guess this why I am asking .lol..

 

[Smooth_87]

I've got a 10 mil EBR-3 on the way.

I chose 10 mil because i wanted to fill the space on the turrets, in my opinion the razor elevation turret has plenty room for 10mil per turn and the spacings on the 5 are HUGE.

I kind of like the open centre on the ebr2b but really like the simplicity of the ebr3 and don't need the drop tree or the extra $250 charge for the 10mil ebr2b, for the amount ill hold elevation id rather a clean reticle, not like it cant still be done if required.

Thats why i chose 10mil EBR-3, excited to get it

hope that helps

 

[sandwarrior]

Smooth_87

Just emerging from the Dark Ages still here....

I like the breakdowns on the -3 reticle. I've always had a relatively tough time (not so much getting it right as getting it quickly) with mils. If I'm given mils and dial/hold mils I can do alright. But, converting for me, takes a little less than a year. But, I'd certainly like to hear your thoughts and see your results when you get your scope mounted and firing.

AKONA,

What Smooth_87 has shown you is exactly what I like in a scope. A completely graduated scope in even breakdowns that are useable. I can only say that the "Christmas tree/Horus type reticle gives you an exact breakdown of splash and adjustment, it also gets in the way. What I, and Smooth_87 are showing is that with a clearly graduated crosshair, you can see/hold where your next shot needs to be. You have to be attuned to holding back on POA and being able to adjust POI. Sometimes that is a long way. Case in point, my Grendel. I have it zeroed at 6 moa high at 100 yds. Based on previous determined velocity, it took 16 moa hold up (22 moa total) to hit at 765 yds. It hit dead on.

The point in that story is you can see wind (l-r) holds and elevation holds simply with a crosshair. Getting so busy with the EBR-2B can block your ability to calculate/see splash. Four open quadrants are easier to see where it hits and how to adjust. Up, then slide over for wind/off adjustment. Simple as pie.

 

[AKONA]

Smooth you will love the EBR3 no doubt, I have that one too.

I understand with the EBR-2B one needs to adjust methodology. We cannot look at the end-to-end picture the same way. I think the 10vs5mil is not the huge deal 5 might be too much of a click.
But the "it is too busy" is the part I want to understand. After-all isn't the business what gives this tree the capacity to do fine adjustments w/o touching anything, or at least that was the idea?
Or perhaps the case is that they are becoming popular but nobody is really using them the way they should? I mean nobody who can show good results with a supposedly fast and solid method.
The traditional approach works well we know that but I like the idea of some "semi automation" but not quite convinced this actually works that is why I am inquiring.

I guess this needs a bit more thinking that is for sure.

 

[Smooth_87]

Thanks guys, im used to the ebr1 mrad PST i just sold so its pretty much the same

the tree is for holding both wind and elevation, given you have the references on that tree it could be slightly quicker and more precise, but you could also argue under time constraint if your not dialing elevation you wont find it any faster than holding with the ebr3

 

[AKONA]

Thanks guys, im used to the ebr1 mrad PST i just sold so its pretty much the same

the tree is for holding both wind and elevation, given you have the references on that tree it could be slightly quicker and more precise, but you could also argue under time constraint if your not dialing elevation you wont find it any faster than holding with the ebr3

Well yes one can hold/guess on the target but then there are target situations and high wind values where one will have to dial in vs pivoting on the tree for correction.
So I wonder those who use it does this really works? I mean, not just in paper where everything works (LOL), but in the real deal perhaps shooting fast alternating targets being called
randomly at various distances. What you describe we know it works and works well with these scopes with fast turrets that track to the T but I remain skeptical about the EBR-B2 actual return on investment.
And I don't mean dollars so much but gray matter spent into figuring it out.

 

[M77]

I have a Razor ebr2 with 10mil turrets . I find the reticle not to be busy at all , from anything to 100m to 500m+ . I felt that when I had the 5mil turrets they were "Good" but now with the 10mil version . They are a shitload better and way more audible/tactile

 

[AKONA]

Many Thanks for the feedback.
So lets forget about the more coarse larger click. The 10 mil click I know how it works as it should be the same regardless of the reticle (The devil you know).
Out to 350'ish yards for my cartrige is easy in my case. I would not need a powerful glass for that. So based on your experience M77 you think withing mid to long range there is no need to touch the turrets at all?
Of course the standard way is always there as an option but if the reticle can work then why do not retrain oneself to avoid it and see if one can move faster?
Also for long shots is it easy to dial lets say 6 and hold the other 4 or 5 in an area of that tree that has plenty of references to adjust quickly and follow ups w/o ever touching the windage or changing elevation on the turret?
The way I understand the reticle one could easily correct for wind .2 mils using the dots and then still hold on the target or based on the spotter's call if you have one.
But for long shots one could dial all the way and then correct as usual so the main thing is going to be on the mid range 1 to 6 mills to see if it can be done without touching the turrets at all. Does it actually work?
I need to think this through... this "FAST" ideas is not as simple as it seems that is for sure...

 

[delixe]

I had a Razor 5-20 with the EBR-2B.
The wind + elevation dots (Christmas tree) are not nearly as prominent as those in a Horus or G2DMR reticle, and they did not radically reduce my ability to see detail in the lower quadrants.
Of course the amount of obfuscation will vary from user to user.

My scope was 5 mil/rev, and the quality of the detents could easily support 10 mil/rev.
The Razor has a very substantial turret system.
10 mil/rev is the way to go.

 

[AKONA]

I had a Razor 5-20 with the EBR-2B.
The wind + elevation dots (Christmas tree) are not nearly as prominent as those in a Horus or G2DMR reticle, and they did not radically reduce my ability to see detail in the lower quadrants.
Of course the amount of obfuscation will vary from user to user.

My scope was 5 mil/rev, and the quality of the detents could easily support 10 mil/rev.
The Razor has a very substantial turret system.
10 mil/rev is the way to go.

Thanks. It looks like folks do not like the 5mil clicks. So we will stick to what we know.
I don't know Bushnell in terms of glass quality and construction but even if their G2DMR was a better system I would not consider it.
I am quite happy with the way the razor performs from an optical and mechanical stand point and I does anything I ask it to do so far.
you said you "HAD" the EBR-2B .. may I ask why you don't have it anymore?

G2DMR ....it seems simple but perhaps too simple....

 

[CSTactical]

Now is a good time to buy a Razor HD 5-20x50 EBR-2B with the price drop Use this link to see the Vortex Razor HD. These scopes are rock solid, good glass, and track very well.

Mike CSTACTICAL

 

[delixe]

Thanks. It looks like folks do not like the 5mil clicks. So we will stick to what we know.
I don't know Bushnell in terms of glass quality and construction but even if their G2DMR was a better system I would not consider it.
I am quite happy with the way the razor performs from an optical and mechanical stand point and I does anything I ask it to do so far.
you said you "HAD" the EBR-2B .. may I ask why you don't have it anymore?

G2DMR ....it seems simple but perhaps too simple....

Earlier this year I felt guilty about the amount of money I had invested in scopes, and I went on a cheap scope bender. I replaced a Zeiss Diavari FL, a Steiner Military 5-25x56, and the Razor with a Bushnell DMR on my .260, a Bushnell ET 6-25x50 FFP on my .308, and a Weaver Tactical 3-15x50 (also FFP) on my 24" Krieger barreled AR-15.
The glass in all these scopes (built in Japan by LOW) is plenty good enough and they all cost less than $800. My investment for all 3 is less than one Alpha scope.
I shot no better when I had the S&B PMII, or the March 3-24 FFP, or the USO ER25, or the Steiner Military.

My next build will have a DMR on top, too.

IMO the G2DMR needs more wind hold at each elevation to be really useful.
Being as I dial elevation and hold wind, I get by with plain mildots in all my scopes now. That really helps when I'm buying used as they don't fetch as much as units with fancier reticles.

The Razor HD glass is a little better than the scopes I have now but not enough to really benefit me.
It is a great scope, even more so at the current closeout pricing.
I was lucky to get rid of mine before the bottom fell out of the market.

 

[AKONA]

Earlier this year I felt guilty about the amount of money I had invested in scopes, and I went on a cheap scope bender. I replaced a Zeiss Diavari FL, a Steiner Military 5-25x56, and the Razor with a Bushnell DMR on my .260, a Bushnell ET 6-25x50 FFP on my .308, and a Weaver Tactical 3-15x50 (also FFP) on my 24" Krieger barreled AR-15.
The glass in all these scopes (built in Japan by LOW) is plenty good enough and they all cost less than $800. My investment for all 3 is less than one Alpha scope.
I shot no better when I had the S&B PMII, or the March 3-24 FFP, or the USO ER25, or the Steiner Military.

My next build will have a DMR on top, too.

IMO the G2DMR needs more wind hold at each elevation to be really useful.
Being as I dial elevation and hold wind, I get by with plain mildots in all my scopes now. That really helps when I'm buying used as they don't fetch as much as units with fancier reticles.

The Razor HD glass is a little better than the scopes I have now but not enough to really benefit me.
It is a great scope, even more so at the current closeout pricing.
I was lucky to get rid of mine before the bottom fell out of the market.

I like the Razor as I said I am a loyal happy customer already. And I know what you mean about some others. the weaver tactical is plain but it tracks perfectly and the glass is good quality. It just works!
We know a well trained shooter can shoot all day with a one of the modern well priced out the box Precision rifles and a SS, that is no secret.
Some folks tend to focus too much on equipment and forget about the most important part that is professional training and then putting the flight hours required.

 

[delixe]

I like the Razor as I said I am a loyal happy customer already. And I know what you mean about some others. the weaver tactical is plain but it tracks perfectly and the glass is good quality. It just works!
We know a well trained shooter can shoot all day with a one of the modern well priced out the box Precision rifles and a SS, that is no secret.
Some folks tend to focus too much on equipment and forget about the most important part that is professional training and then putting the flight hours required.

Once I'm outfitted with decent equipment, the only thing that's going to make me a better shooter is more trigger time. I have the decent equipment. My local club is clearing lanes out to 800 yards, more trigger time.
One definite advantage to the Vortex is their service. Yeah, yeah better yet is a product that never needs service... but I had a few gripes about my Razor (purchased used). I had it back in 9 days, 6 of which were shipping to and from. They resolved all my complaints including replacing the slightly rotated reticle and replacing the windage turret. I sent one Bushnell ET in for service (again, a gripe, not a failure) and it too 5 weeks to get the refurbished unit they replaced it with. I don't compete (yet) so I can live with a 5 week turnaround, but it sure was nice getting my optic back in roughly one week.

 

[sandwarrior]

Akona,

Along the lines of training, I've fired rifles with the Horus and EBR-2B on top. Not trained extensively. As delixe pointed out it will vary from user to user. I've gotten pretty comfortable with my methodology of 1. calculate shot, bring rifle poa up to predicted poi. Slide over for wind. Check, H-crosshair and V-crosshair for relationship to references. Good?, yes?, squeeze. Hold either target, poi or poa to calculate what to move crosshairs.

Without solid background reference this is difficult at best for large holds. Holding a verticle/horizontal crosshair on blue/cloudy/rainy sky don't work all that well. In consideration of that, the lower branches of the Christmas tree could be held in relation to the horizon. In any case, I'll acknowledge here that while the reticle is busy for me, I already have a methodology. And, as noted, others who have trained with it feel it's something they can get comfortable with.

 

[AKONA]

Akona,

Along the lines of training, I've fired rifles with the Horus and EBR-2B on top. Not trained extensively. As delixe pointed out it will vary from user to user. I've gotten pretty comfortable with my methodology of 1. calculate shot, bring rifle poa up to predicted poi. Slide over for wind. Check, H-crosshair and V-crosshair for relationship to references. Good?, yes?, squeeze. Hold either target, poi or poa to calculate what to move crosshairs.

Without solid background reference this is difficult at best for large holds. Holding a verticle/horizontal crosshair on blue/cloudy/rainy sky don't work all that well. In consideration of that, the lower branches of the Christmas tree could be held in relation to the horizon. In any case, I'll acknowledge here that while the reticle is busy for me, I already have a methodology. And, as noted, others who have trained with it feel it's something they can get comfortable with.

Thanks. Well it makes sense and large holds is what I am concerned about.
I need to do a bit more thinking / research and perhaps I will not know until I actually try it.
Many thanks for the feedback.

 

[Rob01]

A little late to the discussion but will jump in anyways Don't have one but a google search showed a pic of the actual 2B reticle. Dots in the lower quadrants are not so large as to obscure any splash to call corrections or anything you might be observing. You can hold or dial. Gives you both options. Even with a standard reticle you can make elevation and windage holds with practice. Some don;t like it as they are "holding off in space" but it can be done with practice. The 2B just gives you that ability and makes it a little easier with the dots.

As to 5 mil vs 10 mil knobs it's up to the user. Either will work just fine. around 10 mils will get most .308s to 1000 yards so you will be at around 2 turns in on a 5 mil turret. Some people like closer clicks and some like larger area between clicks so they can easily see where they are at.

 

[FALex]

I have used my 2B reticle without any issues. I still dial for most shots, but it is nice for holding over on targets at varying ranges. I have never had any of the dots obscure splash, fyi.

 

[Shibby!]

Vortex Razor EBR-2B experiences

I have the first gen razor but would love this reticle on the my next scope which will be the Gen 2.

Comment about the revolutions per turn knob. I prefer "slower" turrets because they have more defined and less "dainty" clicks. Much better for less concentration or cold hands. Big difference when using mine then jumping on my friend's NF. I often overshot and have to stop and focus on adjustments.

Personal preference but just wanted to highly the benefit to what some consider less good.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[tat668]

I think that the most important for choosing a scope is the purpose of the rifle. A few years back when I first wanted to try long distance shooting I do not want to break my piggy bank and bought a Chinese made Falcon Nemesis scope from England; it cost less than $400 then. Shot the 308 Winchester in the Sacramento 1000 yard range 3 times and it did all I need it to do for me. The image is bit blurry, but with the mirage boiling over the target it was hard for me to tell if how bad was my less then $400 scope. I hit the target to 800 yard with no problem.

Last week I attended the XLR class at Gunsite in Arizona, and the class is set up to teach shooting from 1500 meter to 2000 meter. I was using the S&B 5-25x56mm PMII scope, and the images was clear and steady all the way to 2000 meter and beyond. The real challenge was on the last day on the unknown distance range where 18"x24" steel were placed among trees and scrubs. Those in the shade was just almost impossible to spot with the S&B rifle scope and the 80mm leupold spotting scope, but once the target was identified by the S&B, the ones in the shade between the shadow of the trees, I can hold and see the hit clearly. Those hits were not identifiable with the 80mm Leupold spotting scope on 20 power. The image on the 80mm spotting Leupold scope worsen when I dial the power up higher and did not help to spot those hits.

I had 2 consecutive hits at 1607 meter, cold bore 1st and 2nd round hits, and I can clearly see the mark the bullets made with the S&B PMII. It was wonderful to see the black spot on the white painted surface of the steel target and a short moment later heard the "ding" report.

So, I would say, buy the best scope you can afford for the purpose you are going to use the scoped rifle for. No use in using the S&B PMII for a 800 yard shot, when any other lesser glass can do adequately. As for adjustment for vertical come up, I have 20 moa scope rail and 20 moa scope ring, the vertical come up was 23.5 mil for my 2000 meter shot and my scope had only 22.7 mil from 0, so I dial up 22.5 mil and held 1 mil up. I hit the 2000 meter steel on the 5th and 7th round. I was satisfied. The pointed 285 grain Hornady .338 Lapua Magnum was heading out the muzzle at 2980 fps. The BC of the bullet was adjusted up to 7.5 from the pointing and the drop was verified at the 1500 yard range paper target. The ammo was loaded to single loading length and NOT the cip length magazine length of the AX AICS chassis.

 

[Smooth_87]

Just mounted up my ebr3 10 mil turret model.

Turrets are fabulous very crisp and tactile, glass is great, nice and bright and crisp. reticle is nice and defined and simple. Parralax is very user friendly and not sensitive to dropping out of focus, eye relief larger than most.

Eurooptic are first class!!!

look forward to taking it out!!

 

[AKONA]

One of the guys here at one of the clubs told me today he has an EBR2B on a winmag so I am going to give it a try.
you will love the ebr3. That is a given. A lot of glass for the money.

 

[Smooth_87]

know a guy with the 10mil er2b, im sure you will be happy with that also!!!