Rifle Scopes Vortex Razor LHT 4.5-22x50 Disappointment

[Scopeye]

There's a lot of helpful information here, and I appreciate the detailed response. I have avoided the temptation to try the Titan--even at $450 or $475 (used and like new), and have also passed on a like-new or two Nexus for about $900.00. For this and that reason I have not gone the way of Arkens.

I have been fortunate to get most of my optics on very good prices, so I won't get killed with resale.

Yes, I did get the March on sale for under $2,500 months ago. I copy, but that ship sailed.

I am not familiar with the Maven or the Toric.

I also have the Razor LHT 3-15x50. Some like the LHT line, and some do not. In hand-held use, it does hold a flat image with little distortion. I have not looked through it at significant distances. Yes, the turrets leave something to be desired. Light it is, though.

I do like the ZCO 4-20x50, but that probably won't happen any time soon.

If you have anything else to say, say on. If not, then take care for now, and thanks again.
F7

Well then, knowing what you currently own does help some and you probably want at least comparable optics if not better for a reasonable price.

You probably want to avoid Arken no matter if they say they use Japanese glass because the Chinese glass Athlon usees in your Ares ETR is already night and day superior to ANY ARKEN with "SO CALLED" Japanese ED glass. Even the Chinese HD glass used in the Athlon Midas BTR G2 and Midas Tac and Ares BTR G2 are far superior to any of Arken's Japanese ED glass and even the Chinese "ED" glass used in the Bushnell Match Pro "ED" and the XD ultra high definition Chinese glass used in the Vortex Strike Eagle (no thanks).

If you're itching to buy something meaningful then I think the $565.49 Walmart online special Athlon Ares BTR G2 4.5-27x50 won't be this cheap for much longer since it's even cheaper than the past Black Friday sale prices (historically sold for around $670) and you have up to a 90 day free returns window too. I'd recommend buying at least 2 or more of them before the prices go up. It offers a lot more than the current Element Nexus that's for sure. Buy at least one of the optional sunshade and a decent set of flip up lens covers and few sets of 30mn Burris Signature XTR rings ($70-$80 when you shop around for best deals). First time trying these Burris Signature XTR rings you'll never want to go back to rings that may risk marking up your scopes.

 

[farwest]

I am so thankful for my Leupold Mark-5 3.6x18x44's and Zeiss L3 4x25x50's. Everything works perfectly. When you consider time spent on warranty/trouble shooting, I would rather spend a little more on a quality product. These were my first Zeiss scopes and I was pleased with the quality. Only God is perfect, so there are some trade offs. I still shop vendors/sales. Most people qualify for some sort of VIP/loyalty program.

 

[Faith7]

Well then, knowing what you currently own does help some and you probably want at least comparable optics if not better for a reasonable price.

You probably want to avoid Arken no matter if they say they use Japanese glass because the Chinese glass Athlon usees in your Ares ETR is already night and day superior to ANY ARKEN with "SO CALLED" Japanese ED glass. Even the Chinese HD glass used in the Athlon Midas BTR G2 and Midas Tac and Ares BTR G2 are far superior to any of Arken's Japanese ED glass and even the Chinese "ED" glass used in the Bushnell Match Pro "ED" and the XD ultra high definition Chinese glass used in the Vortex Strike Eagle (no thanks).

If you're itching to buy something meaningful then I think the $565.49 Walmart online special Athlon Ares BTR G2 4.5-27x50 won't be this cheap for much longer since it's even cheaper than the past Black Friday sale prices (historically sold for around $670) and you have up to a 90 day free returns window too. I'd recommend buying at least 2 or more of them before the prices go up. It offers a lot more than the current Element Nexus that's for sure. Buy at least one of the optional sunshade and a decent set of flip up lens covers and few sets of 30mn Burris Signature XTR rings ($70-$80 when you shop around for best deals). First time trying these Burris Signature XTR rings you'll never want to go back to rings that may risk marking up your scopes.

I agree with the first sentence and second paragraph. I am not presently itching to get anything because I somewhat recently bought several scopes, including the ETR and the LHT. I am in a holding pattern, and but you made me think about the Ares BTR, but the parallax of 25 yards (I just looked it up) is beyond my preference. Thanks just the same. I do some close quarters pesting.

 

[Scopeye]

I agree with the first sentence and second paragraph. I am not presently itching to get anything because I somewhat recently bought several scopes, including the ETR and the LHT. I am in a holding pattern, and but you made me think about the Ares BTR, but the parallax of 25 yards (I just looked it up) is beyond my preference. Thanks just the same. I do some close quarters pesting.

The closest they will focus clearly when set to lower magnification is 4-5 yards at 4.5x and 8x was around 6-7 yards last time I personally looked through one of mine to see the actual closeness it would focus at and 11-12 yards at around 12x and 15-16 yards at 20x. I actually had one on a 10 meter competition air rifle. You won't be missing out based on my own testing. If you have nearsightedness you can see evem closer with it while not using your glasses. I had a buddy with terrible eyesight try shoot it and he said he could see crystal clear as close as 2-3 yards with it set at 4.5x and 10-11 yards at 20x of course the parallax was at it's minimum 25 yards. He shoots his guns without his glasses and I thought it was odd. He told me adjusting the ocular made it much closer focus for him (the adjustment to get the reticle in focus). I could actually hit things as close as 4-5 yards and far as 50-60 yards with a 10 meter air rifle with the Athlon Ares BTR G2 scope mounted onto it believe it or not.

My Athlon Cronus 4.5-29x56 and Tract Toric ELR 4.5-30x56 and Bushnell Elite Tactical 4.5-30x50 all have a 25 yard minimum focus parallax but they can't see as clearly at closer distances when compared to the Ares BTR G2s' more forgiving closer distance ability. Japan vs Chinese made BTW.

Arkens are the worst when it comes to trying to focus at really close distances even their new EPL4s don't focus down to 10 yards even if the actual dial starts at 10 yards. It's realistically 12-13 yards depends on your scope model and variances from scope to scope.

Even though the Athlon Ares BTR G2 4.5-27x50 start at 25 yards on their side focus parallax wheel, you would need 25 yards distance only if you want to see clearly at it's maximum magnification of 27x.

Even the cheaper Athlon Midas BTR G2 4.5-27x50 SFP which has a 30 yard minimum focus can see clearly at just under 10 yards when set on it's lower magnification. For this one, 15 yards is all you need and you'd be pretty much fine going up to around 15x-16x.

The Japan made Vortex Razor LHT 3-15x50 isn't as clear as the Chinese Athlon Ares BTR G2 specifically when compared side by side at 4.5-15x magnification. I bet your Chinese Ares ETR smokes it in optical quality at 3-15x magnification as well.

Vortex doesn't seem to use top of the line glass in their Japan LHTs IMHO which reminds me of my old Japan made Bushnell Elite 4200s and 4500s and Elite Tactical 4.5-30x50s which were considered good a decade ago but not great by today's standards. I think even my old Japan made Weavers (better glass than the Bushnells) have superior glass compared to the Razor LHTs.

 

[Faith7]

Again, Scopeye, this is helpful data.

I am going to do some focus/parallax checking with my ETR and see if it performs similarly to the BTR for its magnification range. It goes down to 10 yards, so I am hoping that it outperforms your 25-yard scope in this area. It stands to reason from here.

Two or three yards is close!
I know that the March 1-10x24 focuses down to 7 or 8 feet. But that scope is not for me unless it comes around somewhere at a great price.

 

[Genesis1984]

There are plenty of comparable optics that would be well suited for the same uses.

Regardless, comparable optics or not it’s no excuse for a $1500 in the flagship line to have shitty turrets and non functioning illumination. That’s garbage, whatever you have to tell yourself to sleep at night though.

Everyone says this stupid shit.. without giving said options. The one guy that did posted shit that, again, wasnt comparable. Either too heavy, or out of the price range. So.. list them or stop it

 

[Hawkguy29]

Or stop being poor and weak.. “or stop it”

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Everyone says this stupid shit.. without giving said options. The one guy that did posted shit that, again, wasnt comparable. Either too heavy, or out of the price range. So.. list them or stop it

STFU 9 post wonder.

 

[steve123]

I kinda knew better but because its the "RAZOR" line I expected more out of my LHT 4.5-22x50?!

Strong points;
Lightweight for that magnification range - why I bought it!!
Illumination is daylight bright and it works fine on mine.
Hey the best thing of all is I got it in after a 3 month wait and literally just before the crash of Liberty Optics where I purchased it!

Weak points;
RAZOR, really??? Turrets are way substandard feeling for this price point.
Elevation turret I could compare to a $300 scope. Man did I screw up because it turns out I hate (edit 6 mils per turn), bad on me. AND this locking turret needs to be centered in the spline to push it down or it snags.
Windage turret to a $150 scope, if that.
IQ is shmedium at best??

I found no particular fault in the other controls.
Reticle doesn't turn my crank but I can live with it.

But its just about the only game in town right now when considering higher magnification against weight.
Does the scope work, yes so far.
Would I buy another??, nope, not for the $1160 I paid, well maybe I would if this was a $600 scope.
C'mon Vortex, you can do better!

 

[Scopeye]

Athlon Ares ETR 3-18x50 currently on sale for $699.99 with free shipping at EuroOptic and Scopelist is the lowest I've seen them short of buying them from Expert Voice.

It's too heavy for my specific use though.

I also own the Ares ETR 3-18x50. I don't hear many people talk about this scope, and I have mentioned this on another forum. The chat seems to largely be about the Helos or the Midas-TAC. (At least you mention the Ares BTR.) I hear lots of good things about the Cronus too, but again, I don't hear much about the Ares ETR. It's almost as if the scope does not exist. Anyway, that's my (limited) experience regarding such. F7

 

[Faith7]

Athlon Ares ETR 3-18x50 currently on sale for $699.99 with free shipping at EuroOptic and Scopelist is the lowest I've seen them short of buying them from Expert Voice.

It's too heavy for my specific use though.

Greetings.
That is a great price for this scope.
I understand the weight is presently not for you.
Thanks.

 

[Scopeye]

I kinda knew better but because its the "RAZOR" line I expected more out of my LHT 4.5-22x50?!

Strong points;
Lightweight for that magnification range - why I bought it!!
Illumination is daylight bright and it works fine on mine.
Hey the best thing of all is I got it in after a 3 month wait and literally just before the crash of Liberty Optics where I purchased it!

Weak points;
RAZOR, really??? Turrets are way substandard feeling for this price point.
Elevation turret I could compare to a $300 scope. Man did I screw up because it turns out I hate 8 mil per turn, bad on me. AND this locking turret needs to be centered in the spline to push it down or it snags.
Windage turret to a $150 scope, if that.
IQ is shmedium at best??

I found no particular fault in the other controls.
Reticle doesn't turn my crank but I can live with it.

But its just about the only game in town right now when considering higher magnification against weight.
Does the scope work, yes so far.
Would I buy another??, nope, not for the $1160 I paid, well maybe I would if this was a $600 scope.
C'mon Vortex, you can do better!

Is your Razor LHT 8 MILS? I thought they had only 6 MILS or 15 MOA turrets. At least you got a decent quality Japan made scope that will be passed on to your kids and grandkids as long as Vortex keeps on keeping on. Theyeveb pay for your shipping via prepaid return shipping label if you need to use their warranty.

You like trying out scopes with ridiculously good glass? Try an Element Theos 6-36x56, it's ridiculously clear even on it's maximum 36x magnification. Very few scopes I look through give me such a WOW factor and the Theos is one of them for sure however I don't personally like their lower end Chinese stuff such as their Helix and Titan as well as their Japan made Nexus 5-20x50 is MEH chromatic aberration on 20x while the much cheaper Chinese made Athlon Midas Tac and Ares BTR Gen 2 are better IMHO regardless of their much cheaper prices.

Their Theos on the other hand, is like at least 3-5 levels above them. Really hard to imagine it's being sold by the same company. The Theos vs Nexus is already night and day. It even smokes my new Athlon Cronus BTR Gen 2 APRS6 too literally in glass and extremely smooth controls that at least won't give you any blisters. Their customer service pretty much sucks though based on my own first hand experience by not returning my calls and before spending such a high dollar amount for their top of the line scope. This most definitely isn't the end of the story though. Their grey finish seems to be not very durable almost like an Arken if you handle it too much.

 

[Holliday]

Those of you having issues with the LHT Illumination button, try this.

Put a tiny smear of dialectic grease on the edge of the battery where it interacts with the contacts. Key words are “tiny” and “dialectic grease”.


I did this to mine and the button works smooth as butter. Did it to a friends and same result.

 

[Faith7]

Is your Razor LHT 8 MILS? I thought they had only 6 MILS or 15 MOA turrets. At least you got a decent quality Japan made scope that will be passed on to your kids and grandkids as long as Vortex keeps on keeping on. Theyeveb pay for your shipping via prepaid return shipping label if you need to use their warranty.

You like trying out scopes with ridiculously good glass? Try an Element Theos 6-36x56, it's ridiculously clear even on it's maximum 36x magnification. Very few scopes I look through give me such a WOW factor and the Theos is one of them for sure however I don't personally like their lower end Chinese stuff such as their Helix and Titan as well as their Japan made Nexus 5-20x50 is MEH chromatic aberration on 20x while the much cheaper Chinese made Athlon Midas Tac and Ares BTR Gen 2 are better IMHO regardless of their much cheaper prices.

Their Theos on the other hand, is like at least 3-5 levels above them. Really hard to imagine it's being sold by the same company. The Theos vs Nexus is already night and day. It even smokes my new Athlon Cronus BTR Gen 2 APRS6 too literally in glass and extremely smooth controls that at least won't give you any blisters. Their customer service pretty much sucks though based on my own first hand experience by not returning my calls and before spending such a high dollar amount for their top of the line scope. This most definitely isn't the end of the story though. Their grey finish seems to be not very durable almost like an Arken if you handle it too much.

Would you think the Nexus II suffers from the same flaws as the Nexus I? I kind of liked the magnification range. Thanks.

 

[Scopeye]

Faith7 my reply to Steve123 applies to you too regarding the Element Theos.

TBH I bought a total of 4 of them. Element Optics doesn't seem to have good customer service though but I'm just onmy one example and wasn't sponsored by them not gotten any free or half oruced scooes fromm then maybe that's why I am not a priority to them.

I don't shill and just tell it like it is and the exterior grey finish on them seems not that durable. It's a purely cosmetic thing. Glass is holey crap good almost like Vortex Razor Gen 3 holey crap good but it's negligible unless you got them side by side you wouldn't think the Razor was a hair clearer. Turrets are 12MILs with second rotation indicator with totally tool less zero stop and all adjustment require zero tools except for whatever scope mounts if it's not QD type. Did I mention the Theos only weights 36.5oz? It's the same weight as the Athlon Ares ETR 4.5-30x56 and lighter than the Meopta Optika 6 5-30x56. I'd like to replace most of my scopes with the Element Theos just because of the weight and use the Gen 3 Razors on my bench and prone guns where weight isn't an issue.

I bought many other scopes of different brands after the 4 Theos I bought this month in fact pre Black Friday and on Black Friday and Cyber Monday sale because Element Optics wouldn't return my calls. And several members on the Hide wants first hand experience posts from me so I just bought them all just for them (and me of course). I would have probably bought 8 of them Theos instead of other brands (several Vortex Razor Gen 3s a lot more CHINESE Athlon Ares BTR Gen 2s, Cronus BTR Gen 2, Midas BTR Gen 2 HDs, Meopta, Kowa, Leupold SX5 Santiam, Nightforce and way too many others to even bother to list I could have bought a brand new 2024 Toyota Camry XSE V6 that's going to be discontinued with what I recently spent on binoculars, spotting scopes, and Riflescopes and rings). Not even including ammo. If I don't check in here as often is because I'm busy testing out newly purchased stuff obviously. If they're are junk you'd better believe I'm sending them back for refund.

 

[Faith7]

That's quite a post, Scopeye. And you are the most prolific scope buyer I have come across. (Scopeye: I get it now.)
I wish I was your neighbor! (Only half-kidding)

To the question you asked Steve, if it is relevant, my LHT 3-15x50 has 6 mils of turret travel per turn, not 8.

I already feel a bit badly for moving this post (I apologize, OP), but what are your very favorite scopes? You mention the glass on the new Element line, and the Razor III (which Glassaholic also somewhat raved about), but what is the best glass you have seen, if you don't mind? I am thinking that the TT, ZCO, and some of the SB scopes are tops--as well as some of the March models, but certainly not all.

Thank you. F7

 

[Scopeye]

Would you think the Nexus II suffers from the same flaws as the Nexus I? I kind of liked the magnification range. Thanks.

Have not yet bought a Nexus Gen 2 4-25x50 to try out yet because Element Optics wouldn't return my calls for 2-3 weeks now. I would probably already have 4 of them by now if the first one was good. But this I do not know as of yet. I don't think it's worth spending $1999.99 for it when you can get a Nightforce NX8 4-32x50 for around $1700 DEMO even considering the Nexus Gen 2 is around the same price on sale. Remember just one of their insignificant customers who paid 100% for all 4 Theos scopes with his own money not sponsored by them who still waits for a return phone call from their higher up person running the show there.

The Nexus 2 Only has 100 MOA total elevation travel vs 90MOA with the Nightforce and weighs 30.7oz vs 29oz Nexus 2. I bet the $565.49 Walmart online special Athlon Ares BTR Gen 2 4.5-27x50 with 85MOA and 27.3oz would really give it good run for it's $1999.99 price. I just bought more of the Ares BTR Gen 2 before they quit their $565.49 sale and go back up to $869.99. Not even EuroOptic and Scopelist Black Friday Cyber Monday $695.99 sale prices can touch this Walmart $595.49 sale price. I would not recommend buying them for $869.99 that everywhere else sells them for. Max I'd recommend buying them for is $700 or less because they're still made in China.

I honestly have to say I personally was not impressed with the noticeable chromatic aberration in their Nexus 5-20x50. Now think about using the same scope tube dimensions and boost it to 4-25x50 and add almost 3 ounces. I don't know if they improved on the glass because nobody is wanting to return any of my messages over at Element Optics. Otherwise I'd already have bought one to try out by now. Think about what I'm going through if you really prize customer service.

I usually buy multiples of my preferred and favorite scopes so I have at least a spare in case any of them ever fails.

Most scopes from any single brand I personally own are in fact BUSHNELLS and I used to buy a lot of them in multuples of at least 4 to 5 of each back then when I was still actively buying Bushnell brand before I quit and switched to Athlon specifically due to warranty and customer service concerns. I oy have 4 Element Optics Theos and it's miniscule negligible amount compared to how many Bushnells I own. Next most is Weaver, Sightron then Athlon then Leupold and SWFA and Vortex while the rest of the other brands I own have less than 10 of them such as March.

$1999.99 MSRP for a 30mm 4-25x50 is kind of insane IMHO when you can get an Athlon Cronus BTR Gen 2 which is no doubt in my mind a better scope for the exact MSRP and around $1200 when you get over the phone deals from certain dealers and the Nightforce NX8 4-32x50 would actually be my first choice. Buy DEMO Models of Nightforce die to their limited 5 year warranty on their electronics at least you have a receipt that starts ticking down their 5 year warranty the moment you buy it and when you buy used they go on serial number based iyn manufacture date if you don't have a receipt and didn't get it from the original owner.

 

[Scopeye]

It

Greetings.
That is a great price for this scope.
I understand the weight is presently not for you.
Thanks.

My best guess is it's the best quality 3-18x50 scope manufactured in China that money can buy that has no equal in regards to sheer true to life ultra high definition glass quality and historically spot on tracking reliability.

I actually prefer higher magnification scopes and deal with their weight. Instead of buying the Athlon Ares ETR 3-18x50, I opted to buy the Meopta Optika 6 3-18x specifically for the super easy to see horse shoe MRAD1 (DLO/Koshkin) reticle on 3x where .ost other brands of FFP reticles tend to disappear and need to start at least 8x to actually see the reticle and I would seriously think that the ETR has at least equal to if not better glass. It's also the sheer cost factor that made my decision easier because it wasn't $699.99 at the time I bought the Optika 6 which I paid a cheaper for. One things for sure yours is clearer and lighter than the Titan version and I bet you won't be getting any of the stiff turret syndrome after a years worth of clicking either.

I also determine my purchases based on multiple "honest dealer" opinions who already know what I like and expect who swayed me away from certain models based on cost factor and close alternatives from other brands.

What I find most irritating is certain brands/specific models/types/styles of FFP reticles are nearly impossible to see on their lowest magnification.

I tend to buy scopes with at least 4.5x starting magnification so their reticle is easier to see at it's lowest magnification or prefer SFP for lower magnification scopes or a FFP hopefully some day with a flaming bright red dot that can easily be seen during the daylight hours.

 

[Scopeye]

That's quite a post, Scopeye. And you are the most prolific scope buyer I have come across. (Scopeye: I get it now.)
I wish I was your neighbor! (Only half-kidding)

To the question you asked Steve, if it is relevant, my LHT 3-15x50 has 6 mils of turret travel per turn, not 8.

I already feel a bit badly for moving this post (I apologize, OP), but what are your very favorite scopes? You mention the glass on the new Element line, and the Razor III (which Glassaholic also somewhat raved about), but what is the best glass you have seen, if you don't mind? I am thinking that the TT, ZCO, and some of the SB scopes are tops--as well as some of the March models, but certainly not all.

Thank you. F7

I'm personally done with S&B and looked at TT and ZCO and think ZCO is better to my own eyes but would rather spend that kind of money on a March instead or more than likely couple more Theos or Razor Gen 3s. Leaning more towards the Vortex die to it's superior customer service and no questions asked warranty even if you break it. They even send you a free shipping return label too if you need to use their warranty.

My favorite scopes are currently the Theos and Razor Gen 3 then Cronus BTR Gen 2 APRS6 then Ares BTR Gen 2 4.5-27x50. it's been a while since I bought a March or Kahles or Nightforce so I wouldn't classify then as being favorites otherwise I wouldn't have just bought so many quantities of especially of the Ares BTR Gen 2s and Theos and Razor Gen 3s. Black Friday Cyber Monday only comes around once a year so why not?

I have a couple NF NX8 4-32x50 F1 MIL-XT DEMOS currently negotiating quantity prices with a dealer for after I got wind Nightforce doesn't charge their customers for repairs past their 5 year electronics warranty and at least there's gonna be a proof of purchase dated receipt instead of buying them USED. This one is up there as part of my Favorites. I'd like to compare it to a Nexus Gen 2 but it actually wouldn't be a fair comparison. Probably closer to the Athlon Ares BTR Gen 2 instead is my best guess.

 

[steve123]

Is your Razor LHT 8 MILS? I thought they had only 6 MILS or 15 MOA turrets.

Ooops, bad memory, yes 6 mils per turn. 10 mils per turn is something I want to stick with from now on.

 

[steve123]

I'm personally done with S&B and looked at TT and ZCO and think ZCO is better to my own eyes but would rather spend that kind of money on a March instead or more than likely couple more Theos or Razor Gen 3s. Leaning more towards the Vortex die to it's superior customer service and no questions asked warranty even if you break it. They even send you a free shipping return label too if you need to use their warranty.

My favorite scopes are currently the Theos and Razor Gen 3 then Cronus BTR Gen 2 APRS6 then Ares BTR Gen 2 4.5-27x50. it's been a while since I bought a March or Kahles or Nightforce so I wouldn't classify then as being favorites otherwise I wouldn't have just bought so many quantities of especially of the Ares BTR Gen 2s and Theos and Razor Gen 3s. Black Friday Cyber Monday only comes around once a year so why not?

I have a couple NF NX8 4-32x50 F1 MIL-XT DEMOS currently negotiating quantity prices with a dealer for after I got wind Nightforce doesn't charge their customers for repairs past their 5 year electronics warranty and at least there's gonna be a proof of purchase dated receipt instead of buying them USED. This one is up there as part of my Favorites. I'd like to compare it to a Nexus Gen 2 but it actually wouldn't be a fair comparison. Probably closer to the Athlon Ares BTR Gen 2 instead is my best guess.

Plan a trip to come visit me so I can check out all those different scopes!

 

[Scopeye]

Plan a trip to come visit me so I can check out all those different scopes!

Literally need a separate cargo plane just to transport all of them and my other scopes I already have if I remove all of them from their rifles. Not joking.

 

[steve123]

Literally need a separate cargo plane just to transport all of them and my other scopes I already have if I remove all of them from their rifles. Not joking.

Sounds like it.

 

[VandelayIndustries]

Can vortex just drop a new FFP AMG 2.5-15x50 illuminated with a donut reticle… it seems like no one can quite get it right. There’s a void there that needs to be filled.

 

[Faith7]

Plan a trip to come visit me so I can check out all those different scopes!

I know it, right!