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Rifle Scopes Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 EBR-2C

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KingE

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Minuteman
Feb 23, 2013
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anyone know when Vortex will be releasing the Viper PST 6-24x50 with the MRAD EBR-2C recticle? I have one on order but the expected date passed weeks ago and have not been able to get an update.
 
I read on another forum (for what that's worth) early to mid August. I remember because that is about when I'll have enough money saved up to afford one :)
 
I know the pst series well, but have been getting intrigued with the pst with ebr2c reticle, I've been told a few weeks too which coincides with allenj
 
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I ordered one in March. August sounds about right. Vortex originally said May/June, but I figured that was optimistic.
 
Midway USA had some for sale yesterday I was too slow to pull the trigger and missed out. Looks like they're starting to come in.
 
Dang. I just got ANOTHER "still backordered" notice from B&H. 5 months is a long time to wait...
 
Finally got mine 5 months after I ordered it. It's late tonight so I'll have to look more closely in the morning, but a couple of things I noticed:
1) it has a nice large black spot in it. Guess it's gonna go back to vortex. I'm sure they'll take good care of me. Not going to settle for the old whack it on a phone book routine.
2) didn't realize how much the reticle zooms in on full power. Is it a common thing for FFP reticles to not be usable at full magnification? If I have it at 24x, the reticle holdover that is visible is barely 6 mil, which is about half what I need to get to 1000 yards. I kind of assumed that the subtension diagram on vortex's website was at full magnification. It's not. I guess if I want to shoot that far, my choices are dial for elevation (which I do anyway most the time) or zoom out to 12x (which I think inadequate for that distance). Not the end of the world, but a little disappointing.
3) otherwise it looks beautiful. Every bit as nice as the 2.5-10x32 I got last week!
 
I had the black spot issue on my 4-16 PST. They appeared after having the scope for about a year. They would reorganize after every shot. Sent to Vortex for service and had it back in less than a week.

I really wish Vortex would make the 2C reticle available on the 4-16 also!
 
Matno said:
Finally got mine 5 months after I ordered it. It's late tonight so I'll have to look more closely in the morning, but a couple of things I noticed:
1) it has a nice large black spot in it. Guess it's gonna go back to vortex. I'm sure they'll take good care of me. Not going to settle for the old whack it on a phone book routine.
2) didn't realize how much the reticle zooms in on full power. Is it a common thing for FFP reticles to not be usable at full magnification? If I have it at 24x, the reticle holdover that is visible is barely 6 mil, which is about half what I need to get to 1000 yards. I kind of assumed that the subtension diagram on vortex's website was at full magnification. It's not. I guess if I want to shoot that far, my choices are dial for elevation (which I do anyway most the time) or zoom out to 12x (which I think inadequate for that distance). Not the end of the world, but a little disappointing.
3) otherwise it looks beautiful. Every bit as nice as the 2.5-10x32 I got last week!
Click to expand...

All FFP's have less visable holdover on max zoom's. That's what FFP does.
 
Matno said:
2) didn't realize how much the reticle zooms in on full power. Is it a common thing for FFP reticles to not be usable at full magnification? If I have it at 24x, the reticle holdover that is visible is barely 6 mil, which is about half what I need to get to 1000 yards. I kind of assumed that the subtension diagram on vortex's website was at full magnification. It's not. I guess if I want to shoot that far, my choices are dial for elevation (which I do anyway most the time) or zoom out to 12x (which I think inadequate for that distance). Not the end of the world, but a little disappointing.


It has nothing to do with FFP.
Every 24x50mm scope, be it SFP, FFP, or fixed mag, has a similarly limited FOV at 24x.
The same reticle in an SFP or fixed mag scope at 24x would be limited by a similar FOV and would thus display the same amount of subtensions, which are angular measurements.
Click to expand...
 
Matno said:
...didn't realize how much the reticle zooms in on full power. Is it a common thing for FFP reticles to not be usable at full magnification?
Click to expand...

It's a weird trade-off with FFP scopes (and their reticles, really) When you have something that has a REALLY large magnification range, do you make the reticle easily usable and really precise at max power? This makes the reticle so thin that it can't be used at minimum power.... The opposite is also an issue.

I've used 10x scopes out to 800-1k for a while.
 
Thebelly said:
It's a weird trade-off with FFP scopes (and their reticles, really) When you have something that has a REALLY large magnification range, do you make the reticle easily usable and really precise at max power? This makes the reticle so thin that it can't be used at minimum power.... The opposite is also an issue.

I've used 10x scopes out to 800-1k for a while.
Click to expand...

It has NOTHING to do with which focal plane the reticle is located on. Nothing.
 
delixe said:
It has NOTHING to do with which focal plane the reticle is located on. Nothing.
Click to expand...

In my FFP optics, the reticle changes size to ensure that I can mil at any magnification. In my SFP optics, this doesn't happen.

In short, the whole of the reticle appears to zoom in and out when the magnification does the same.

Do yours do something different?
 
Thebelly said:
In my FFP optics, the reticle changes size to ensure that I can mil at any magnification. In my SFP optics, this doesn't happen.

In short, the whole of the reticle appears to zoom in and out when the magnification does the same.

Do yours do something different?
Click to expand...

Well, yes, my FFP scopes do THAT. I don't own any SFP high power scopes.

My point is that if you have 2 Viper PST 6-24x50 scopes with the same reticle, one in SFP and the other in FFP, If you crank both to max magnification, the reticles in both subtend properly (the only mag at which the SFP unit does, of course) and since they have similar FOVs the same amount of reticle is visible in both. One may have slightly more FOV and a proportionally larger amount of the reticle will be visible in that one, but I doubt there's much difference. Yes I could look it up but I don't need to for the sake of the point I'm trying to make. FOV is an angular value (this wide of a view at distance x) and so is mil or MOA. In a scope that shows 6.5 mils in every direction, the FOV (expressed in angle) is 13 mils or 44.6 MOA or a little less than .75 degrees. Trigging that out, FOV at 100 yards is 4 feet.

Generally speaking (typing?) no scope will have much more than 16 mils total of FOV at 24 power regardless of the location of the reticle.

You alluded to the difficulty in designing a reticle that is useful at magnification extremes, and that's very true. I've read a few negative comments (for instance) about March's FML-1 reticle in their FFP scopes with 8x erectors. I had a 3-24x42 FFP and in my experience the reticle was about as good as they could have made it given that it needed to work at 3x and 24x. It was a bit thick at 24x but still visible at 3x and I can't see what they could have done to make it better except a small floating center dot for precision work at higher mags.
 
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delixe said:
You alluded to the difficulty in designing a reticle that is useful at magnification extremes, and that's very true. I've read a few negative comments (for instance) about March's FML-1 reticle in their FFP scopes with 8x erectors. I had a 3-24x42 FFP and in my experience the reticle was about as good as they could have made it given that it needed to work at 3x and 24x. It was a bit thick at 24x but still visible at 3x and I can't see what they could have done to make it better except a small floating center dot for precision work at higher mags.
Click to expand...

This is exactly the point I was trying to make. I just didn't know how to speak (type?) so folks can understand me the first time. I still don't know how to explain most things in way that anyone else can understand me.
 
Thebelly said:
This is exactly the point I was trying to make. I just didn't know how to speak (type?) so folks can understand me the first time. I still don't know how to explain most things in way that anyone else can understand me.
Click to expand...

I talk too much so I have a lot of experience.
 
I actually think March has one of the best FFP reticles. I don't understand why more companies don't use a tapered reticle. That way it looks relatively the same thickness at all magnifications.
 
delixe said:
Well, yes, my FFP scopes do THAT. I don't own any SFP high power scopes.

My point is that if you have 2 Viper PST 6-24x50 scopes with the same reticle, one in SFP and the other in FFP, If you crank both to max magnification, the reticles in both subtend properly (the only mag at which the SFP unit does, of course) and since they have similar FOVs the same amount of reticle is visible in both. One may have slightly more FOV and a proportionally larger amount of the reticle will be visible in that one, but I doubt there's much difference. Yes I could look it up but I don't need to for the sake of the point I'm trying to make. FOV is an angular value (this wide of a view at distance x) and so is mil or MOA. In a scope that shows 6.5 mils in every direction, the FOV (expressed in angle) is 13 mils or 44.6 MOA or a little less than .75 degrees. Trigging that out, FOV at 100 yards is 4 feet.

Generally speaking (typing?) no scope will have much more than 16 mils total of FOV at 24 power regardless of the location of the reticle.

You alluded to the difficulty in designing a reticle that is useful at magnification extremes, and that's very true. I've read a few negative comments (for instance) about March's FML-1 reticle in their FFP scopes with 8x erectors. I had a 3-24x42 FFP and in my experience the reticle was about as good as they could have made it given that it needed to work at 3x and 24x. It was a bit thick at 24x but still visible at 3x and I can't see what they could have done to make it better except a small floating center dot for precision work at higher mags.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure the sfp 6-24s are true at 16. I'll check after lunch.
 
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