Rifle Scopes Vortex Viper PST

bracyb

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OK.....As you may know from my earlier post, I am a newbee when it comes to long range shooting. I just bought a FN PBR 300 wsm. It should be here on Friday. So now its time for some glass. At first, I was thinking that I was going to get nothing other than a Night Force. Night Force is all I read about up here. Night Force, Night Force, Night Force. Well, with my budget, I may need to go cheaper. To be honest, I really have no clue what I want in a scope. Size, reticle, etc. All I know is, I want something for hunting and long range shooting. Something that I can see well in low visibility. After realizing that I could not really afford a Night Force, I kinda of narrowed it down to a Zeiss Conquest or a Vortex Viper PST. I am leaning to the PST because of there great warranty and the illuminated reticle. I would guess that the 4-16x50 would be the size I would get. What is "FFP" I could get one with FFP or one without. Its like $200 more for the FFP. Is that something I need??? The more I think about it, the harder it gets. Hell, if I am going to pay $900 for a scope, might as well pay another $600 and get a Night Force. Any help is highly appreciated!!!!
Thanks so much
 

z71rat

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Re: Vortex Viper PST

FFP means, First Focal Plane. That means, the reticle stays at the correct subtention to range at all magnifications. SFP means, Second Focal Plane. That means, the reticle remains the same size, so you can range at different magnifications, but will have to do some math.

I will have to say that I have owned a Nightforce, and I am actually more pleased with my Vortex 6-24x50 PST SFP scope. My Nightforce was SFP as well, but I prefer my Vortex. Yes, the $900 difference means alot to me, and I am glad I went with the Vortex.

DK
 

z71rat

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Re: Vortex Viper PST

Side by side comparison, the 6-24 has MUCH better clarity than the 4-16. For the difference in price, I would HIGHLY recommend going with the 6-24. The other features are about the same, but the higher magnification is nice in case you might need it.

DK
 

ShootsBlanks

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Re: Vortex Viper PST

FFP First Focal Plane or Front Focal Plane means the reticle hash marks will be correct at all magnifications. SFP, the hash marks are only correct at maximum magnification, assuming that is how you zeroed the scope.

I have PSTs in 4-16 on my 20" AR and 6-24 on my .308. They are both FFP.

I believe that scope is the best value out there. I bought them for the reticle.

Most, if not all NightForce are SFP. I'm sure someone will tell me if I am wrong.

SFP the reticle stays the same size at all powers while the target changes size.

FFP both the reticle and the target change as you zoom.
 

abilliott

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Re: Vortex Viper PST

questions like this are asked every week so don't be surprised when you get very little feedback or some smart ass responses, btw I do not intend to come off offensive when I say this. Use the search to do a little research because there is way to much info on here and its very hard to compare the two, in fact comparison is almost not fair in my opinion.

Long of the short is:
FFP = First Focal Plane (this is mandatory ONLY if you intend to range targets using the subtentions in the reticle at multiple powers without having to do conversions)

Nightforce will be much clearer IMO but will cost substantially more.

It seems that people report that the 6-24 is actually clearer than the 4-16 (I personally can not confirm this I have only used the 4-16 and I wasn't impressed IF I repeat IF the intention is to replace a nightforce) otherwise its a great scope for the money.

If you can save up for a NF then do it, you'll probably never replace a nightforce, if money is an issue then get the vortex and quite honestly you'll probably never replace it either......but...... don't get behind your buddies NF, S&B USO ect. or you'll find yourself wanting one! :)

Just my opinion!
 

abilliott

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Re: Vortex Viper PST

There are FFP nightforces but I believe they are only offered in the 5-15 power and they are higher just like the vortex's are higher
 

fdkay

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    Power wise, the 4-16 would suit you just fine, more so if you intend on hunting.

    Check the Weaver Tactical FFP 3-15x.
    750 bucks, made in Japan, excellent glass and excellent design
     

    bracyb

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    In the long run....is it worth it to get the FFP? I am sure it will not be an issue at first, but I hate not to pay an extra $200 if it's one of those things (when I get more experienced) that I would have wished that I bought?
     

    abilliott

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    are you going to range your targets at different powers each time. a Second focal plane will allow you to do the same thing, but it has to be on a specified power do range every time. Do a quick google search of first focal plane vs second if you are still slightly confused by it.

    I personally wouldn't pay the extra. I don't power down my scope much.

    You could always justify a second focal plane and save them money and put it towards a quality range finder. Thats would I would do.

    Again...... my opinions
     

    greentimber

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    I have used just about everything on the market (the Steiner being the exception) and am fortunate to be able to own any scope I wish to own. I wouldn't buy a Nightforce if they were the same price as the PST. For the price point, go with a PST or a Bushnell Elite. And yes, get the FFP. A long-range shooter buying a second-focal-plane scope is like buying a car with no tires. Yes, you can limp down the shoulder on the rims, but why the hell would you?
     

    abilliott

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    depends on what kind of long range shooting your doing, known distance or unknown distance. A FFP scope is kinda weird to look through if you never have before, not to say its bad, just different that what some are used to.

    If you are not going to be adequately using a FFP scope and money is already an issue then don't get one. Yes you can run mud tires on your camry cause it will help you when you get off road, but your driving on the highway so why the hell would you?
     

    predatornut

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    I am by no means an expert, but here's my opinion. Get the FFP. I got my first FFP scope about a year ago and I have noted any problems getting used to it. Even if you don't range with the reticles the hash marks are on at any magnification, which makes it easy to use as a bdc type reticles. So lets say you are zeroed at 100 yards and your first mark is on at 200 yards it is always right, no need to make sure you are at x power. The only downside that I have found is that the reticle gets kinda small at low powers, but not so bad that it is unusable.
     

    Thor2j

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    I have both a NF and the vortex pst 6-24. The glass on the NF is maybe 10% better for twice the price. Save your extra money for something else and buy the Vortex FFP.
     

    Pbailey

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    I would go with the Vortex. The warranty is impossible to beat, and the quality of the glass is amazing. I currently have binos, and scopes and my weapons will continue to wear vortex.
     

    longranger300

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    i bought my first FFP scope last year not knowing what to expect and have fallen in love with it, not for the ranging distances aspect of it but more for having a consistent mildot at all powers. FFP eliminates the need to be on a set power to effectively use the mildot system or BDC or whatever you are using, especially for hunting applications where you may not have time to adjust the scope. reluctantly i'll admit that i missed a deer 3 years ago because i used a BDC radical on the wrong power so i ended up holding for about 500yds instead of 350yds.
    with that said i have a viper PST 6-24 FFP ordered and cant wait to install it onto my long range rifle that i use for hunting mountain to mountain and target. Nightforce is an extremely rugged and clear scope and i cant say anything bad about it except the price. the viper doesnt have the optical quality of the nightforce but the RAZOR HD is pretty close for a little lower price if you consider the features that you are getting. but either way great scope choice
     

    slowkota

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bwbooner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I kinda of narrowed it down to a Zeiss Conquest or a Vortex Viper PST.</div></div>

    Last trip to the range, I was able to do a side-by-side with my Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x50 and a guys Viper PST 4-16x50FFP... I couldn't believe how much better the glass was on mine compared to the PST, and they're roughly the same price. The only thing that sux with the conquest is reticle choices, and maybe the available elevation depending on the distances you plan to shoot (nothing that a canted base can't take care of though)
     

    LSOSGT1109

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MisterHall</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you could buy mil/mil ffp pst's for $684 how many would you buy?</div></div>

    As many as I could get my hands on. I'd keep what I want and sell the rest at a good profit!
     

    LibertyOptics

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MisterHall</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you could buy mil/mil ffp pst's for $684 how many would you buy? </div></div>

    Sure, I'll buy them, you got 'em in stock??
     

    LibertyOptics

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MisterHall</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not a dealer nor vendor. </div></div>

    No, but maybe a troublemaker....
     

    AHall

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    Well silly question I suppose. Great optic so far. Maybe since your feathers are so ruffled it means I should pick up another one.
     

    LibertyOptics

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    Silly? No. Stupid? Yes.

    My feathers aren't ruffled...I've got a long line of people waiting to buy this scope and you asked the question and I gave you an answer. Seriously..you... 20 posts, joined this site a year ago, WhoTF are you.

    I have a need, either put up or shut up.

    Grab all you can at that price, dude. You're the Guitar Hero.
     

    AHall

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Silly? No. Stupid? Yes.

    My feathers aren't ruffled...I've got a long line of people waiting to buy this scope and you asked the question and I gave you an answer. Seriously..you... 20 posts, joined this site a year ago, WhoTF are you.

    I have a need, either put up or shut up.

    Grab all you can at that price, dude. You're the Guitar Hero. </div></div>


    No need to be a prick. I'm being less of a troll than you at the moment. I simply come hear the gather information and learn. Not unlike many others.

    You on the other hand seem to be violating forum policy and attacking a new member. And i'm unsure of what your guitar hero comment means, care to elaborate?
     

    AHall

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    Furthermore, my question was totally valid. I was expecting one of two answers. Buy all you can(meaning that is a great price) or that is an average vendor discounted price and isn't an uncommon price point.
     

    LibertyOptics

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    Oh yeah, I'm a major forum policy violator. Nothing but trouble. Please report me to the nearest mod so I can get banned.

    The answers you listed above are not the responses you expected. The price you mention is not even in the realm of sanity for any authorized Vortex dealer. FFP PSTs are hard to come by and with MAP prices of $949 for the 6-24 and $899 for the 4-16 your question is designed to make waves...you are a liar and a loser.... or are connected to a depraved dealer whose on his last leg...either way, I'm standing firm, Spanky..calling you out...bring it.

     

    AHall

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh yeah, I'm a major forum policy violator. Nothing but trouble. Please report me to the nearest mod so I can get banned.

    The answers you listed above are not the responses you expected. The price you mention is not even in the realm of sanity for any authorized Vortex dealer. FFP PSTs are hard to come by and with MAP prices of $949 for the 6-24 and $899 for the 4-16 your question is designed to make waves...you are a liar and a loser.... or are connected to a depraved dealer whose on his last leg...either way, I'm standing firm, Spanky..calling you out...bring it.

    </div></div>

    I'm not throwing the book at you. Although you clearly tried to <span style="font-weight: bold">bait</span> me in your first response. Then proceeded to be rude to me. You do not know me. Do not insult my intelligence by trying to belittle me with only having a short time on the forum and few posts. I would rather have someone rarely post and read all that is on this forum than spam it with a million noob questions that irritate the locals.

    Yes the answers I posted are indeed expected; one or the other.

    No, I did not realize the posted internet prices were the lowest people could buy for. I assumed vendors and dealers like yourself could not sleep at night knowing you charge a 28% markup($266) on a scope at this price.

    Please tell me how i'm such a "liar and loser".
     

    LSOSGT1109

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MisterHall</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Silly? No. Stupid? Yes.

    My feathers aren't ruffled...I've got a long line of people waiting to buy this scope and you asked the question and I gave you an answer. Seriously..you... 20 posts, joined this site a year ago, WhoTF are you.

    I have a need, either put up or shut up.

    Grab all you can at that price, dude. You're the Guitar Hero. </div></div>


    No need to be a prick. I'm being less of a troll than you at the moment. I simply come hear the gather information and learn. Not unlike many others.

    You on the other hand seem to be violating forum policy and attacking a new member. And i'm unsure of what your guitar hero comment means, care to elaborate?</div></div>

    You're not gonna get very far on here by attacking Scott. He is one of the most respected vendors/members of this forum and for good reason! If I were you and wanted to stay a member of this forum, I would apologize for my ignorance and kindly bow out at this point.
     

    AHall

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSP446</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MisterHall</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Silly? No. Stupid? Yes.

    My feathers aren't ruffled...I've got a long line of people waiting to buy this scope and you asked the question and I gave you an answer. Seriously..you... 20 posts, joined this site a year ago, WhoTF are you.

    I have a need, either put up or shut up.

    Grab all you can at that price, dude. You're the Guitar Hero. </div></div>


    No need to be a prick. I'm being less of a troll than you at the moment. I simply come hear the gather information and learn. Not unlike many others.

    You on the other hand seem to be violating forum policy and attacking a new member. And i'm unsure of what your guitar hero comment means, care to elaborate?</div></div>

    You're not gonna get very far on here by attacking Scott. He is one of the most respected vendors/members of this forum and for good reason! If I were you and wanted to stay a member of this forum, I would apologize for my ignorance and kindly bow out at this point. </div></div>

    Not once did I ever disrespect him. I understand it's a business and trolls flood the forums. His rude behavior caused this. I had always looked at him to be a nice guy and excellent, reliable vendor, but after this conversation it seems he has shown his true colors.
     

    LibertyOptics

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MisterHall</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oh yeah, I'm a major forum policy violator. Nothing but trouble. Please report me to the nearest mod so I can get banned.

    The answers you listed above are not the responses you expected. The price you mention is not even in the realm of sanity for any authorized Vortex dealer. FFP PSTs are hard to come by and with MAP prices of $949 for the 6-24 and $899 for the 4-16 your question is designed to make waves...you are a liar and a loser.... or are connected to a depraved dealer whose on his last leg...either way, I'm standing firm, Spanky..calling you out...bring it.

    </div></div>

    I assumed vendors and dealers like yourself could not sleep at night knowing you charge a 28% markup($266) on a scope at this price.
    </div></div>



    You know nothing of what I charge....I sleep well at night knowing I do the best for my customers while still feeding my family and paying the bills...you posed the question, I HAVE A NEED FOR SCOPES, and all you've done is make an ass of yourself..if you claim to know what the markup is on these scopes then you know throwing that purchase price number out there like you did would stir the pot...therein lies the liar label and the fact you have the credentials of a troll earns you the "loser" label....

    Seriously, put down the 40 ounce and go to bed....
     

    AHall

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    There is no point in arguing with a beloved vendor on here.

    "The answers you listed above are not the responses you expected. The price you mention is not even in the realm of sanity for any authorized Vortex dealer.<span style="color: #CC0000"> FFP PSTs are hard to come by and with MAP prices of $949 for the 6-24 and $899 for the 4-16</span> your question is designed to make waves...you are a liar and a loser.... or are connected to a depraved dealer whose on his last leg...either way, I'm standing firm, Spanky..calling you out...bring it. "

    You're talking in circles now. You listed a price point where an authorized dealer would sell scopes. I have no idea what the dealer pricing is, but I assume it is cheaper than I can get it for. Continue the insults. It screams professionalism to potential buyers.
     

    LSOSGT1109

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    If you have no idea what the dealer pricing is then how do you know that Scott and other dealers are marking them up "28 percent or $266"? The owner of the local outdoor shop here is a Vortex dealer and I know what his cost is on these scopes, it's not even close to what you quoted. I'm not gonna post on here what his cost is but I will say that he sure ain't getting rich off of them!
     

    LibertyOptics

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    Thanks KSP446.....I appreciate the backup, but I got this. Just holding this guy accountable.

    "MisterHall" I <span style="text-decoration: underline">am</span> a nice guy and an excellent, reliable vendor...thanks.... but I don't know you..and who are you? What is your purpose with a thread question like that?? Your post was designed to elicit a response, plain and simple. Step out of the shadows and ID yourself. Anybody can see through your moral indignation/act.

    I'm not buying it.

    Not gonna make a federal case out of this, but you bear watching for sure.

    My apologies to the OP...I was enjoying this thread until "MisterHall's" post...

    I'm done for the night. Hope you are too....

    Scott
     

    LibertyOptics

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSP446</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have no idea what the dealer pricing is then how do you know that Scott and other dealers are marking them up "28 percent or $266"? The owner of the local outdoor shop here is a Vortex dealer and I know what his cost is on these scopes, it's not even close to what you quoted. I'm not gonna post on here what his cost is but I will say that he sure ain't getting rich off of them! </div></div>

    +1 thanks Bro
     

    AHall

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    While my intention wasn't to derail this thread and come off as a troll stirring the pot it was a simple question. I honestly had no ulterior motives and had no intention of undermining credible sponsors.

    I have no reason to "step out of the shadows" as I am only a peon in the grand scheme of things as far as the hide is concerned. I will continue reading and hope to one day know 1% as much as fellow members. I just do not take well to insults and attacks. I showed respect in every post and didn't receive a hint of it in return.

    One thing that was learned is if you can make a purchase for less than MAP pricing, you're probably getting a good deal and it's best to stay hushed up to not upset the vendors. If there is any further concern or discussion please feel free to PM me whether it be a mod, site sponsor, or member.
     

    AHall

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    Re: Vortex Viper PST

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSP446</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have no idea what the dealer pricing is then how do you know that Scott and other dealers are marking them up "28 percent or $266"? The owner of the local outdoor shop here is a Vortex dealer and I know what his cost is on these scopes, it's not even close to what you quoted. I'm not gonna post on here what his cost is but I will say that he sure ain't getting rich off of them! </div></div>

    Map price(950) - Obtainable cost(684) = Estimated cost difference.

    All figures listed in this thread.