I'm waiting on Boretech. I've been corresponding with them regarding the vudoo cleaning rod and seems like they are close to a final product. What you see below is from late last week.That I don’t know, I have the 17/20 rod from Montana Xtreme.
Littlepod, are these groups at 50 yards? Thanks!Nice! Yeh the ES is large though... that would've been a .1" per fps at 200 yards, so you're looking at > 3" group. My friend has been shooting in the 2.5" groups, so I guess an ES of around 25.
This is the lot# I did when I tested with my friend's RPRR and my Tikka IBI. Vudoo comes I think end of this week or early next week! I have 1200 rounds left of this lot to play with the Vudoo.
View attachment 7262810
They're at 100 yards.Littlepod, are these groups at 50 yards? Thanks!
Took out the MagnetoSpeed, since I own one , to see what kind of speeds and SD/ES I'm getting w/ Center X. I shot four series. One 8 round, three 10 round, and one 70 round. The first two shots on series one were not registered due to sensitivity set too low. I ended up having to set it to 11, and why it's better than a Lab Radar which only goes to 10, and it didn't miss a shot since.
18" barrel. 72* F, 25.0in HG, 26% Humidity
Series 1. 8 shots.
Min 1073, Max 1108
Avg. 1090, SD 12.1 ES 35
Series 2. 10 shots.
Min 1067, Max 1106
Avg. 1081, SD 11.8, ES 39
Series 3. 10 shots.
Min 1069, Max 1115
Avg. 1087, SD 13.9, ES 46
Series 4. 70 shots.
Min 1073, Max 1115
Avg. 1090, SD 8.9, ES 42
Bullets and turrets agree w/ speeds registered. 1.8 MIL at 100 yards w/ 25 yard zero.
Running on the ragged edge of supersonic. Little disappointed in ES. Easily 1.5" vertical dispersion possible at 100 yards due to spread.
Are the ES consistent with other's are getting w/ Center X?
if you are having to set the sensitivity that high it suggests that the Magnetospeed is mounted with the forearm offset too far from in line with the bore. this will also give you higher ES readings and less reliable/accurate velocity readings....
rick137, based on what I was told while testing at the Lapua facility in Ohio, Lapua makes a batch, then does all testing after the batch is made, and grades the ammo to the X-Act, Midas+ and LCX grades. Actual rifle shooting is part of the testing as well to help determine that the ammo should be assigned.The first two numbers in the Center X lot specification refer to the second and third digits in the nominal m/s velocity. The first digit is always understood to be 3 so the nominal velocity of a lot with 27 is 327 m/s =1073 ft/s. For a lot with 29 it is 329 m/s = 1079 ft/s.
I have a brick whose lot number is 26. Does Lapua manufacture a lot, then do testing to determine the nominal velocity?
It was at 2, its standard setting, and would not pick up. I changed to 5 and still no luck. At that point I just went to 11 as I was a bit impatient. I will play with the sensitivity and mounting location but it's pretty close to the bullet. You can kinda see it in the last picture I posted a few posts back.
I shot two lot numbers of cx, 15 shots each and got es of 33 & 37, sd’s were 8.4 & 10.1 at 1087 & 1093 fps with magneto speed.Took out the MagnetoSpeed, since I own one , to see what kind of speeds and SD/ES I'm getting w/ Center X. I shot four series. One 8 round, three 10 round, and one 70 round. The first two shots on series one were not registered due to sensitivity set too low. I ended up having to set it to 11, and why it's better than a Lab Radar which only goes to 10, and it didn't miss a shot since.
18" barrel. 72* F, 25.0in HG, 26% Humidity
Series 1. 8 shots.
Min 1073, Max 1108
Avg. 1090, SD 12.1 ES 35
Series 2. 10 shots.
Min 1067, Max 1106
Avg. 1081, SD 11.8, ES 39
Series 3. 10 shots.
Min 1069, Max 1115
Avg. 1087, SD 13.9, ES 46
Series 4. 70 shots.
Min 1073, Max 1115
Avg. 1090, SD 8.9, ES 42
Bullets and turrets agree w/ speeds registered. 1.8 MIL at 100 yards w/ 25 yard zero.
Running on the ragged edge of supersonic. Little disappointed in ES. Easily 1.5" vertical dispersion possible at 100 yards due to spread.
Are the ES consistent with other's are getting w/ Center X?
No criticism implied - was just trying to help If you are referring to the picture in post 5043 ? i cant see how close the sensor is to the flight path. My experience is that you want to try and get it to be only a few mm ( max 1/8th" ? ) from the bullet flight path.
I shot two lot numbers of cx, 15 shots each and got es of 33 & 37, sd’s were 8.4 & 10.1 at 1087 & 1093 fps with magneto speed.
cci sv was es 44 at 1102 fps
So nearly identical results. Interesting.
The cx that i used was the best 2 lots that lapua tested in my gun. I’d guess that could explain the small difference. I run my mag speed about 1/4” from bottom of bullet. Also if you are useing a tapered barrel, they have slightly V shaped spacers for that. But it seems like you have yours set plenty good to me.That is a good 15% improvement though, so it's not that identical. 8.4 vs 10.1 SD and about .5" less size group at 200 yards.
What ammo?I shot my Vudoo at 50 yards today. Here are some of my groups. I added the 1” sticker after the fact as a reference for the Ballistic-x app.View attachment 7263355View attachment 7263356View attachment 7263357View attachment 7263358
Federal GMM. It says it in the overlaysWhat ammo?
Ok, so that's what FGMM means. I don't use the app and I thought FGMM had something to do with Vudoo.Federal GMM. It says it in the overlays
First question is, what exactly are you (anyone) trying to accomplish when you use your chronograph?
To get accurate speeds to enter in your ballistics calculator. And to see what the deviations are and to what extent. If you aim at the exact same point every time, in theory, you'll hit the exact same spot. IF your speeds vary, the bullet will impact low, high or on target depending on the actual speed of the bullet sent. Slower bullets hit lower, faster bullets hit higher. 50 fps can be up to ⅓" difference at 100 yards. As your distances increase, so does the spread.
Speed really doesn’t matter with Rimfire that much. Especially if you have a DSF truing function.
Just like a centerfire, once we go subsonic, MV isn’t the best choice to true data. Since we are never supersonic with current Rimfire ammo (no current supersonic ammo worth messing with), we are immediately in that area instead of 1300 yds with a lot of 6mm.
I have never put a chronograph on my current vudoo. I don’t even know if I‘ve adjusted the BC. Mainly all DSF.
When dealing with Rimfire, we really need to be looking into ELR type shooting techniques as that’s the area we are in being subsonic.
What's the best way to true my Strelok? I just inputed the MV speed into the calculator and the dials agree. Do I need to be looking at BCs instead? I'm I truing it wrong?
I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Distance is 100 yards. Same ammo different lot numbers. Shooting is ten 5-round groups over your chronograph and you record every shot. At the end of the day Ammo A has an SD of 8 and the ten group average is 1- 11/16" or 1.687".
Ammo B has a SD of 50 and the ten group average is exactly 1". Which ammo would you shoot in a match?
I can say with certainty that SD cannot be correlated to accuracy, good or bad. At least that's been my personal experience. That's one reason I don't use my chrony as much as I used to. Now I just use it out of curiously for which barrel length is faster or just how fast is a CCI Stinger to how slow is a 22 short.
When I shoot at my lowly 55 yard range I have had ammo record the same velocity back to back but the two rounds are .5" apart. Just the opposite has happened, I get one round at 987, the next at 1024 and they are touching? I can't help but believe there is a lot more variables affecting rimfire accuracy than speed, SD, extreme spread and other.
Even when you get past 100 yards and you are concerned about bullet drop, the conditions/weather has a larger impact on accuracy than how fast the ammo is or how small the SD or the MV.
I understand some of you are trying to gather data for your gadgets but for me, I would dial in my distance, record the settings or holdover for that distance and use my rangefinder to determine distance. Is my logic flawed? What am I missing?
I'm just trying to get educated.
I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Distance is 100 yards. Same ammo different lot numbers. Shooting is ten 5-round groups over your chronograph and you record every shot. At the end of the day Ammo A has an SD of 8 and the ten group average is 1- 11/16" or 1.687".
Ammo B has a SD of 50 and the ten group average is exactly 1". Which ammo would you shoot in a match?
I can say with certainty that SD cannot be correlated to accuracy, good or bad. At least that's been my personal experience. That's one reason I don't use my chrony as much as I used to. Now I just use it out of curiously for which barrel length is faster or just how fast is a CCI Stinger to how slow is a 22 short.
When I shoot at my lowly 55 yard range I have had ammo record the same velocity back to back but the two rounds are .5" apart. Just the opposite has happened, I get one round at 987, the next at 1024 and they are touching? I can't help but believe there is a lot more variables affecting rimfire accuracy than speed, SD, extreme spread and other.
Even when you get past 100 yards and you are concerned about bullet drop, the conditions/weather has a larger impact on accuracy than how fast the ammo is or how small the SD or the MV.
I understand some of you are trying to gather data for your gadgets but for me, I would dial in my distance, record the settings or holdover for that distance and use my rangefinder to determine distance. Is my logic flawed? What am I missing?
I'm just trying to get educated.
Which would be what? Legit question so I can rethink whatever is deemed to be wrong.Some of this is correct. Some is not.
Which would be what? Legit question so I can rethink whatever is deemed to be wrong.
littlepod, I guess we have had different experiences.
Jefe's Dope, I agree with your thoughts.
Here is another way I look at it. If ammo A is the most accurate ammo I have at 55 yards it should also be the most accurate at any other distance. That's just logic 101. To say otherwise someone would be saying the bullet somehow curves back in. If a car's steering is out of alignment and you let go of the steering wheel the car steers one way or another, and just keeps going in that direction; it doesn't miraculously come back to the center.
Having said this, when I determine the most accurate round I'd buy a case of it and then start testing for point of impact change at different yardage. I would record in 25 yard increments and write down my scope elevation adjustments or holdover. In my case on my property in VA I have 300 yards I can get and will get when the time permits. I believe all the chrony testing in the world will never trump actual point of impact.
But, again, which would be what? Legit question so I can rethink whatever is deemed to be wrong. Also, I'm not trying to be a dickhead about this, we just have different ways of thinking and I always like to see others point of view.
Which would be what? Legit question so I can rethink whatever is deemed to be wrong.
littlepod, I guess we have had different experiences.
Jefe's Dope, I agree with your thoughts.
Here is another way I look at it. If ammo A is the most accurate ammo I have at 55 yards it should also be the most accurate at any other distance. That's just logic 101. To say otherwise someone would be saying the bullet somehow curves back in. If a car's steering is out of alignment and you let go of the steering wheel the car steers one way or another, and just keeps going in that direction; it doesn't miraculously come back to the center.
10-4. When I get to spend some time at my property in VA I can stretch 300 yards but easily get 200. I will test this at longer distances. Right now I'm limited at 55 yards.The part about SD not going hand in hand with accuracy is wrong.
At closer distances, yes. But the further out, the larger the SD/ES, the less top end accuracy you can achieve.
Same as a centerfire, I can shoot small groups at 100. But if the ES is junk, the groups will not hold out to distance.
I can't help but think that whatever is most accurate at 100 yards for you should be even more accurate at closer distances. But 25 yards is pretty close so all good ammo might not have had time to separate themselves. That's why I want to test at longer ranges but can't do it here in SC.Maybe apples to oranges but I have a 10/22 that sits on top the 25 yd games at RFC with a 5x4 in the mid .0s with wolf ME. Now one (me) would tend to think this would be my most accurate ammo at 100 yds but it's not. It actually sucks, big-time. Now cx is not the most accurate ammo out of the remaining ammo I have tried at 25 but groups the best at 100. I attribute that to the cx maintaining stability more consistently from 25-100 yds. Less chance for the bullet to stray
FGMM - Federal Gold Medal MatchOk, so that's what FGMM means. I don't use the app and I thought FGMM had something to do with Vudoo.
Sorry i didnt see someone answered you, my badFGMM - Federal Gold Medal Match
Once you reaching 200y or beyond your es/sd can ONLY help your accuracy so much..i think were expecting to much from our v22(thats a good thing!)
This is not your accurate center..its your accurate RIM..
Pushing her 200y?
Shooters error/skills
Temp and wind (gust)
Will affect that bitty pills more than your (low) SD helping..
But why would you beleive a hawaiian who doesnt even have a public range
Just my .02
R99:rick137, based on what I was told while testing at the Lapua facility in Ohio, Lapua makes a batch, then does all testing after the batch is made, and grades the ammo to the X-Act, Midas+ and LCX grades. Actual rifle shooting is part of the testing as well to help determine that the ammo should be assigned.
Do you guys just mildly clean when accuracy starts to fall off or what? My plan of attack for cleaning is running a patch worm with wet patches soaked in rem oil and then dry patches until no more black shit comes out.
Are you using nylon brush?When accuracy falls off. I generally super clean it, and then re-season it. Different schools of thought though... some people say never clean the 22 barrel and only clean the chamber (length of the round) to get rid of the carbon ring/fouling at the chamber. To do that I take a larger patch, soak it in Boretech rimfire cleaner, and let it sit in the chamber for 30-40min. Then I take a 22 brush and scrub only the 1" of the chamber to get rid of the carbon ring and wax/lube build up. Then I just push some dry patches through.
If I do a full clean... I push in 3 wet patches of Boretech Rimfire cleaner, and let it sit for 30min. Then I'll come back and dry patch it till it's clean.
Are you using nylon brush?
That's correct. The only time I use a nylon brush it when I want/need to change directions with the brush still inside the barrel. My common use would be to try and remove a very light carbon ring. Most of the time it doesn't work anyway and I get the JB with felt cleaners out.Yes. Though I asked a smith and said it shouldn't matter as brass bruss isn't going to scratch your barrel.
Nylon fishing line will wear a ceramic rod guide.Yes. Though I asked a smith and said it shouldn't matter as brass bruss isn't going to scratch your barrel.
Got my silencer today. Top left and right 3 are without silencer, left except very top one are with silencer. I hate it but it looks like silencer is going back in box.Cuzz, .....go shoot something.