OMG I just read about the 50 muller Barrels....Damn DrKnite there are the barrels you wanted LOL! I have 2 on order with paul right now, please tell me I won't have to buy 50 to get 3 or 4 to shoot.
- Thread starter RAVAGE88
- Start date
Now this is how internet lore gets going.
Jerry's referenced 50 barrels, nowhere did he say 50 Muller barrels, let's be careful, I'm pretty sure Stiller does n't need the villagers showing up with burning torches.
I'm sure Mark is just messin' around but I can tell you, it takes far less to get the villagers astir....SH on the other hand, isn't so sensitive....MB
They weren't all Mullers and of them they were multiple types, 4, 7 and 8 groove. There were equal numbers of Shilens, both ratchetts and octagons. In addition, some of them were and are still experimental. Muller and I work together on lots of ideas. I wish all of them turned out like I "knew" they would at the time.
Is doping the wind the main component of marksmanship in benchrest shooting? After reading the posts in this thread my impression is no amount of marksmanship will prevail in benchrest competition if you are shooting only a "good but not great" weapon system unless hurricane conditions prevail. Not that creating a great weapon system is trivial, just the opposite, and something only a few can do.
Yes. For sure. As the wind blows harder the less accurate guns gain on the better ones. Using good flags is a must. You will also find some guns and ammo take less hold. In most of Texas, shooting is a huge part of the puzzle.
Hey Jerry,
I wanted to play around with Ivan's rest and that was one of your builds sitting in it at post #321. Before I even fired a shot I told Ivan his rest was a piece of crap (May not have been my exact words. LOL) because it was acting really funky. He said "Whoops, forgot to make a few adjustments." It did work well after that, but you're correct, a conventional stock is not the correct method or the way Ivan wants his total package to work.
Landy
In this neck of the woods we shoot outside( the way God intended ) and usually in conditions, sometimes horrid.
I have shot with a lot of very good shooters over the years In several states and I would bet every time on the great shooter with a good gun vs a fair shooter with a great gun. Zero substitute for a skill set which can be learned. Problem is lots of guys work hard practicing bad habits.
A gently blowing wind will get the SH villagers stirred up. Anything more, it's a lynch mob. Ask me how I know?
MB
I would agree 100 percent
A gently blowing wind will get the SH villagers stirred up. Anything more, it's a lynch mob. Ask me how I know?
We've all been there Dude....
MB
! chatted with MIke today and got a revalation, he typed the following: " Vudoo isn’t building full blown BR rifles. " and "... just so everyone understands, Ivan is building the high end BR rifles, Vudoo is building a target rifle. The repeaters, although highly accurate and some are using them in BR and F Class and doing well, see more use in a different type of game.".
THIS IS A MAJOR GAME CHANGER TO ME
I'm seriously considering cancelling my order as I was led to believe that this new single shot was developed as a serious new BR factory action.
What say you all.........
THIS IS A MAJOR GAME CHANGER TO ME
I'm seriously considering cancelling my order as I was led to believe that this new single shot was developed as a serious new BR factory action.
What say you all.........
I’m not canceling my order. I full blown benchrest rifle is the sum of its many and varied parts. The action, trigger and barrel are only the beginning. Stock, bedding, rest and the all important ammo. This is where BR gunsmiths like Ivan and Jerry pull everything together
How are you taking what I said in the direction you’re taking it and then coming here just to stir things up? Do you expect to create a big pile on?
I answered your question via PM, we didn’t “chat,” so you have a limited perspective that I took the time to provide as I’m walking through an airport to connect to my next flight.
SMH
MB
This just sounds to me like there will be different tiers of the V-22S rifles depending on the intended discipline reserving the high-end BR rifle builds for smiths that have the experience and knowledge to eke out every bit of accuracy in the system.
Correct, Vudoo is a production facility that builds and ships hundreds of rifles per month. BR rifles aren’t built in a production facility, they’re built in a custom shop. The action serves our Target Platform and the Custom BR Platform.
MB
What exactly were you expecting here, something that was going to run equal to the best 100% bespoke, full customs ?
You seem to be getting a semi custom, probably competitive, offering without a lot of lead time and/or headaches the full custom offerings often entail . Strikes me as a fair Risk/reward balance.
How many guys start this game spending $ on a factory Annie, factory 40x, etc. ?
I think the key here is clarifying/meeting expectations for the customers, now that this question/statement has been raised.
I have a local Smith who is a distinguished member of the master gunmakers guild of America. He is a humble gentleman to say the least. He always under promises and over delivers. He has built rifles for me and my family saying they shoot "okay" but wouldn't promise anything upfront. They shot phenomenal-beyond my expectations. Every last one of them. His stock work (bread and butter) has been featured in many publications and again, humbly under promises but they are breathtakingly flawless. So with that said, let's stand on Vudoo's solid track record, phenomenal customer service, and the wizard's understanding and thirst for taking in as much knowledge as he can and applying it with passion. Yes. Time will tell but I believe a contender is born. I'm in!
Mike I was not attempting to "stir" things up. I was just reporting what I learned.
If I offended you or others, I sincerely apologize as I have always loved the Vudoo products and appreciate your forthright information on the new single shot. And yes I mixed the words chat and PM
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Several questions:
1. With the other components in a full custom BR build including rest will the V22S action be superior to other BR actions? That is win BR competitions.
2. With the other components in a full custom BR build including rest will the V22S barreled action be superior to other BR barreled actions?
3. With the other components in a full custom BR build including rest will the V22S barreled action plus Vudoo/Flavio trigger be superior to other BR barreled actions plus BR triggers?
4. How competitive will the V22S full build be in BR competitions? Given the importance of the support, identifying those gentlemen who could provide a support fitted to the stocks in the V22S full build would be helpful if the supports already mentioned in previous posts, such as the PQP from Killough, aren't sufficient to win BR matches.
Since I am full-in rooter for Vudoo I hope the answer to all of the above questions will be a resounding yes.
Personally I am eagerly awaiting my V22S barreled action with B&A BR trigger. It will be bedded in a GRS Sporter stock and using a Swaro scope will be happily shot standing offhand. I will conduct an experiment to determine if I can shoot the V22S more accurately than my trusty V22.
And since we all need some humor these days I will continue to be amused by those who believe they can accurately measure, with either software or calipers, the diameter of bullet holes in paper to 1 mil.
1. With the other components in a full custom BR build including rest will the V22S action be superior to other BR actions? That is win BR competitions.
2. With the other components in a full custom BR build including rest will the V22S barreled action be superior to other BR barreled actions?
3. With the other components in a full custom BR build including rest will the V22S barreled action plus Vudoo/Flavio trigger be superior to other BR barreled actions plus BR triggers?
4. How competitive will the V22S full build be in BR competitions? Given the importance of the support, identifying those gentlemen who could provide a support fitted to the stocks in the V22S full build would be helpful if the supports already mentioned in previous posts, such as the PQP from Killough, aren't sufficient to win BR matches.
Since I am full-in rooter for Vudoo I hope the answer to all of the above questions will be a resounding yes.
Personally I am eagerly awaiting my V22S barreled action with B&A BR trigger. It will be bedded in a GRS Sporter stock and using a Swaro scope will be happily shot standing offhand. I will conduct an experiment to determine if I can shoot the V22S more accurately than my trusty V22.
And since we all need some humor these days I will continue to be amused by those who believe they can accurately measure, with either software or calipers, the diameter of bullet holes in paper to 1 mil.
I appreciate your posting, as I, for one, was not aware of the strategy to sell a "target" rifle rather than a "match" rifle. I also did not take your message as "stirring" but rather just clarifying what was not obvious from the previous statements made about the new rifle. I'm sure it will shoot well, probably much better than I can shoot. Also, the manufacturing strategy makes sense when you think about it as well.
rick137, I think you are spot-on on the measurement discussion. I have yet to shoot a group where the group size is smaller than the diameter of a single bullet (0.223). Still trying to figure out how to do that....
Certainly much more accurate to measure with quality software than a set of calipers and old eyes
OH! that's easy.... i can answer that one ! use c-t-c rather than o-t-orick137, I think you are spot-on on the measurement discussion. I have yet to shoot a group where the group size is smaller than the diameter of a single bullet (0.223). Still trying to figure out how to do that....
1. With the other components in a full custom BR build including rest will the V22S action be superior to other BR actions? That is win BR competitions.
No one knows. I am sure Mike and Ivan believe it is. I know others with qualifications who don't based on some design options. I am not making a personal judgement at this time. The results will tell us.. My inclination is to say No simply because the action in and of itself isn't the biggest factor in a winning rifle.
2. With the other components in a full custom BR build including rest will the V22S barreled action be superior to other BR barreled actions?
I guess it depends on how you want to define how you want to get a barreled action. As you don't buy a barreled action alone from other manufacturers (not sure about RimX), this really isn't a great question because if there is no alternative, hard to say it won't be superior. But superior to what? If you include buying an action and having a gunsmith put a barrel on it, then again the answer is no. This isn't a zero sum game. One gun might be a better shooter, the next not.
3. With the other components in a full custom BR build including rest will the V22S barreled action plus Vudoo/Flavio trigger be superior to other BR barreled actions plus BR triggers? See answer 1.
4. How competitive will the V22S full build be in BR competitions? Given the importance of the support, identifying those gentlemen who could provide a support fitted to the stocks in the V22S full build would be helpful if the supports already mentioned in previous posts, such as the PQP from Killough, aren't sufficient to win BR matches.
See answer 1: If the PQP isn't sufficient to win BR matches, I think you need to tell Bob Cleveland he is doing something wrong as that is what he uses. He is probably the top shooter in all of BR at this time and has been for the last two years.. He will be at the match on Aug 1st. Tell him that after the match
Since I am full-in rooter for Vudoo I hope the answer to all of the above questions will be a resounding yes.
Sorry to disappoint. I also have a Vudoo, but BR is more than just an action. Nothing wrong with rooting.
Personally I am eagerly awaiting my V22S barreled action with B&A BR trigger. It will be bedded in a GRS Sporter stock and using a Swaro scope will be happily shot standing offhand. I will conduct an experiment to determine if I can shoot the V22S more accurately than my trusty V22.
And since we all need some humor these days I will continue to be amused by those who believe they can accurately measure, with either software or calipers, the diameter of bullet holes in paper to 1 mil.
No one knows. I am sure Mike and Ivan believe it is. I know others with qualifications who don't based on some design options. I am not making a personal judgement at this time. The results will tell us.. My inclination is to say No simply because the action in and of itself isn't the biggest factor in a winning rifle.
2. With the other components in a full custom BR build including rest will the V22S barreled action be superior to other BR barreled actions?
I guess it depends on how you want to define how you want to get a barreled action. As you don't buy a barreled action alone from other manufacturers (not sure about RimX), this really isn't a great question because if there is no alternative, hard to say it won't be superior. But superior to what? If you include buying an action and having a gunsmith put a barrel on it, then again the answer is no. This isn't a zero sum game. One gun might be a better shooter, the next not.
3. With the other components in a full custom BR build including rest will the V22S barreled action plus Vudoo/Flavio trigger be superior to other BR barreled actions plus BR triggers? See answer 1.
4. How competitive will the V22S full build be in BR competitions? Given the importance of the support, identifying those gentlemen who could provide a support fitted to the stocks in the V22S full build would be helpful if the supports already mentioned in previous posts, such as the PQP from Killough, aren't sufficient to win BR matches.
See answer 1: If the PQP isn't sufficient to win BR matches, I think you need to tell Bob Cleveland he is doing something wrong as that is what he uses. He is probably the top shooter in all of BR at this time and has been for the last two years.. He will be at the match on Aug 1st. Tell him that after the match
Since I am full-in rooter for Vudoo I hope the answer to all of the above questions will be a resounding yes.
Sorry to disappoint. I also have a Vudoo, but BR is more than just an action. Nothing wrong with rooting.
Personally I am eagerly awaiting my V22S barreled action with B&A BR trigger. It will be bedded in a GRS Sporter stock and using a Swaro scope will be happily shot standing offhand. I will conduct an experiment to determine if I can shoot the V22S more accurately than my trusty V22.
And since we all need some humor these days I will continue to be amused by those who believe they can accurately measure, with either software or calipers, the diameter of bullet holes in paper to 1 mil.
Great Response Hozzie,1. With the other components in a full custom BR build including rest will the V22S action be superior to other BR actions? That is win BR competitions.
No one knows. I am sure Mike and Ivan believe it is. I know others with qualifications who don't based on some design options. I am not making a personal judgement at this time. The results will tell us.. My inclination is to say No simply because the action in and of itself isn't the biggest factor in a winning rifle.
2. With the other components in a full custom BR build including rest will the V22S barreled action be superior to other BR barreled actions?
I guess it depends on how you want to define how you want to get a barreled action. As you don't buy a barreled action alone from other manufacturers (not sure about RimX), this really isn't a great question because if there is no alternative, hard to say it won't be superior. But superior to what? If you include buying an action and having a gunsmith put a barrel on it, then again the answer is no. This isn't a zero sum game. One gun might be a better shooter, the next not.
3. With the other components in a full custom BR build including rest will the V22S barreled action plus Vudoo/Flavio trigger be superior to other BR barreled actions plus BR triggers? See answer 1.
4. How competitive will the V22S full build be in BR competitions? Given the importance of the support, identifying those gentlemen who could provide a support fitted to the stocks in the V22S full build would be helpful if the supports already mentioned in previous posts, such as the PQP from Killough, aren't sufficient to win BR matches.
See answer 1: If the PQP isn't sufficient to win BR matches, I think you need to tell Bob Cleveland he is doing something wrong as that is what he uses. He is probably the top shooter in all of BR at this time and has been for the last two years.. He will be at the match on Aug 1st. Tell him that after the match
Since I am full-in rooter for Vudoo I hope the answer to all of the above questions will be a resounding yes.
Sorry to disappoint. I also have a Vudoo, but BR is more than just an action. Nothing wrong with rooting.
Personally I am eagerly awaiting my V22S barreled action with B&A BR trigger. It will be bedded in a GRS Sporter stock and using a Swaro scope will be happily shot standing offhand. I will conduct an experiment to determine if I can shoot the V22S more accurately than my trusty V22.
And since we all need some humor these days I will continue to be amused by those who believe they can accurately measure, with either software or calipers, the diameter of bullet holes in paper to 1 mil.
I think the general answer to Rick137’s question is “it’s too soon to tell” …
At this point, all we’ve got is the performance data posted a week or so ago by Ivan. Extrapolating to National Finals is total spit balling!
The May 19th data for early the early build (sorry, Mike) wasn’t all that impressive. The June 14th data was better but still not at a state-of-the-art level. The data for Ivan’s 10X III is more like I would expect from the V-22S builds.
I’m a little confused by the “Target” or “Match” strategy but I guess it was developed to sell more actions by designing for multiple disciplines, unlimited benchrest being only a small segment of the product strategy.
Let’s give VGW some time to develop the V-22S product and get it out there in the ARA/PSL/ABRA/IR-50/50 world. The design is still in its infancy and maybe Vudoo got a bit in front of their skis in their marketing campaign. From the threads on this product it's obvious that at least the Vudoo faithful are foaming at the mouth to get their hands on the new action, regardless of how it performs. That's product loyalty!!!
I wish the VGW/Lapua/Ivanhoe the best, both with the Bullet Proof 150 and the V-22S action.
Mike I appreciate your time in helping me get my head around this new Vudoo built complete gun. I never wanted to disparage you or the company as I'm a devoted customer.
One more question for, you indicated there were two platforms , " The action serves our Target Platform and the Custom BR Platform." for this gun.
My question is what is the difference between the two?
One more question for, you indicated there were two platforms , " The action serves our Target Platform and the Custom BR Platform." for this gun.
My question is what is the difference between the two?
1. Actions don't win matches, good shooters with complete, comprehensive platforms, using quality ammo win matches......bad question.
2. Probably not, these are rimfire actions not nuclear warheads.
3.Probably not, never rule out anything.
4. Don't hold your breath, top flight guys are pretty set in how they go about things. A million variables here so, unfortunately, bad question.
Bottom line, anything is possible but lots of you guys miss the fundamental principle here, this may be evolutionary but unlikely to be revolutionary.
RFBR has advanced so far, with the average guy having such good equipment, on average, the bottom line here gents, EVERYTHING moving forward is baby steps.
My opinions only, worth exactly what you paid for them, feel free to consider or disregard as you see fit.
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As far as the list of questions post #475, I really kind of think the only answer that really matters comes from Vudoo. Their intentions, data on what they have done, what their goal and intended market/performance levels etc are is only known by them. Also, many of the components features are new and not like the BR community has used on currently available actions and guns, their opinion and explanation of why is only something that can come from them. We all have our opinions, but we seem to get people up here speaking for them, but their voice on this is what's needed for anyone interested in going that direction. I am sure Mike will chime in when he has time.
Rick137,
Re: Your first question. " With the other components in a full custom BR build including rest will the V22S action be superior to other BR actions?"
Given rest and actions alone don't win matches what criteria would you use to determine which action is superior?
This is not a trick question. I'm just trying to get my head around what guys are expecting as a result of this new entry into the BR game.
TKH
Re: Your first question. " With the other components in a full custom BR build including rest will the V22S action be superior to other BR actions?"
Given rest and actions alone don't win matches what criteria would you use to determine which action is superior?
This is not a trick question. I'm just trying to get my head around what guys are expecting as a result of this new entry into the BR game.
TKH
I just re-read Page 1 of this Thread. (again) Impressive. If anywhere in that range I will be happy. I am quite new to benchrest. I have been much more of a pistol shooter the last 18 years. A good friend got me involved in the RF Tactical Match and my purchase of a Vudoo Repeater. He introduced me to Snipershide. And I do love the Vudoo Repeater. I have shot quite a bit of Air Rifles. I have three RAW's. Great triggers, very accurate top drawer AG's. The Tactical Shooting and BR feels like an extension of what I have done with my air rifles. I have no fantasy of being a top BR shooter. I live too far from the range and I have a little sense of what it would take, and it is not in my cards. However. I do love good equipment and try to get the most out of it. I think I will greatly enjoy trying to get my V22S to shoot as good as I am able (once it arrives). I may even 'scare' our club's top runners every once in a while. All good with me.
Again, I went back to page 1 to look at Mike's Introduction to this project What did he say he was going to do? I have read through this whole String several times. I have watched and re-watched Mike's videos. I am looking forward to what he and the Vudoo Crew bring to the table. My normal goal is when I miss, it is me and not the equipment. My guess is I will be quite well served by the dish they will deliver. All the Best. 4Certain.
Again, I went back to page 1 to look at Mike's Introduction to this project What did he say he was going to do? I have read through this whole String several times. I have watched and re-watched Mike's videos. I am looking forward to what he and the Vudoo Crew bring to the table. My normal goal is when I miss, it is me and not the equipment. My guess is I will be quite well served by the dish they will deliver. All the Best. 4Certain.
TKH:
My interest in benchrest shooting is purely intellectual, the physics of accuracy/precision as it were, since I presume the accuracy/precision of benchrest shooting is only superseded by railgun shooting. So I have no expectation whatsoever in a practical sense.
Your question is spot-on. Actions do not have an accuracy/precision. Barrels do not have an accuracy/precision. Ammunition does not have an accuracy/precision. Only weapon systems have an accuracy/precision, that is only something which actually shoots has an accuracy/precision. Also the shooter is part of a weapon system. For sake of discussion assume two shooters have equal marksmanship skill. One is using a great benchrest weapon system that has won national competitions. Anothing is using a benchrest weapon system with a V22S action together with all other compatable top-notch components to produce optimal accuracy/precision. How would the two shooters fare in head-to-head competition? Would ammunition roulette determine the winner? If the Vudoo based weapon system won what contribution would the Vudoo action have made? Basically impossible to know. Only know that a weapon system with a Vudoo action was superior to the other weapon system.
Lets have fun and shoot the shoot.
Ok, so, forgive me guys as I've literally been traveling for two weeks straight with very little time to respond in a way that affords a proper level of detail.
There has been a lot of excitement over what we're doing and I have to apologize that not everyone is aware of exactly what that entails. I've mentioned in various places that this project is unfolding as a work-in-progress and that's because so many people have varied interest, which affects how I approach different aspects of the design features, etc. As such, each of you has a piece of the overall vision, hence the questions and confusion, so, I'll do my best right now within a pretty small window while everyone else is out of the conference room.
First and foremost, sales is NEVER the first consideration of anything I've ever developed....NEVER. Well, what is the first thing? It's simple and seemingly foreign to some, but, it's actually servitude that comes first. I do what I do to serve this community. So what I mean by that is, I'm not developing a single shot action exclusively for a highly confined group to do just one thing. I'm developing a single shot for a multitude of different shooting disciplines and what I've not done such a good job explaining is, the total assembly is what defines the specific use....not just the action. So, to make it very simple, this action serves the BR, F-Class, 3P, ELR, general target and other shooting communities. Well, how does it do that? By using it to build an assembly that's specific to how you perform very well within those varied disciplines. It's really that simple.
Second, as I've mentioned, Vudoo is building what I've termed as a "target rifle" because I'll never give anyone the long-term impression that we're going to build full blown custom systems used in serious benchrest within what is a production environment. Did I consider that early on? Sure did....but I mentioned something somewhere else about the "rate at which you learn" and I swear you'd have thought I was discussing the theory of relativity with a first grader. So, we teamed with Ivan Wells....Why? Because he's at the absolute top of the food chain in BR and not involving him would be a total failure on my part at properly serving this community.
So, if you have questions or if there's confusion to be cleared up, that's fine, but, let's go about it in a way that doesn't create drama. If I say something you're not quite grasping, just simply ask me to help you understand what I said. Again, this is a work in progress because there's so many more to serve than just what is confined amongst what is a very small user group.
Thanks guys,
MB
There has been a lot of excitement over what we're doing and I have to apologize that not everyone is aware of exactly what that entails. I've mentioned in various places that this project is unfolding as a work-in-progress and that's because so many people have varied interest, which affects how I approach different aspects of the design features, etc. As such, each of you has a piece of the overall vision, hence the questions and confusion, so, I'll do my best right now within a pretty small window while everyone else is out of the conference room.
First and foremost, sales is NEVER the first consideration of anything I've ever developed....NEVER. Well, what is the first thing? It's simple and seemingly foreign to some, but, it's actually servitude that comes first. I do what I do to serve this community. So what I mean by that is, I'm not developing a single shot action exclusively for a highly confined group to do just one thing. I'm developing a single shot for a multitude of different shooting disciplines and what I've not done such a good job explaining is, the total assembly is what defines the specific use....not just the action. So, to make it very simple, this action serves the BR, F-Class, 3P, ELR, general target and other shooting communities. Well, how does it do that? By using it to build an assembly that's specific to how you perform very well within those varied disciplines. It's really that simple.
Second, as I've mentioned, Vudoo is building what I've termed as a "target rifle" because I'll never give anyone the long-term impression that we're going to build full blown custom systems used in serious benchrest within what is a production environment. Did I consider that early on? Sure did....but I mentioned something somewhere else about the "rate at which you learn" and I swear you'd have thought I was discussing the theory of relativity with a first grader. So, we teamed with Ivan Wells....Why? Because he's at the absolute top of the food chain in BR and not involving him would be a total failure on my part at properly serving this community.
So, if you have questions or if there's confusion to be cleared up, that's fine, but, let's go about it in a way that doesn't create drama. If I say something you're not quite grasping, just simply ask me to help you understand what I said. Again, this is a work in progress because there's so many more to serve than just what is confined amongst what is a very small user group.
Thanks guys,
MB
I am fairly new to the BR 50 game (2 years) and what I have learned is that actions do play a very important part in the total package. I started out with two older, used actions which was all that was available to me at the time. Some months later I obtained two brand new actions from the same manufacturer. Both of the new actions never came up to the shooting quality of the older actions for some reason. I put the same barrel, same stock, same trigger, same scope, same lot numbers of ammo and shot indoor under same conditions. The two new actions were never able to come close to the older ones. With everything being the same the new actions, whether it was tolerances in the manufacturing process I don't know, but I gave them every chance and could never make them equal. My gunsmith went through the new ones, trying to make them shoot but he was never able to correct them. He was the same gunsmith on one of the original actions. So when someone tells me that the action is not a big factor I can show them my score cards which I still have. After discarding those two new actions, I tried a different brand of action and found it shot on a comparable basis with my older actions, although I was not as comfortable with the feel of the action as my old ones. That was just a personal preference. Also, I had the opportunity to actually inspect and operate the new Vudoo prototypes a few weeks back and I immediately put my name on the list for a couple of them. The quality of workmanship and design effort that has gone into the Vudoo is evident when you actually hold one in your hand. I think everyone at Buck Creek will be impressed when they see it. Just my two cents worth.
Guys I am seeing a ton of concern about the V22S build from Vudoo. I know the list of parts being put in my Factory V22S is all top quality and all would be in a custom build. But I know I am not getting a custom build at the end of the day. Guys make your mind up if you want a 100% custom rimfire rifle and can deal with Months or even a year or longer to receive your rifle. I am dipping my toe in the BR world and have seen things that are crazy! Do I think when I get my new V22S I am going out and start setting the world on fire, NOPE! Do I think I can go down to my local BR shoot and do well, yes because I am not shooting against guys like Ivan or Bob! Do I think I will be able to win a HIGH level Smallbore F-class shoot with my new factory built V22S...HELL YES without a doubt! To all guys getting into the BR world, you better worry about one thing, LEARN to test ammo. Once again, Please listen NON-BR guys"ME" wanting to test the waters, the real secret to BR is ammo, ammo, ammo.
Thanks Mark....just one thing to drill down on as I believe it's really important. I don't consider the "concern" to be "a ton," because most that are posting here and sharing excitement are familiar with who we are and what we've been doing in rimfire. I've read recently that BR has been considered the F1 Racing of shooting, but, if you've spent much time around those cars, it's not hard to realize quickly that the technology isn't nearly as advanced as cars in other types of racing. Of course there are many perspectives, but not everyone considers multiple perspectives as it relates to what are the broader areas of consideration for what we're doing and why.
MB
rick137,
Thank you for your honest, straight forward response. We are in complete agreement about equipment.
I have shot RFBR for quite sometime and I would like to make two points that may help others understand my initial question.
A rimfire action has much more influence over accuracy than a centerfire action in a rifle build. It has to do with ignition.
Centerfire has that wonderful self contained primer in the middle of the cartridge. Makes ignition very consistent from shot to shot.
Powder in a centerfire case fills, or nearly fills the case. Rimfire cases are less than 10% full.
Rimfire depends on the firing pin striking the case head to cause ignition.
If two rimfire actions are made with the same design and with the same precision, (eg. bolt centered, threads centered, action face square, locking lug contact, trigger hanger properly located, etc. etc.)
The action that delivers the most consistent strike to the cartridge case (location of strike, and depth of strike,
will more often than not be the more accurate . Some action designs make achieving this consistency easier than others.
The other point is rail guns rarely beat bag guns in shooting for score, or even in group matches.
Rail guns have there uses but are not often used in open competition.
TKH
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Thank you tonykharper for contributing to my question in #428:
"If two rimfire actions are made with the same design and with the same precision, (eg. bolt centered, threads centered, action face square, locking lug contact, trigger hanger properly located, etc. etc.)
The action that delivers the most consistent strike to the cartridge case (location of strike, and depth of strike, will more often than not be the more accurate . Some action designs make achieving this consistency easier than others."
That's the type of information I was looking for in my post. Both Jerry Stiller and Mike Bush responded (and I appreciate their response) but I was hoping that the knowledgable folks following this thread would chime in like you have.
Hopefully, with your post, we'll see more thoughts on this thread ...
Gen 3 Single Shots on the left, Gen 2 Repeaters on the right....
MB
MB
And what's that in the middle on the right?
hahahahhah I ask the same thing!
S
Could you be a bit more quantitative. What was the difference between the old actions, the two unsatisfactory new actions and the satisfactory new action.
S:
Could you be a bit more quantitative. What was the difference between the old actions, the two unsatisfactory new actions and the satisfactory new action.
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