Gees, it seems that quite a few guys use this kind of rest
I think I'm also going to look into the Farley...
- Thread starter RAVAGE88
- Start date
Just keep in mind there are quite a few different top styles made to fit the Fulghum adapter plate. You may decide to try a Fuzz Button, or roller top, or any of the others. They all attach to the Fulghum base plate.
If you are only going to shoot Unlimited in ARA, IR5050, etc, then I would highly recommend a one piece. You can certainly use a two piece, but think long term most prefer a one piece. In fact, many of us have both a one piece and a Front rest as many shoot IR5050 three gun and sporter which require a two piece setup. Many use a Fulghum front rest as it of course has the same adapter plate at the one piece rests so tops can be swapped if you want.
Farley's are nice, SEB's are nice, Lenzi's are nice. There are a lot of good options today. Just make sure you understand the pro's and con's to each type.
Thanks for the information! I guess I'd be classified as a "Club Shooter". No major competitions. We have fun shooting baby aspirin or mini jaw breakers hot glued to golf tees at 100 or playing cards sideways at 50. We even try to unscrew the tops off of water bottles or try to shoot the center of Life Savers without breaking 'em. I've been using a Dan Greenlaw base and windage top for years with great results. Once in a while we'll shoot a card for score. I just thought I'd like to try something different with the new rifle without having to sell one of my kids or take a second mortgage on the house if you know what I mean....(lol)
How about we return to the gun, not the rests.
ok, sorry...
Good idea Travelor!!! Let's talk about the firing pin and springs ...
My rifle, a V-22S, Shilen Ratchet, Vudoo Flavio Fare in the RO-Tex, went to my buddy, a top-tier ARA competitor, who did a stem-to-stern action blue print. He measured, polished and adjusted the action to suit his personal expectations. He was impressed with how the action came from St. George and acknowledged that the effort he put into the blue printing would only put icing on the cake with one possible exception - the firing pin spring selection.
We got the revised firing pin that MB shipped in late February and installed it with the lightest, i.e., 13 lb, spring. The firing pin was polished as was the inside and the ends of the spring. The intent was to eliminate any potential drag the firing pin might have should it come in contact with the spring. Again, this is more of an insurance policy than a necessary modification. MB weighed in on this task and said "it couldn't hurt".
There's several schools of thought on firing pin springs and firing pin weight - some like a lighter spring to decrease post ignition vibration, others prefer a heavier spring that results in a harder strike but probably more vibration. My rifle is set up to minimize post ignition vibration. However, the 13 lb. spring can be a little tricky.
With the 13 lb. spring I get occasional failure to fires - we call them "clicks", more with Eley than with Lapua. My favorite lot of Midas + hardly ever has a click. I've got a gunsmith friend who prefers the 14 lb. spring which hits a little harder but exhibits few or no "clicks".
I'm good with the way my rifle is set up ... my tuner/tester ARA competitor shot a perfect 2500 score on the first ARA sanctioned target shot with a V-22S equipped rifle. I have confidence in the way my rifle has been set up, NOW if I can find killer ammo and learn how to shoot as well as my friend shoots.
That's the abridged story of how my rifle was set up and how the set up was demonstrated to be effective in a real life accuracy demonstration. I'd like to hear how other V-22S owners have set up their rifles and tuned their ignition. What performance results do you feel you've gained from your tuning.
Norm Flynn
My rifle, a V-22S, Shilen Ratchet, Vudoo Flavio Fare in the RO-Tex, went to my buddy, a top-tier ARA competitor, who did a stem-to-stern action blue print. He measured, polished and adjusted the action to suit his personal expectations. He was impressed with how the action came from St. George and acknowledged that the effort he put into the blue printing would only put icing on the cake with one possible exception - the firing pin spring selection.
We got the revised firing pin that MB shipped in late February and installed it with the lightest, i.e., 13 lb, spring. The firing pin was polished as was the inside and the ends of the spring. The intent was to eliminate any potential drag the firing pin might have should it come in contact with the spring. Again, this is more of an insurance policy than a necessary modification. MB weighed in on this task and said "it couldn't hurt".
There's several schools of thought on firing pin springs and firing pin weight - some like a lighter spring to decrease post ignition vibration, others prefer a heavier spring that results in a harder strike but probably more vibration. My rifle is set up to minimize post ignition vibration. However, the 13 lb. spring can be a little tricky.
With the 13 lb. spring I get occasional failure to fires - we call them "clicks", more with Eley than with Lapua. My favorite lot of Midas + hardly ever has a click. I've got a gunsmith friend who prefers the 14 lb. spring which hits a little harder but exhibits few or no "clicks".
I'm good with the way my rifle is set up ... my tuner/tester ARA competitor shot a perfect 2500 score on the first ARA sanctioned target shot with a V-22S equipped rifle. I have confidence in the way my rifle has been set up, NOW if I can find killer ammo and learn how to shoot as well as my friend shoots.
That's the abridged story of how my rifle was set up and how the set up was demonstrated to be effective in a real life accuracy demonstration. I'd like to hear how other V-22S owners have set up their rifles and tuned their ignition. What performance results do you feel you've gained from your tuning.
Norm Flynn
Thanks Norm, nice write-up, but before my phone starts blowing up, let's make sure we take a couple of things a little further in context and identify what's applicable and what's not. First, the use of the word, "blueprinting." Jerry didn't "blueprint" anything (more on this below). Largely, what Jerry and I discussed was purely experimental relative to a couple of specific results he was looking for. He polished the "new" firing pin simply because it looked different than the one he took out. There's no conclusive evidence that says it changed anything.
Secondly, and most importantly, Jerry utilized the design of the overall system exactly as I intended. The "system" is meant to be tuned with a selection of main springs and positioning of the cocking piece to achieve a desired result, which you described nicely by mentioning your favorite lot of Midas+. When the system is so finely tuned, it basically runs on the edge, as many other finely tuned systems will do. Some ammo will fail to fire, some won't. The alternative is reverting to the common practice of snipping coils, which leads one to a place of not knowing exactly what they have. Reproducing the same results when that snipped spring is replaced due to wear, etc., is difficult to impossible. Also, snipping springs causes many other issues as springs are more complex than many realize.
Lastly, "blueprinting." Blueprinting is an enormous and involved process where one properly qualifies many features relative to a particular datum or set of datums. Jerry didn't do that, Jerry tuned the system as it was intended and he polished a firing pin. When I've "blueprinted" receivers, I literally machine away the barrel threads and re-machine new threads that agree with the associated datum(s). I've done the same to bolt bodies, bolt noses and firing pins. In some cases, I've made new parts because the OEM parts were so far off that I had no room to properly qualify the OEM part.
So, hopefully this helps provide proper context and relevance as it relates to the results Jerry achieved. He's the guy that used Norm's rifle in a match, the first Vudoo V-22S factory built rifle used in any match, and fired two 2500s, one in practice and one on one card of a six card match.
MB
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My Vudoo V-22S and Vudoo Flavio Fare trigger will arrive Fri 4-16-21 at my FFl. Will add some Eley match and a Harrell tuner to box, then off to the builder. Muller barrel will follow to builder, then we will see. Once the builder is done he will send barreled action to Randy for (RO-Tex) stock. Hope it shoots as good as Ozark's #007.
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My V22S is as shipped from the factory: Shilen ratchet; Flavio Fare 90 Degree trigger in a McMillan Edge stock,. It shoots consistently in the .2's with proper ammo over flags. Yesterday it shot a 250-17x (IBS50RF target) in a greatly changing wind. This result was not so much me as the fine Vudoo V22s and Tennex ammo. I am using the firing pin spring that was in the rifle as delivered with the new style firing pin.
Just saying......
Just saying......
Something awesome is in the works....thanks Jamie Burgess. 
MB
MB
Another teaser, how soon?Something awesome is in the works....thanks Jamie Burgess.
MB
Not much longer. Jamie has the stock and butt plate finished, action is ready to go, just a few more things to do to get everything together.
MB
You are very welcome!!!Something awesome is in the works....thanks Jamie Burgess.
MB
Who makes the Tuner shown in post 1,662, Magikhands?
It sure looks like a Harrell's Precision Rimfire Tuner ... http://harrellsprec.com/index.php/products/harrell-rimfire-tuners-403
Thanks, guys.
I agree that it's a Harrell's. Mine looks identical.
I have a question on your ammo chase post. After a rifle is built (completed) is sending it, to KSS for Eley or to Laupa, to be lot tested a dumb idea? I know members talk about firing a brick or two before sending for testing. I wonder why a builder shoots a 1-3 boxes to tune up a newly built rifle work? Why would a brick or two be better? Would the lot chosen early suddenly be come an inconsistent lot to use later? This is a puzzlement? Anyone got an answer?
1. After a rifle is built (completed) is sending it, to KSS for Eley or to Laupa, to be lot tested a dumb idea?
Sending a newly completed rifle directly to a ammo test center is attractive. It’s efficient and it should give you some “decent” ammo to shoot with your new build.
Recognize that the rifle is brand new, probably only function tested by your gunsmith, with only initial evaluation of a rifles precision. The rifle will probably perform better as it’s tested, tuned and the barrel becomes “conditioned”.
So, NO, it’s not a dumb idea. It get’s you started and will give you confidence that the rifle and ammo are paired. You’ll have data from the test site for the ammo you select as well as for the lots you rejected.
2. I know members talk about firing a brick or two before sending for testing. I wonder why a builder shoots a 1-3 boxes to tune up a newly built rifle work?
Most experienced rimfire benchrest shooters will agree that a new build “settles” as the first few bricks of ammo are shot. If you’ve got a decent inventory of ammo for your other RFBR rifles you might prefer to do your own lot testing. If you’ve got little or no ammo inventory you’d probably be better off using a test center. In this age of ammo shortage from Eley and Lapua using a test facility affords you the opportunity to test several lots - that’s a plus!
A builder who shoots one to three boxes of ammo is function testing and getting an initial impression of the rifle’s potential. He’s probably also doing an initial barrel tuning to help the new owner get started. Most RFBR shooters recognize that optimizing performance from a new rifle doesn’t occur overnight.
3. Why would a brick or two be better?
As the new rifle is shot the mechanical parts, i.e., bolt and to a lesser extent the trigger, begin “breaking in” and become more comfortable working together. Smoother bolt throws result and the shooter begins understanding the “feel” of the new rifle.
A new rifle should perform better as the break-in period progresses. Again, this doesn’t happen immediately.
4. Would the lot chosen early suddenly be come an inconsistent lot to use later?
I think a lot chosen immediately following a build completion should perform well over time, i.e., until it’s all gone. A barrel will become conditioned with use - probably similar to the barrel lapping process some gunsmiths or barrel manufacturers use.
Remember, you’ll probably shoot thousands, hopefully tens of thousands of rounds through your rimfire benchrest rifle. Searching for “killer ammo” is a task that never ends. There’s a lot of approaches used to choose winning ammo. What works for you will become evident as you understand what your rifle requires and the expectations you have for your shooting or competitive goals.
I hope this helps,
Norm Flynn
Thanks for that Norm. Good explanation!
Thanks Ozark Shooter, that is all good info.
I have another reason to favor testing at one of the facilities and buying at least a case if feasible. It gives you an entire case of at least reasonable ammo so that as you refine your handling and technique with the new rifle you aren't shooting different ammo all the time ... ie. eliminate the ammo variable. You get a base understanding of what the guns does so that you can see what variables help or hinder. Also, when you next go to buy/test ammo you have a standard that should at least be equaled and preferably improved on.
I have another reason to favor testing at one of the facilities and buying at least a case if feasible. It gives you an entire case of at least reasonable ammo so that as you refine your handling and technique with the new rifle you aren't shooting different ammo all the time ... ie. eliminate the ammo variable. You get a base understanding of what the guns does so that you can see what variables help or hinder. Also, when you next go to buy/test ammo you have a standard that should at least be equaled and preferably improved on.
I'm glad you added "if feasible". I wish I could afford a case. I have to limit myself to two or three bricks at a time and that really depends on whether or not the hot water heater blows up or the refrigerator quits or the car needs tires, etc, etc, etc.....
Got my rifle today and put it in 10 day jail here in Calif. Does anyone know how much weight vudoo puts in the McMillan edge butt plate with there complete build? Have pics but no idea how to post them here caveman.
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Hello
I am Jacques, French shooter of bench rest 22LR, I am 77 years old and crazy amateur of shooting that I practice since 40 years.
I read you on the forum since a long time and I have a big desire to exchange with you.
I shot for a while with a Stiller 2500x +Schillen ratchet .850, it was replaced by a Turbo V3 with which I currently shoot.
and....the Vudoo V22S is currently at the FFl waiting for the French customs authorizations.
I thank Mike, Greg and Lisa for supporting me in my requests and I'm really impatient to see the beast....
of course I will tell you what we are doing and using for the BR50
Please excuse my English but I use the translator..........
Sincerely
jacques
I am Jacques, French shooter of bench rest 22LR, I am 77 years old and crazy amateur of shooting that I practice since 40 years.
I read you on the forum since a long time and I have a big desire to exchange with you.
I shot for a while with a Stiller 2500x +Schillen ratchet .850, it was replaced by a Turbo V3 with which I currently shoot.
and....the Vudoo V22S is currently at the FFl waiting for the French customs authorizations.
I thank Mike, Greg and Lisa for supporting me in my requests and I'm really impatient to see the beast....
of course I will tell you what we are doing and using for the BR50
Please excuse my English but I use the translator..........
Sincerely
jacques
Welcome, understood you completely. I too am 77 but have only been shooting RFBR for less than a year. I hope you like your new rifle, I think you will.
The McMillan web site shows 28 oz. for the Edge. Mine had no extra weight added.
Well reason I ask is if rifle is balanced as built by vudoo when you add a tuner weighing x oz shouldn't you look at what weight was added to other end ?
Hi Jacques, it's awesome to have you join the forum discussion. It has been great to deal with you and I've enjoyed the emails, so please continue to reach out anytime you need anything.
MB
Greetings!
Looks like we have some Seniors among us! I'm the youngster at 72 and enjoying every minute with my V22-S!
Good Shooting!
Hey! I won't turn 70 for another few months....just a kid compared to some of you guys...lol
Jeez-O-Peet! At 55 I feel like I can ask to borrow the keys to the car and bring it back empty....
MB
Another "Senior" in his 70's here, Mike! Danny collected my Vudoo from Melbourne Customs this week. Hopefully, it will travel the last couple of thousand miles to my dealer in the next few weeks.
Allan.
Finally got some range time in today. Tested four types of ammo at 50 yds:
Center-X (1069)
SK Standard +
SK Rifle Match
Wolf (Lapua)
10 rounds each type except for Center-X which was a 20 round group. Didn't get to measure them up yet but it seems like the Ctr-X and SK Std + are pretty close. Ctr-X groups a little tighter. Had one flyer out of the SK. My rifle has a 22" ACE barrel. Without measuring I would estimate the groupings for the Std + and Ctr-X to be around low to mid 2's. The others a bit larger. The most flyers appeared from the Wolf. I was quite pleased with the way things turned out. Now all I need is AMMO!
Center-X (1069)
SK Standard +
SK Rifle Match
Wolf (Lapua)
10 rounds each type except for Center-X which was a 20 round group. Didn't get to measure them up yet but it seems like the Ctr-X and SK Std + are pretty close. Ctr-X groups a little tighter. Had one flyer out of the SK. My rifle has a 22" ACE barrel. Without measuring I would estimate the groupings for the Std + and Ctr-X to be around low to mid 2's. The others a bit larger. The most flyers appeared from the Wolf. I was quite pleased with the way things turned out. Now all I need is AMMO!
Uh, NO. Most, if not all of us have already been thru that, not again. LOL. And I'm only 65.Jeez-O-Peet! At 55 I feel like I can ask to borrow the keys to the car and bring it back empty....
MB
Following what is written by Norm I would like to give a logic that I use with a new rifle, this is a protocol set up by a former rifleman.
Shoot in sequences of 5, 10 15 20 clean up between each group shot and then space out this clean up as you increase the number of rounds fired.
We shoot without tuner and we see little by little the grouping evolve then will be the adjustment of the de-escalator and tuner with "good ammunition" it is necessary to shoot at least 1000 rounds to begin to have results in target.
Then it is necessary to shoot at least 2000 rounds before considering testing one or more batches of ammunition and it should not be forgotten that we must know how the gun reacts to fouling and its periodicity of cleaning.
To test ammunition batches at the shooting tunnel is a good sorting but it is still better to test outside to see the behavior in the wind.
In France we have the importer of Lapua, RWS, Eley, I ask him for 2 boxes of 50 per batch that he has in stock and I test indoors at home to make my choice, I shoot 30 rounds per grouping.
I look at the shape of the grouping and its diameter and I choose the most circular with the tightest dimensions and I always have good results on target.
Does a Ezell tuner work better than a Harrell's on a Vudoo with a Ross taper Muller?
I can't speak to the Ezell tuner. I can speak to the Muller Ross taper 25.5" with a Harrell's tuner on my V-22S. It shoots really well and continues to impress me every time I shoot it.
Shane
Good morning to all,
To pick up on your test I'm still surprised to read that you use the Center X a lot,
With the barrel Shilen ratchet I can't find a lot of center x that is in the 1/2" grouping. The same remark with Tenex the only one that surprised me is the Eley Match German (I have a supplier that recovers leftover batches that were qualified for the German bench team, the card that is pictured was made with it).
I'm in a team that even uses R50, Midas+, x act for serious match, by ordering in large quantities we manage to buy the M+ at 11$ the box of 50
Does anyone have experience with an EZZEL tuner on a Shilen Ratchet .900 barrel?
Hey Dude, check your PM at RFC. I provided the answer to your PM over there about five mins ago....
MB
$11/BOX for Ctr-X!
Holey Moley!
Everyone in my neck of the woods raves about Ctr-X. Ctr-X this and Ctr-X that........ It seems my rifle isn't that impressed with it. Std + seems to run better than Ctr-X. I haven't measured the groupings yet but the Std + seems to be consistently smaller. I shot a 2450-14X with WOLF and no tuner just messin' around. Obviously more testing is needed. I'll give the Ctr-X more time. It does, after all, produce less flyers than the others and that can make quite a difference in a match. We also shoot a lot of IR-5050. A flyer can be devastating in THAT match. I'd hate to get beat by a guy shooting a 250-4X and me shooting a 249-17X on account of a flyer......It happens.
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