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Wait for PVA or....?

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Corse

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Minuteman
Jun 26, 2018
33
7
I’ve had a PVA JH ordered for over a year now and I have been following the threads and it seems like there hasn’t been much progress in getting a lot of rifles out.

In light of this, what are some opinions? Should I continue to wait? Are there other rifles I should get instead, like the seekins havak bravo, savage elite, bergara, MPA, tikka CTR?

if I went with a different rifle, would their performance compare? Or I could continue saving for a AI or MRAD?
 
Is the GAP PPR sold out? That seems like a hot ticket. There’s another thread discussing it.
 
Badrock rifle for the same price as a Hancock or even the mpa production rifle at the same price.
 
Haha, Sorry man, but I've been there. If PVA gives you a lead time, double it at least. Cut your losses and buy something else. Too many great options out there to deal with any BS.
 
I'd go for a GAP if you can get one. They seem like an incredible value.
 
Give up on the Hancock, he's all but said they are done with them.

You won't be disappointed with any of the above suggestions, I went with MPA and have been very happy.
 
give up on PVA for sure, get your money back and not crappy store credit that would still support them. Avoid them for any future business. They should be held responsible for their repeated and ongoing failures instead of always blaming someone else. Plenty of good options out there, PVA is not one of them.
 
I didn’t hear that they gave up on getting the rifles out. That sucks. There are almost too many choices now. Should I save money on something like a CTR, or go to seekins/mpa etc. ? ??
 
get a used AI..
with so many choices there is no need to wait more than a few months at most
 
I’m Super happy with my Seekins but that Bad Rock seems like it could be a sleeper
 
Ruger American w/indian creek chasis and prefit barrel - DONE

you think this would be comparable? It sounds like it would be cheaper. Never even considered a Ruger.

I looked at the badrock. Doesn’t seem like a bad option, has anyone got there hands one one?
 
you think this would be comparable?
I mean it's not going to be winning bench rest trophies but at some point you hit diminishing returns. Is $1000+ worth the potential minute and negligible performance increase? I don't think so...but that's my opinion.

There are some decent "free" upgrades you can do that really help as well (bolt polish and trigger spring removal).
 
I’ve had a PVA JH ordered for over a year now and I have been following the threads and it seems like there hasn’t been much progress in getting a lot of rifles out.

In light of this, what are some opinions? Should I continue to wait? Are there other rifles I should get instead, like the seekins havak bravo, savage elite, bergara, MPA, tikka CTR?

if I went with a different rifle, would their performance compare? Or I could continue saving for a AI or MRAD?

What are you actually gonna be doing with the rifle?
 
Last one of those actions I felt the machining was so bad the running the bolt sounded and felt like a zipper.
A simple bolt polish and or high-grit sand makes quick work of that...same goes for the RPR (nearly identical action) and mine is buttery smooth now (y)
 
give yourself a 2.5-3k budget if you can (touch more than the Hancock), then hit the PX section. You'll be able to find something you like rem quick. and chances are you'll get accessories you'd have to buy anyway with it. and no wait time.
 
And that’s a damn shame about PVA too. I got JHR #11, and it’s a sweet shooting rifle.
Honestly, I think he and ARC had a falling out because of the John Hancock, and ARC cut them off. I doubt you’ll ever see another JHR leave PVA. If you do, it will be with another action. JMO of course.
 
Could try to take advantage of the fact that PVA has led you on for a year. Call em up and demand they get you some barreled action, or a whole rifle of some kind ASAP. Any Rem 700 custom clone will drop in to that KRG Bravo if that's the stock/chassis you're after specifically. Note that realistically just about all the money for that JH was toward the barreled action. The Bravo is only $350 for you and I. Who knows what PVA gets em for.

With that said, I don't know that I could move forward with anyone that jerked me around for a year. That's crazy.

For $2k you'd be hard pressed to beat the value of an MPA BA PMR. This is a crazy deal on one actually. You can tweak and customize this as you go. https://gunprodeals.com/product/mas...v-bedded-ba-hybrid-chassis-stk-polished-black
 
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Could try to take advantage of the fact that PVA has led you on for a year. Call em up and demand they get you some barreled action, or a whole rifle of some kind ASAP. Any Rem 700 custom clone will drop in to that KRG Bravo if that's the stock/chassis you're after specifically. Note that realistically just about all the money for that JH was toward the barreled action. The Bravo is only $350 for you and I. Who knows what PVA gets em for.

With that said, I don't know that I could move forward with anyone that jerked me around for a year. That's crazy.

For $2k you'd be hard pressed to beat the value of an MPA BA PMR. This is a crazy deal on one actually. You can tweak and customize this as you go. https://gunprodeals.com/product/mas...v-bedded-ba-hybrid-chassis-stk-polished-black
Wow, that MPA does seem like a deal. Anybody have experience with these?
 
Some of the barreled actions seem like they could be very nice. Not sure if they could beat the value of the MPA.
 
Wow, that MPA does seem like a deal. Anybody have experience with these?

I do, and tons of others. MPA is a staple in the custom, chassis based competition market. They lower cost on this model by building a low cost curtis action and use their barrel instead of something like a bartlein, then of course the rest is their stuff so they can price however they want. You could do the next step to up that’s $500 more. While that one does come with a slightly nicer chassis (touch heavier and has thumb wheel adjustment) everything else that comes with it is accessories you can buy individually and as you the $2k pmr. These guns really shoot.
 
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Had an MPA rifle from them with a Spencer barrel and Kelblys action. That rifle shot amazingly well without much work. Shot a little under half moa group at 800 yards with that rifle more than once. Buy with confidence if you go with MPA.
 
If the question is "Should I wait on PVA or...", the answer is always OR
 
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I do, and tons of others. MPA is a staple in the custom, chassis based competition market. They lower cost on this model by building a low cost curtis action and use their barrel instead of something like a bartlein, then of course the rest is their stuff so they can price however they want. You could do the next step to up that’s $500 more. While that one does come with a slightly nicer chassis (touch heavier and has thumb wheel adjustment) everything else that comes with it is accessories you can buy individually and as you the $2k pmr. These guns really shoot.
I believe they use xcaliber blanks on those rifles
 
Had an MPA rifle from them with a Spencer barrel and Kelblys action. That rifle shot amazingly well without much work. Shot a little under half moa group at 800 yards with that rifle more than once. Buy with confidence if you go with MPA.
MPA spencer barrels in 6.5 creedmoor shoot great with factory hornady from the 140bthp to the 147eldm. No work required. ?
 
Could try to take advantage of the fact that PVA has led you on for a year. Call em up and demand they get you some barreled action, or a whole rifle of some kind ASAP. Any Rem 700 custom clone will drop in to that KRG Bravo if that's the stock/chassis you're after specifically. Note that realistically just about all the money for that JH was toward the barreled action. The Bravo is only $350 for you and I. Who knows what PVA gets em for.

With that said, I don't know that I could move forward with anyone that jerked me around for a year. That's crazy.

Giving them any more money is just rewarding them for using you as a interest free personal loan for something they have no intention of ever delivering. No way I'd double down and support them for deceiving so many customers.

Just buy a big horn origin and put it in any chassis or stock you want. Too many barrel makers to count. I got my PVA barrels when they had sales and a guaranteed ship date. Great barrels.
PVA may come through with a good barrels, or they may not. But they are proven to be a much higher risk than other good shops. They have a documented history of misleading customers and failing to deliver on their promises. They claim it's in the past but its clearly not. I'd guess that people still supporting PVA just haven't experienced that yet, but they almost certainly will if they keep up the interactions. Why risk it with money at stake? PVA is a gamble on all three of (a)getting your order, (b) that it'll be what was promised, and (c) that you get it in reasonable time. Too many risks there. Just go with someone good & reliable for a barrel like StraightJacket, LRI, Keystone, Altus, SAC, etc. Way too many good options around to bother providing financial support to PVA.
 
I have bought several barrels from PVA recently. They have been quick and on the point. They shoot. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy again and I will. They offer the widest range of shouldered prefits that I am aware of. That’s the draw for me.

They have had issues in the past that has been well talked about here. They seem to be doing a good job as of late from my experience and seem to have been well respected before the JHK debacle as well. They made mistakes and hopefully they learned and will do right for the people who still have money out m
 
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That they’re not aggressively solving at least some of current JH orders tells me what I need to know.

There’s Smiths here that would probably be banging on your door to make things right.
 
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People saying they've ordered barrels and PVA has delivered while the OP is asking about a complete rifle are missing the point. PVA has often pushed out barrels at the expense of their rifles, which has been the biggest complaint on this site for years. Guys have been waiting on their rifles for a year and being given an excuse, a lie, or worse, nothing at all, while they're still getting emails about this barrel sale and that barrel sale and seeing those orders being fulfilled. Frankly, I'd be really pissed too

Edit: I'm really not trying to bash them. The reason they became so popular is Josh put out some really exceptional products. Unfortunately, he seemed to be a victim of his own success. While they might have an excellent product, it's not like he's the only one whose rifles or barrels shoot well. I can name a dozen smiths that will produce an incredible rifle without the hassle or headache and it'll be in your hands in weeks, not months, not years.
 
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PVA is a gamble on all three of (a)getting your order, (b) that it'll be what was promised, and (c) that you get it in reasonable time. Too many risks there. Just go with someone good & reliable for a barrel like StraightJacket, LRI, Keystone, Altus, SAC, etc. Way too many good options around to bother providing financial support to PVA.

This exactly. I am one out of three. Fortunately, I did get my order. Not what I ordered and took over one year. This is not ancient history. I received the two overdue and not to spec barrels last week.

Never again.

There are much better choices.
 
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PVA's stuff is awesome. However, in my experience they don't deliver in the promised time. I ordered a barrel and was given 6 to 8 week for delivery. Months of hearing nothing, I was given another time. When all was said and done, I received my barrel after 8 months. It's on 1 of my 2 best shooting rifles. The other has a barrel from someone else who promised 4 weeks and delivered 27 days after ordering. The PVA loyalist will have you believe, this is the only way you will ever get the quality you're looking for. PVA quality is top notch, but there is other options out there. And if they aren't the quality of PVA, I can't tell.
 
There are a lot of smiths out there. PVA has not made a single misstep in the several years I've been buying actions, barrels and barreled actions from them. Even retrofits (Howa1500) of my own actions with new barrels were done in the time promised...interestingly enough, for less money than originally estimated. I have a number of precision rifles, and they're all from PVA. No complaints. Ever. Recommend to my shooting buddies, never any negative feedback. Period. Not a loyalist, just see it as I do any other purchase: do it right, I'll be back. Screw it up, I'm history. I'm still there.

Edit: By the way, they're all "one hole wonders". One hole five shots groups at 100 yds. .223; .308, CM6.5. Have over 1,000 yard impacts on all of them. Yesterday with the CM at 980 with 3 mils of wind. Three of five on target. Missed shots were windage errors, not elevation.
 
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And that’s a damn shame about PVA too. I got JHR #11, and it’s a sweet shooting rifle.
Honestly, I think he and ARC had a falling out because of the John Hancock, and ARC cut them off. I doubt you’ll ever see another JHR leave PVA. If you do, it will be with another action. JMO of course.

Kinda my thoughts too. There's plenty of good budget custom actions they could base off.
 
How does the MPA/Curtis action compare to a big horn origin? I think its most likely between the MPA or a barreled bighorn. The MPA seems like a killer deal though.
 
There are a lot of smiths out there. PVA has not made a single misstep in the several years I've been buying actions, barrels and barreled actions from them.

You must mean solely on your orders, I presume? Because the OP has been waiting on a rifle for a year. Guys that have placed deposits on the Comp 40 tripods are still waiting for the shipment that was supposed to arrive last year. Hell, PVA's website still says "expected May 2019"!

PVA "missteps", as you described them, are very, VERY well documented on this site and they occur far too frequently. Guys placing deposits on things (rifles, barreled actions, tripods) that are never delivered for months or longer, then being told if they cancel, they forfeit part of their deposits??? And that's if, a huge IF at that, they can actually get in touch with someone there. I've placed three orders with PVA. Two went somewhat smoothly. One was a nightmare and I was told their mistake was MY fault. I couldn't, in any good conscience, recommend PVA to anyone, knowing of all the horror stories that are out there.
 
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Another Hancock thread... Here we go:


1) We have emailed every remaining RH Hancock order holders this week. The parts are FINALLY ready from the last vendor for the last of the rifle components. The barrels are done and everything is here in hand except for the actions which we needed bolt heads to complete them. We've been waiting on the proper bolt heads now for some time and they're finally done. We have sent invoices out to the remaining 16 orders. The LH orders we need LH actions and they will also be filled with LH KRG Bravo's once those are ready on the market. It won't be a conversion chassis anymore since they're supporting the LH option now (which is awesome as I'm a lefty myself).

I don't know who the OP is or what his order # is but he's been sent an email with a link to pay for his order. All orders still outstanding at this time are being filled with a complimentary Jetblast muzzle brake as an olive branch towards the substantial delays and as a thank you to customers who have opted to wait for the rifle to deliver.

3 of 16 have paid and 1 shipped, 2 are still awaiting FFL paperwork to arrive
2 of them the people asked for some extra time to pay due to the WuFlu. Not a problem, we're working with them.
And 11 are in radio silence.

So, there may soon be 11 ready-to-ship Hancocks listed on the forum.

Now that we're ready to complete the rifles and invoicing people I'm not accepting cancellations except on LH orders. There has been ample time for people to confirm that they wanted to cancel when we asked previously.

2) j741 is a fraud. I was going to leave it alone but he's made it his mission, which he stated in an email, to push as much negative information about us as possible. So let's put the more of the info on his situation out there.

He was awarded a substantial store credit for IT work. The work he partially delivered, didn't do what he said, nor was the project completed. Then, and this is just recent, he claimed to have an issue with a barrel we made him on his store credit and a partial payment with a CC. I sent a call tag for it to come back, he shipped a box back that had a baggie of stainless tumbling media in it. Funny enough that bag of tumbling media weighed out EXACTLY what that barrel weighed. Then he put in a card chargeback notice and lied on the form, then he falsified BBB reports villifying us. We've been back and forth a couple of times about his situation with the BBB. I have emails to back all of it up, including his emails where he contradicts his story in his own emails and so do the police at this point.

3) @canezach the COMP40 example a bit of a misrepresentation, but here's the skinny on those:

They were always represented to have parts imported from overseas including China. When we got bad parts in hand we didn't ship them out we fought with the vendor and returned them. The rest of the world is finding out now what its like to do business with China. That's why we issued refunds to people and have not allowed orders to be placed on them. Using it as an example to show that we are selling things we don't have is totally off base, you can't place an order for it and you haven't been able to for 11 months. Once we were unable to reach an acceptable resolution with the vendor of aluminum parts we refunded the rest of the outstanding orders for whomever had not already cancelled. If anyone holds a COMP40 order that they're waiting on and I missed it when we refunded the others I apologize and we will get it taken care of immediately. Let me know via PM and we'll do it asap.

4) We have always filled orders as soon as possible, we don't hold things unless we cannot let it leave due to an issue. I won't hold up an order for a new barrel on someone because we're waiting on mag bolt heads for an action that someone else needs. That would be completely asinine.

As far as filling orders goes we are shipping custom ordered barrels faster than anyone else in the industry now and have been for at least the last 9 months. I'm sure someone will chime in and say "my barrel took 5 months" but they'll forget to tell you it was a blank that we didn't have in stock, told them it needed to be ordered, gave them the option to wait or to go elsewhere or to do something else... but here they are telling people it we took 5 months and other people are getting them in days. That is the way of the internet.


Bottom line is this, and I've said this before on here:

We had a LOT of problems in 18 and 19. Some were from us/me trying to get an expanding shop under control. Employee issues, vendors not delivering (and there are MANY threads of 1 particular vendor not delivering parts to people but we're still the ultimate bad guys for being late on Hancocks). The Hancock was an extremely audacious project that nobody else had tried at the time and the only people succeeding at it now have much bigger operations that have more of the parts vertically integrated.

We took a long time to get the stuff out the door in 2018 and 2019. We lost some orders, duplicated some orders and messed up some orders. I actually tabulated all of the returns and fixes we did in 18 and 19 from quality problems recently and by the numbers it was a lot better than I expected but still not where I want to be and not where we are now. I've also implemented better quality tracking metrics in house and that's why folks find serial numbers on the barrels that they get from us now. There is a database tracking all of the things like thread sizes, headspace, fit up, chambering, etc in an electronic record for reference and the person recording the data is a different person than the one who cut the barrel.

We're in a lot better position now to keep the workflow moving and we're much more organized than we were in 18 and the first half of 19.

To the OP, please check your emails for the info about the Hancock you have on order. Might be in a SPAM folder or if you have an old email address we sent the notices to the one in our system when you placed the order. If you're holding off on paying the invoice for COVID issues please contact us so that we know you want the rifle and don't sell it out from under you. We understand that a lot of people are not working right now and money can be a problem but please get in touch with us privately and we can talk about it.

Our current lead time for custom barrels is 3-4 weeks unless we don't have the blank, at which point we are notifying the customer immediately with several options. And as always, parts in hand is what makes the lead time matter. We can't do a lot without the right parts in hand which is why we have largely stopped advertising barreled actions, complete rifles and other combo prices because of the availability of vendor supplied components. If we don't have it here we don't sell it.
 
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