Want to build a 40x trainer

[Fishman7]

im looking to build a 40X in 22LR ive been bitten by the trainer builds
basic final product will be a clone of a GAP crusader

ill admit i dont know much if anything about the 40x rifles

i may be cursed for wanting to mollest a us marked CMP rifle

do all 40X recivers drop into 700 sa inlets ? i see alot of guys doing the AI stocks aswell as other stocks
ive read and seen photos of the 40x's and noticed there are slight differnces ie: bolt handles is that just a cosmetic thing

will a standard 700 base just bolt up or do they require any mod

as for a re-barell who would you recomend for the job that can also thread 1/2 x28 for a can
whats the minimum BBl length recomended my GAP is getting cut down to 20" so id like to match it or keep it close

whats the best trigger to install

any advise would be great

thanks in advance

 

[donws2]

Re: Want to build a 40x trainer

I own several 40x rifles so let me try to answer some of this.

First there were two types of 22 40x rifle sold by the CMP.
the first is the so called standard barrel which was based on the Remington 722 action.
the second is the heavy barrel which is base on the 700.

Both will fit any stock designed for the RH Rem 700 short action.
The safety is some what different on the gun based off of the 722 so there maybe a need to make a slight cut to clear the stock.

There is a difference in the bolt handles. The 722 had a handle that comes straight down. the 700 has a swept back design that is said to aid in opening the action. either bolt will fit either action. head spacing is the only limiting factor.

All after market scope bases should fit as the shape and whole spacing is the same as a Remington 700 Short action. I've used several myself and have never had a problem.

Standard velocity 22lr slow downs after about 14 inches so theres no need for anything longer than 16 to be legal if your going to use a scope. This info came from a test done over at Bench Rest Central. Now for me I still think 18 to 21 inch barrels still shoot better and I know others that feel the same. I know that's not scientific but is what I've obsered in matches.

To barrel I would go with one of the 22 bench rest guys as they will have the reamers and gear to install your barrel. I do my own so I don't have a favorite.

Any after market 700 trigger will work but the factory 40X trigger is plenty good so why screw with something that aint broke.

Depending on how your Gap is set up I would consider just using the factory barrel and have it cut down. The standard is close to a varmit profile and the heavy is just that and I've never seen a 40x that did not shoot well.

If you got anymore question feel feer to email. Donald

Don't flog me but the 721 is a long action. It's the 722 that was the short action that became the 700 short action and is the base action for the early 40x. I beg for forgiveness. Donald

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: Want to build a 40x trainer

There was an earlier thread about cutting down a long 40X 22LR barrel. The jist is that the bore of a factory barrel purposely narrows at the muzzle for accuracy. If you simply cut the barrel you may reduce the accuracy of the rifle. The remedy is to "slug" the barrel before you cut it to find where it narrows and where it opens up, and then to cut it so that the new muzzle occurs at a narrow part of the bore.

 

[LFOD1776]

Re: Want to build a 40x trainer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There was an earlier thread about cutting down a long 40X 22LR barrel. The jist is that the bore of a factory barrel purposely narrows at the muzzle for accuracy. If you simply cut the barrel you may reduce the accuracy of the rifle. The remedy is to "slug" the barrel before you cut it to find where it narrows and where it opens up, and then to cut it so that the new muzzle occurs at a narrow part of the bore.</div></div>

I didn't believe this, and cut down my 40-XB barrel simply to match my .308's barrel length. It just seems so unlikely to me that Remington would go through the kind of trouble required to create a Coke-bottle contour <span style="font-style: italic">inside</span> the barrel, that I assume it's just a myth.

I haven't had a chance to go out and shoot it since I did that, though. If it can't shoot well anymore I'll let you know.

 

[Kaisersose]

Re: Want to build a 40x trainer

If available would the stiller 25 be a viable option?

 

[donws2]

Re: Want to build a 40x trainer

Any whole drilled will almost always be larger at the entry point and smaller at the exit. That said most barrel blanks are marked as to which end is larger and used for the breech end of the gun. Now I've not seen much taper in a 40x barrel but anything is posible. I've also known of several that were cut back and not heard of any lose of accuracy. I have one cut at 20" and it shoots as well as a 28" full lenght barrel. So if you can air gage one or have it done go ahead but I don't think it will do much for you. Donald

 

[LFOD1776]

Re: Want to build a 40x trainer

I shot my trainer extensively today, and it shoots great.

With cheap Remington sub-sonic ammo, I was hitting pieces of clay birds at 100 yards. Like point and click.

Cutting my barrel without bothering to do the "slugging" thing didn't seem to hurt.

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: Want to build a 40x trainer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LFOD1776</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It just seems so unlikely to me that Remington would go through the kind of trouble required to create a Coke-bottle contour <span style="font-style: italic">inside</span> the barrel, that I assume it's just a myth. </div></div>
I presumed that the "Coke-bottle contour" was an artifact of drilling and rifling the bore, not an intentional contour.

 

[donws2]

Re: Want to build a 40x trainer

Dennis the term Standard Barrel and Heavy Barrel is what the CMP used to describe the 40x and 40xb when they had them for sale. Many have picked up the use of these to descrbe the rifles quickly if not completely correctly. As I said either bolt will work in either receiver as well as the barrel and stock as long as the clearence for the safety is made. You are correct about the safety for a 700 not fitting directly on a 722 receiver. I should have made that more clear. The triggers themselves though will pin and work on either with out mods but the safety only works on the trigger it is designed for and can not be made to work with the other as the trigger housings are predrilled for their on style of safety. Hope that helps to clear o up my earlier post. Donald

 

[donws2]

Re: Want to build a 40x trainer

None taken Dennis. I need all the help I can get. Nice looking rifles. How/where did you score the M40 stock? I missed on one not to long ago. At the time I thought it was to high. Big mistake. Donald

 

[Fishman7]

Re: Want to build a 40x trainer

SD so any of the 40X action will drop into a 700 SA stock inlet with mods to the saftey right ?
im looking at taking a std bbl 40x and eventually modding it to or as close as possible my Gap Crusader
i know i will pass the point of diminishing return on it but i want to build a trainer as colse to the real deal as possible
Same stock same optics very similar actions and trigger weight and pull
i know it may not be identical and even 2 Gap Crusaders side by side may differ slightly but i figure if i get close it will help with trigger time and acuracy when i get back on the big gun for distance

 

[n64atlas]

Re: Want to build a 40x trainer

Remington made 40X and 40XB in both standard and heavy barrel. CMP
advertised them as Standard and Heavy barrel 40X's. Some of the rifles had bolts not correct for the rifles. I have a 40XB with a 40X bolt. Have heard of others with 40X's and 40XB bolts. I have not heard of a 40XB standard barrel being sold by the CMP or a 40X heavy barrel either. There are civilian Standard and Heavy's of both rifles out there though.

 

[donws2]

Re: Want to build a 40x trainer

Dennis that's cool. You got to love it when you get lucky. And I learned something new to.


Fisherman7 you'll have no problem with your rifles. The sweep back is not on the whole bolt to start with and most stocks are over cut for the bolt because on custom larger bolt handles. If it does touch it will be in the rear and you just have to remove a 1/8 or so on material.

If you use the factory 40x trigger you may have to lower the stock just by the receiver because the top of the lever is lower than the later 40xb/700 safety.

Tell me how much over travel and the weight of your GAP and I'll try and set it close to what you have before I ship them. By the way I believe GAP uses current Remington 40X trigger in many of their rifles so the factory trigger will probly feel more like your GAP anyway. Anyway PM me at anytime or call.


N64atlas there were a few guns that came through the CMP with mismatch bolts, stocks and even barrels. At some time these rifles had been rebuilt or modifided to fill someone needs. I have several with cut down stocks and one with a cut down barrel as received from the CMP. I use to volunteer at CMP south when I was working in Atlanta years ago and saw many one off and strange stuff. I've still got a few friends that work there and they tell me most of the truely odd guns ends up on thier auction or stripped down for parts. The CMP themselves made alot of the 40x's with incorrect bolts trying to get them to headspace. I can state that for a fact as I saw it done. When the CMP got the weapons from the depot many of the rifles had been broken by the Civilians over there as they felt the CMP was taking jobs from them. Alot of new condition stocks broken at the wrist, sights broken off and bolts pulled out and thrown is the bottom to the Tri-wall boxes with a hundred or more rifles in each box. The CMP spent alot of time pulling broken screws and headspacing rifles because of this.

 

[Fishman7]

Re: Want to build a 40x trainer

Don the MO went out thursday honestly i dont know what the trigger will actually be
3-5 weeks more before she gets here
the build is a Standard GAP crusader on the Templar action 20" threaded other than that is a GAP standard rifle

the other stick is in transit i hope i picked up the SH #11 Gap rifle from the fine gentelman in Texas

the two guns i run right now are FN SPR's and 1 A4 and a unfire A2
but those will be finding new homes real soon being replaced by the GAp sticks

i do need to start to investigate scope a scope base and smith to do a BBL swap etc ...for the US marked 40X only
the US gov. marked will be left intact as a safe queen

any how i have lots to learn during this build

all i know right now is the NF F1 will be here this week and stand by waiting to be mounted

thanks again Don

 

[n64atlas]

Re: Want to build a 40x trainer

"The R model I have is a 24" barrel of a bit lighter contour then the standard heavy barrel, near identical in contour to the Varmint Special, VS, PSS etc barrels. I bought the R as a stripped barrel/receiver."

Never knew of that the CMP had some 40XR's, these would be very rare and more so if there are complete rifles out there that are US marked.
I have both the 40X and the 40XB. The XB has a 40X bolt.
According to "The Blue Book of Gun Values", both models had heavy and standard barrel versions. The 40X was made between 1955-1964. They called the Heavy barrel, the Target. It weighed in at 12 3/4 lbs. The standard was 10 3/4 lbs.
The 40XB was called the Rangemaster and came in both standard and heavy barrels. These were made from 1964-1974.
The 40XR version is still being made and started production in 1974. They come in the target version with either a wood or Kevlar stock and in a sporter version from the custom shop.
Nice find with the R version.

 

[Fishman7]

Re: Want to build a 40x trainer

whats the minimum BBL length you guys think is possible to still keep its acuracy i read somewhere 22 cal only required 17" or so to effectivly burn off all powder truth or fact

 

[donws2]

Re: Want to build a 40x trainer

Fishman7 From what I've read over at Bench Rest Central a Standard Velocity 22 will slow down at 14 to 16 inches. There was a huge thread over there about it some time ago. Several of the big name BR guys ran a bunch of different ammo through a couple barrels and started to cut them back one inch at a time. They came up with the numbers on the speed and also stated that accuracy with a match grade barrel started to go with barrels shorted than 18". But they did also say that not anyone barrel shot best at a given length. Or to say Brand A, B, and C did not all shot best at 19.5 or 21.0. Each barrel seemed to have its own sweet spot. When you find an ammo that shoots well buy all you can find. 22 guys are big time ammo whores.

Also, If you want I'll set the triggers to match my GAP 308 Crusader. That would be about 4lbs I think as I have not measured it and it has a small ammount of creep and over travel. The Crusader is more a Tactical set up than a BR so no creep at .5 lbs is not the best idea.

SD I've seen alot of the CMP guns and many are not marked US.
I've still got one myself and sold one several months ago. Also, I noticed that the S/N jump arround so I do not believe that this was a one time thing.