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Was Pearl Harbor used as bait?

Maggot

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood"
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Minuteman
  • Jul 27, 2007
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    This guy, and senior naval staff, felt Pearl was too vulnerable ,but they were all ignored and over ridden by Roosevelt. A few months later...boom. I'm not a historian on this but it seems plausible.

    James O. Richardson​

    1690647712719.png
    Wikipedia
    https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › James_O._Richardson




    James O. Richardson from en.wikipedia.org
    James Otto Richardson (18 September 1878 – 2 May 1974) was an admiral in the United States Navy who served from 1902 to 1947.
    Early life and career · ‎World War I and interwar years · ‎Pearl Harbor and aftermath
     
    There is quite a bit of evidence to support this, including ignored warnings and intelligence reports in the days and weeks leading up to it. It would be hard to disprove that they didn't know the attack was coming and did nothing to stop it.
     
    There is quite a bit of evidence to support this, including ignored warnings and intelligence reports in the days and weeks leading up to it. It would be hard to disprove that they didn't know the attack was coming and did nothing to stop it.
    IIRC, all the carriers were conveniently out of port.
     
    Pearl harbor was not bait. The US had a staunchly isolationist foreign policy at both public and governmental levels in the 1930’s. The series of decisions that were made by the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor are logical and straight forward. Because the Japanese were highly dependent on oil imports to fuel their navy and were under a US oil embargo due to their aggressive expansion policy, they sought to relieve the embargo pressure by removing the US naval presence in the pacific theater by destroying the few US aircraft carriers they thought were anchored in pearl harbor. It was a hail mary attempt to cripple the US’s projection of power, and failed spectacularly because all carriers thought to be anchored at Pearl Harbor at the day of the attack were absent. The japanese severely underestimated the US’s ability to mobilize their industry for a wartime effort, and it cost them the war. I highly recommend everyone listening to Dan Carlin’s “Supernova of the East” podcast series for an in depth and fascinating analysis of the Japanese perspective of WWII
     
    America was suffering from a decade of government caused extreme poverty. Perhaps this made people stupid enuf to buy into this.

    Yeah you're Damm right that Mr. "American troops will never fight on foreign soil" baited the Japanese into the Pearl Harbor attack.

    Next: Ask me if the traitor who gave Stalin Eastern Europe ever intended to pay the war bonus that he promised impoverished American kids to fight.
     
    Pearl harbor was not bait. The US had a staunchly isolationist foreign policy at both public and governmental levels in the 1930’s. The series of decisions that were made by the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor are logical and straight forward. Because the Japanese were highly dependent on oil imports to fuel their navy and were under a US oil embargo due to their aggressive expansion policy, they sought to relieve the embargo pressure by removing the US naval presence in the pacific theater by destroying the few US aircraft carriers they thought were anchored in pearl harbor. It was a hail mary attempt to cripple the US’s projection of power, and failed spectacularly because all carriers thought to be anchored at Pearl Harbor at the day of the attack were absent. The japanese severely underestimated the US’s ability to mobilize their industry for a wartime effort, and it cost them the war. I highly recommend everyone listening to Dan Carlin’s “Supernova of the East” podcast series for an in depth and fascinating analysis of the Japanese perspective of WWII
    I've listened to the entire series by Dan Carlin on WWII. Probably 60 hours total.

    That's textbook history. If you believe what the government approved textbooks say, you're not a very good hippie, hippy_steve.
     
    You really don't want to go looking into the history of what led up to WWI or WWII you might just find yourself a pariah as you understand what all the Jingoistic "good folks" don't want to ever hear.

    You might also wind up having a fair bit of hatred for the British government tricking and lying and propagandizing so they could get folks from all around the world sent to die in their little family spats and their little empire keeping operation.

    You study the history of wars and our country a bit too much including looking at it from the other side of what we do all around the world currently to anyone not one of our puppet states, and well folks accuse you of being "unpatriotic"...

    Then you understand that war, for hundreds of years has been waged to let the Global Elites gain control of the wealth of the planet and control over the governments of the planet and is still waged to make more money for the Elites and ensure their control and their global slavery agenda is fulfilled. Then you get called a hater and a conspiracy theorist...
     
    I was just watching a documentary on the development of the B-29 and it was mentioned that Boeing was hesitant to take on the project because of how "risky" government projects were back then. It was said that Boeing lost money on the B-17 (probably before they were needed in the war). Back then the military industrial complex wasn't what people know today. I understood that the massive war production effort during ww2 is what built it. Eisenhower warned about the MIC later when he left office. I've also heard that there was plenty of profiteering during the first world war and it was also an industrialized war effort.

    Oh and the B-29 project cost an extra 30% over what the atomic bomb did.
     
    Pearl harbor was not bait. The US had a staunchly isolationist foreign policy at both public and governmental levels in the 1930’s. The series of decisions that were made by the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor are logical and straight forward. Because the Japanese were highly dependent on oil imports to fuel their navy and were under a US oil embargo due to their aggressive expansion policy, they sought to relieve the embargo pressure by removing the US naval presence in the pacific theater by destroying the few US aircraft carriers they thought were anchored in pearl harbor. It was a hail mary attempt to cripple the US’s projection of power, and failed spectacularly because all carriers thought to be anchored at Pearl Harbor at the day of the attack were absent. The japanese severely underestimated the US’s ability to mobilize their industry for a wartime effort, and it cost them the war. I highly recommend everyone listening to Dan Carlin’s “Supernova of the East” podcast series for an in depth and fascinating analysis of the Japanese perspective of WWII

    Someone more cynical might suggest that Evil FDR wanted to drag the Americans into the war despite promising the opposite
    (Exactly like one of the most evil presidents Wilson).
    The British were once again going to do anything and everything to get the Americans into the war, despite the Germans actually not wanting to originally go to war with England.
    The British are thought to have cracked the Japanese codes WAY earlier than they admit to and probably knew way in advance what was going to happen.

    Evil warmongers in both governments would have had reason to arrange to have the carriers just so happen to go out for a sail and leave the old outdated battleships at dock nice and easy and make sure they were fully crewed to "create the incitement"...

    Perhaps that's not what happened...
     
    Then you understand that war, for hundreds of years has been waged to let the Global Elites gain control of the wealth of the planet and control over the governments of the planet and is still waged to make more money for the Elites and ensure their control and their global slavery agenda is fulfilled. Then you get called a hater and a conspiracy theorist...
    Cheney = Iraq
     
    I had learned along the way that Pearl Harbor was a LIHOP. (Let It Happen On Purpose.) We had cracked the code of the japanese weeks before the Pearl Harbor attack. We knew they had the harbor as a target. We could have stopped it preemptively. So, yes, there is truth that Japan was wanting to attack. What was not dicussed in the official histories was that we knew approximately when the attack would happen.

    Japan always had the choice to not do it. So, we did not engineer it and I don't know that it was bait but yes, I think there was strategic maneuvering of resources.

    As a sidenote, I have a noticed a paucity of airliner hijackings since 9/11.
     
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    Maybe we shouldn't have sent a nice big gunship to force Japan to "open up" to the western world for commerce some time earlier.
    Perhaps letting the evil that was Japan at the time stay isolated from the world for an extra 50 or so years might have been a good idea and might have saved a lot of lives.

    Japan back in the day wanted to be left alone to be brutal, barbaric and evil in their own way.
    But nope, the merchant class demanded the western governments use force to make sure the merchants could get rich.

    It would have been much better to let Japan stay isolated and backwards for an extra 50 years or so.

    Folks in the rest of the world didn't have a clue exactly how evil and brutal the Japanese actually were.
     
    Maybe we shouldn't have sent a nice big gunship to force Japan to "open up" to the western world for commerce some time earlier.
    Perhaps letting the evil that was Japan at the time stay isolated from the world for an extra 50 or so years might have been a good idea and might have saved a lot of lives.

    Japan back in the day wanted to be left alone to be brutal, barbaric and evil in their own way.
    But nope, the merchant class demanded the western governments use force to make sure the merchants could get rich.

    It would have been much better to let Japan stay isolated and backwards for an extra 50 years or so.

    Folks in the rest of the world didn't have a clue exactly how evil and brutal the Japanese actually were.
    They FAFO.
     
    Na I personally don’t believe the carriers where moved because of some greater scheme. Someone who has done more research, could probably find out what maneuvers or when they were scheduled. You could probably prove that.

    Yes people were aware that tension was rising but no direct knowledge of the specifics of the coming attack. Japan went to great effort to keep this move quite.

    There was actually a wire from DC that didn’t arrive till after the attack to high-ten alert, as that morning Japan officially cut ties on negotiation, signaling there’s only one other option… it was a few hours late. You know they don’t have a modern communication like we do today.

    While yes they used it as a look at these fuckers they attacked us let’s go fuck them up thing, I don’t think they tricked everyone into being caught of guard.

    But yeah they knew shit was on the brink of popping off. Just not the specific of when where. The way I see it is if they had this knowledge of the comming attack they would have flank’d those carriers like they did at Midway and ended that shit.
     
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    Na I personally don’t believe the carriers where moved because of some greater scheme. Someone who has done more research, could probably find out what maneuvers or when they were scheduled. You could probably prove that.

    Yes people were aware that tension was rising but no direct knowledge of the specifics of the coming attack. Japan went to great effort to keep this move quite.

    There was actually a wire from DC that didn’t arrive till after the attack to high-ten alert, as that morning Japan officially cut ties on negotiation, signaling there’s only one other option… it was a few hours late. You know they don’t have a modern communication like we do today.

    While yes they used it as a look at these fuckers they attacked us let’s go fuck them up thing, I don’t think they tricked everyone into being caught of guard.

    But yeah they knew shit was on the brink of popping off. Just not the specific of when where. The way I see it is if they had this knowledge of the comming attack they would have flank’d those carriers like they did at Midway and ended that shit.
    Everything happens for a reason.
    In addition, the truth always comes out in the end.
     
    You really don't want to go looking into the history of what led up to WWI or WWII you might just find yourself a pariah as you understand what all the Jingoistic "good folks" don't want to ever hear.

    You might also wind up having a fair bit of hatred for the British government tricking and lying and propagandizing so they could get folks from all around the world sent to die in their little family spats and their little empire keeping operation.

    You study the history of wars and our country a bit too much including looking at it from the other side of what we do all around the world currently to anyone not one of our puppet states, and well folks accuse you of being "unpatriotic"...

    Then you understand that war, for hundreds of years has been waged to let the Global Elites gain control of the wealth of the planet and control over the governments of the planet and is still waged to make more money for the Elites and ensure their control and their global slavery agenda is fulfilled. Then you get called a hater and a conspiracy theorist...
    I will continue to think critically. My thought process is not dumbed down.
    I care not of what thought of me.
    God bless The United States For America
     
    It seems like a pretty long list these days of "Was XXX used as bait"
     
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    Everything happens for a reason.
    In addition, the truth always comes out in the end.
    Again they knew leaning on Japan would provoke a reaction.

    And look were it got them. Foot hold in Korea, a few years in China multiple islands across the Pacific.

    And were the “victims” too.
     
    Someone more cynical might suggest that Evil FDR wanted to drag the Americans into the war despite promising the opposite
    (Exactly like one of the most evil presidents Wilson).
    The British were once again going to do anything and everything to get the Americans into the war, despite the Germans actually not wanting to originally go to war with England.
    The British are thought to have cracked the Japanese codes WAY earlier than they admit to and probably knew way in advance what was going to happen.

    Evil warmongers in both governments would have had reason to arrange to have the carriers just so happen to go out for a sail and leave the old outdated battleships at dock nice and easy and make sure they were fully crewed to "create the incitement"...

    Perhaps that's not what happened...
    I read years ago that the Japanese Naval Ciphers were cracked by the US way before the Diplomatic/Purple cypher and CINCUS-PAC Richardson had access to them till he was relieved and that cypher section was then relocated to DC and its product restricted to the SECNAV. There were also three Radar Stations on the three possible IJN approaches to Hawaii that were ordered dis-established when Richardson was cashiered and THAT is why the "mobile" van based radar on Hawaii was the "thing". Kimmel was being set up ahead of time during the transition. It has been alleged that Mountbatten's "Tour" of Pearl Harbor is where the Japanese got their pace counts and more specific targeting information as Hirohito has been a Knight of the Garter and was much more intimately involved in all the aspects of the War then Dugout Doug made part of Post-War History. As to the Carriers there have been "stories" that USS Arizona was moved to its final resting place to replace a carrier that had been there till several days before, and which had left its birthing with a wink and nod. Japanese informants in Pearl sent confirmation that the carriers were in Pearl and this was one of the pre-requisites for the strike. Later "orders and cover stories" were retroactively created to provide cover for what was a CO and Command Structure that didn't agree with orders from on High to sacrifice another ship. This review of "Day of Deception" from Amazon is a great overview, "
    FC
    5.0 out of 5 stars Pearl Coverup Finally Revealed, Mostly.
    Reviewed in the United States on September 15, 2013
    Verified Purchase
    Reflecting a tremendous amount of work digging out original communications documents, previously classified and made available under FOIA, although over a half century later many still remain secret, the author shows that FDR and his minions did maneuver to provoke Japan into an attack against the US and also ordered the Pearl Harbor commanders into passivity as bait to amplify the carnage and enrage Americans. The author makes a strong well documented case. To think otherwise is to deny the authenticity of the declassified documents.

    The US had been monitoring, decoding, and translating Japanese diplomatic and military communications since the early 1920s and by 1941 had twenty-two listening stations arranged around the Pacific Ocean including RDF as well as several different decrypting centers, one of which, HYPO, was located on Oahu itself. FDR was reading secret Japanese messages daily, almost as rapidly as their intended recipients, for over a year before Pearl Harbor and right up until Dec 7 and beyond!

    Japan had been marauding through east Asia for years and had been planning for an eventual war with the USA for decades. Surprise attacks were their forte ever since their defeat of the Russian Navy at Tsushima in 1905, a victory that dominated Japanese naval doctrine and belief in the "decisive battle" ever since. A cynic might say that all FDR did was manipulate them into a first strike on the US in order to unify public opinion.

    CDR Arthur McCollum of the ONI, an expert on Japan and its culture, was the author of the eight-point strategy written in 1940 to provoke Japan to war; he conceived and FDR implemented the deception. Cutting off Japan's sources of oil and other raw materials was part of it. Another was relocating the US fleet from the west coast of the US to the exposed Hawaii. ADM Richardson, commander of the Pacific fleet, strongly objected. He was relieved and replaced by the more compliant ADM Kimmel. LTG Short commanded Army and Air units on Oahu.

    LCDR Joseph Rochefort, in charge of HYPO, was a longtime colleague and friend of McCollum. His intercepts went directly to FDR and thirty-five others. FDR ordered Rochefort to cut both Kimmel and Short out of the intercept loop starting two weeks prior to Dec 7. Then Kimmel was actually ordered not to patrol Oahu and Short was actually ordered not to go on full alert. FDR, knowing full well that Pearl would be attacked on Dec 7, in an eleventh hour act of gratuitous duplicity, sent a message directly to Hirohito. This was simply to help make a case for plausible deniability, an odious political practice. Adding insult to injury, both Kimmel and Short were made the scapegoats for the disaster.

    After the war Rochefort was quoted, "It was a pretty cheap price to pay for unifying the country." Would the 2,500 men killed at Pearl that day, and the 2,000 more killed at Wake and Guam agree?

    It is reprehensible that an elected government of a constitutional republic would stealthily betray its own citizens, an act of morally repugnant depravity more typical of a despotic tyranny."
     
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    There was a great article about a Naval SIGINT Officer(LTC McCollum) I believe in Manila in 1940 who was who discovered the mutual assistance treaty between Germany and Japan... written about in some WW2 magazine I read years ago, which FDR and the Anglo-NWO used to get Japan to attack us by provoking them with the oil and steel embargoes before Pearl Harbor. This was also necessary because the US public was so isolationist and a huge portion of the American Industrialists were pro-NAZI( Brown Brothers Harrimann had subsidized the National Socialist Party since 1919, [just as they had done for Lenin and Stalin and the Bolsheviks and later Mao and the Chinese Communist Part] requiring all their German subsidiary companies to require NAZI membership for employees and hiring the National Socialist as their "Union" to provide HR and manpower scheduling etc. this is all covered in Chapters 1 and 2 in Webster Tarpley's Unauthorized Biography of George H. Bush which is free to read on his website linked, Tarpley.net.
     
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    Pearl harbor was not bait. The US had a staunchly isolationist foreign policy at both public and governmental levels in the 1930’s. The series of decisions that were made by the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor are logical and straight forward. Because the Japanese were highly dependent on oil imports to fuel their navy and were under a US oil embargo due to their aggressive expansion policy, they sought to relieve the embargo pressure by removing the US naval presence in the pacific theater by destroying the few US aircraft carriers they thought were anchored in pearl harbor. It was a hail mary attempt to cripple the US’s projection of power, and failed spectacularly because all carriers thought to be anchored at Pearl Harbor at the day of the attack were absent. The japanese severely underestimated the US’s ability to mobilize their industry for a wartime effort, and it cost them the war. I highly recommend everyone listening to Dan Carlin’s “Supernova of the East” podcast series for an in depth and fascinating analysis of the Japanese perspective of WWII
    There were voices in Japan that went unheeded about US industrial power. The man that designed the AM6 fighter had been to the US and a couple other countries as an engineering student. Himself and others said quite bluntly that a conflict with the US would end in failure due to the US having a massive industrial and engineering advantage.