Update #2..I think my can is messed up…Weird day at range

[Pickle Rick]

Update #2 FML

Two different rifles with different brakes

Turns out the supressor was the issue, not the rifle or scope. BUT - there are no baffle strikes on supressor. Like none at all. Holes in papers are all round. None unstable. It still is only happening with supers, not subs. Barrel is still free floated with supressor on. What gives?



new (gen 1) ruger American ranch 300blk. Subs shot pretty dang well. The issue is that I was double grouping with supers REAL bad. Like 7 moa in fact with two different handloads

1. Everything is properly torqued
2. Sandman S (no baffle strikes)
3. Purely horizontal
4. Subs shot good groups
5. Checked free-float, good
6 two different handloads (both did it)
7 about 50 rounds through it

The first thing I thought of was the stock hitting barrel. I took special care to ensure I wasn’t loading the stock. I think the issue is that I’m doing something wrong, but I don’t know what. This is my only bolt action without a chassis and have never gotten results quite like this.

 

[BCP]

7moa would be 7 inches apart at 100 yards. Scope problems?

 

[ShtrRdy]

If it works fine with the sub-sonic ammo that would tell me the rifle and scope are fine. That leaves your hand loads as suspect. To get that sort of separation between shots the barrel muzzle is really moving when the bullet is launched. You need to try some other powder charge weights to see if you can find a sweet spot.

 

[Partsunavailable]

I see stuff like this and people always suggest the ammo. Honest question, how bad would ammo have to be to group at 7 frickin inches! Like, would you put half the bullets in backwards? Id go with a rifle problem. First id look for a loose base or rings.

 

[DHDeal]

Kinda need more information on the loads. Both Supers and Subs. Did you fire both same day? You have only fired 50 through the rifle or 50 rounds during that session?

I should mention I have one too and if anything it prefers supers but not by a large margin. I use a Nomad 30 exclusively (after making sure subs were stable when it was new). Mime has a Timney and some other stuff done but it shot pretty decent before anything was done.

What scope while you're telling us the loads that you're referring to.

 

[Heretic]

Action screws? Using bipod? Bags?

 

[Pickle Rick]

19.5gr H110 Sierra 115gr HP
18.6gr H110 Speer 130gr HP
Both with WSR
Brass is brand new starline but I ran expander ball through the necks and then a light crimp.
Vortex 3-9x crossfire 2
All screws are torqued via Wheeler torque wrench.
Subs were both Berry’s 200 and 220 with Lil Gun.

Check out the bore. These were taken before I shot it, when it was brand new.

 

[Pickle Rick]

7moa would be 7 inches apart at 100 yards. Scope problems?

That would make sense but I shot 20 subs after the supers and they all grouped. I thought I was going crazy when I was trying to zero it for supers.

 

[Pickle Rick]

Action screws? Using bipod? Bags?

Action screws are at 60 in-lbs. using a Caldwell adjustable front rest.

 

[Pickle Rick]

I see stuff like this and people always suggest the ammo. Honest question, how bad would ammo have to be to group at 7 frickin inches! Like, would you put half the bullets in backwards? Id go with a rifle problem. First id look for a loose base or rings.

It was two different types too.

 

[DHDeal]

OK. FWIW, I also use the Sierra Varminteer (115 grain) but my load is 19 grains H110, CCI 400/550, and Starline. With my RAR it is accurate to 300 (farthest I shoot the RAR). That bullet has always performed well in mine. I don't think that is your problem. The heaviest "super" I use is either a 125 grain ProHunter or GameChanger. They both shoot just as well.

Your bore isn't pretty but mine is no Bartlein either. Depending on the barrel I will Iosso it before ever firing. I mainly worked on the leade/throat. I don't waste my time doing this on a lapped barrel but did do it to my RAR. Like I said, mine was not pretty either but it didn't expect it to be a beauty (you probably didn't either). I probably have 500 rounds through it now and it doesn't foul any worse than any others.

With such a substantial difference between subs and supers and knowing the supersonic loads, like Partsunavailable mentioned, I suspect the rifle/scope. I get where you shot some subs after and they grouped. Unless you have already tried it, shoot the supers again without the suppressor. For the heck of it, drop your charge to 19 grains with the 115's and load to magazine length (in mine that is 2300 fps). If no improvement, swap scopes after checking mount/ring tightness. Worst case call Ruger.

Regardless, continue to let us know. I don't see an obvious problem without having the rifle in front of me.

 

[stanley_white]

Try again, both loads, no muzzle device.

-Stan

 

[Terry Cross]

@Pickle Rick
Just to remove one potential issue, swap scopes and repeat with just the supers.

You could have a scope issue. Subs will have less recoil than the supers. Perhaps the supers are shaking things enough to expose a scope issue?

It would be quick and easy thing to check. Wouldn't cost anything and the results are going to be clearly positive or negative immediately.

I don't think the issue is with your ammo. I would want to guess something mechanical showing its ass before the bullet leaves the barrel.

.

 

[hero's machine]

My general rule of thumb is any shift in accuracy above 3ish moa is typically optics related.

 

[Pickle Rick]

I’m going to send the scope in to vortex just to check. In the meantime I’ll throw a red dot on it and have some fun

 

[Slides]

I had shift like that with loose rail screws on a rifle.

 

[Rio Precision Gunworks]

Agreed with above. Just because X ammo didn't seem to move things on the rifle doesn't mean Y won't.

It's not uncommon for lighter recoiling rounds to move things less or just dumb luck that different boxes of ammo don't exhibit the shift.

 

[Hoser]

Berrys plated bullets? I would not expect anything decent past 25 yards with them.

 

[Pickle Rick]

Berrys plated bullets? I would not expect anything decent past 25 yards with them.

No the supers are jacketed. The Berrys subs are great at 50 though.

 

[fdkay]

I remember when 300 BO first became a thing (yes, I'm aware of the whisper).
Savage refused to make one, their statement was that if you made the supers shoot good, the subs wouldn't and vice versa.
It was one or the other.

 

[Baron23]

there are no baffle strikes on supressor. Like none at all.

And you confirmed this with a bore scope?

I ask because from the experience of a good friend of mine, a very, very light baffle strike is sometimes quite hard to see with the naked eye...or even an eye in a three piece suit (sorry, couldn't help myself).

And from these VERY light grazing strikes, he was getting impacts up to 5-7 feet from POA. 7"....might be the tiniest of strikes, no?

Glad you found it...in my friend's case, it resulted from a very minor amount of run out on an adapter he was using and a very, very minor amount of run out on the barrel shoulder. Added up to this grazing strike. Then we both bought alignment rods from
Griffin. Way cheaper than a suppressor.

 

[Pickle Rick]

And you confirmed this with a bore scope?

I ask because from the experience of a good friend of mine, a very, very light baffle strike is sometimes quite hard to see with the naked eye...or even an eye in a three piece suit (sorry, couldn't help myself).

And from these VERY light grazing strikes, he was getting impacts up to 5-7 feet from POA. 7"....might be the tiniest of strikes, no?

Glad you found it...in my friend's case, it resulted from a very minor amount of run out on an adapter he was using and a very, very minor amount of run out on the barrel shoulder. Added up to this grazing strike. Then we both bought alignment rods from
Griffin. Way cheaper than a suppressor.

Yea I took my borescope to it for a good 20 minutes. You could still be right though. If it is striking baffle it’s not much. I wish I could rent one of those rods somewhere lol Yours alignment rod doesnt happen to be in 30cal does it?

 

[hero's machine]

You could try to sharpie a bullet. It's easy to see on target, perhaps it'll show up on the baffle.

 

[Baron23]

Yea I took my borescope to it for a good 20 minutes. You could still be right though. If it is striking baffle it’s not much. I wish I could rent one of those rods somewhere lol Yours alignment rod doesnt happen to be in 30cal does it?

Sorry, no. .264.

But they are worth the $65 or so for one.

Best of luck and thanks for the reply.

 

[Pickle Rick]

I remember when 300 BO first became a thing (yes, I'm aware of the whisper).
Savage refused to make one, their statement was that if you made the supers shoot good, the subs wouldn't and vice versa.
It was one or the other.

And you confirmed this with a bore scope?

I ask because from the experience of a good friend of mine, a very, very light baffle strike is sometimes quite hard to see with the naked eye...or even an eye in a three piece suit (sorry, couldn't help myself).

And from these VERY light grazing strikes, he was getting impacts up to 5-7 feet from POA. 7"....might be the tiniest of strikes, no?

Glad you found it...in my friend's case, it resulted from a very minor amount of run out on an adapter he was using and a very, very minor amount of run out on the barrel shoulder. Added up to this grazing strike. Then we both bought alignment rods from
Griffin. Way cheaper than a suppressor.

Just ordered the Geisselle alignment rod from optics planet.

 

[Hawk in WY]

A loose suppressor or the suppressor cover sliding forward will do that for me.