Growing up we media tumbled what a mess. Then we got a sonic cleaner big improvement. Now I got a wet tumbler and wow night and day difference looks like brand new cases.
- Thread starter Remman13
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Be aware that making sparkly clean cases causes the bullets to stick to the brass over time, making velocity spreads wider. Couple tricks you will find on here are to lube inside necks with graphite before loading bullets, or load the cartridge over your desired length and reseat the bullets to correct depth a day before you go shooting.
Pretty brass is not worth the issues wet tumbling can cause. Fight with sticky necks for a while and you’ll learn to love your dusty brass!
Thanks...I'll have to watch for sticky necks
Keep up with wet, see how you like it without steelchip media though. You may be satisfied with that which makes it even easier. It’s a trend I’ve noticed developing on the forum.
Thanks for the info
Just wondering would brand new brass have the same problem? Because I have never noticed a difference in accuracy,sd,es with new brass
process of elimination
Serious questions,
1) why does the "stickiness" increase over time?
2) purpose of re-seating a day prior to shooting is doing what exactly?
3) would the same thing happen with brand new brass bought off the shelf instead of using recovered brass?
Copper and brass sit pretty close on the galvanic chart. I really don't see a case of dissimilar metal corrosion over time. Maybe galling during seating, I could possibly agree with. I also will buy the theory that internal lube of some sort (graphite, or left over carbon from previous firing) could possibly make it easier for the bullet separate from case during a 40000+ PSI push from behind. Help me to understand what the theory is here, as I think I've also heard this referred to as bullet weld.
Shhhhh.......you're interjecting logic into gun forum myths.
Shhhhh.............you're applying logic, chemistry, and physics to internet gun forum lore.
We cannot have that.
Not apples to apples because new brass is polished which cuts down on friction. When you strip the surface of brass and then dry it it’s going to create a lot more friction than a polished surface would. This is why one answer to wet tumbling issues is to dry tumble/polish for a short time after drying the cases.
Even so a lot of it depends on what is “normal” to you. I know what optimal neck tension feels like when I seat a bullet. I expand necks on most new brass because it has way too much neck tension if I don’t. Usually the mandrel is really difficult to get in and out because the new brass is so clean. Even when I have to expand fired brass significantly, the mandrel goes in and out easily because a layer of carbon keeps friction down.
Would dipping a bullet in graphite, at the time of seating, have the same affect as coating the inside of the case neck before seating?
Wet tumble is all I’ve known and I’ve never had an issue with SDs.
I also don’t buy into the sticky neck theory.
New brass works just fine, and I seriously doubt a bullet is affected one iota by not lubing a case neck that is blown open at 60,000 psi.
I also don’t buy into the sticky neck theory.
New brass works just fine, and I seriously doubt a bullet is affected one iota by not lubing a case neck that is blown open at 60,000 psi.
Here we go again.
Unless you measure the force it takes to seat a bullet to a consistent location, your feel is BS. I'm an engineer, and a lot of people here are either same or are in professions where data matters and feelings don't mean a thing. We don't care how something feels. We care how something IS, and we care even more what effect something has on the end result. That's why full factorial experiments are useful. They show you how much influence each variable that you test for has on the system output. Full factorial experiments also let you test more than one variable at once (something I'm told is impossible) but I digress.
Did you feel 30 lbs of force to seat the bullet? Or did you feel 32? Or did you feel 50? Did that difference matter to accuracy? How do you know? What other factors could cause MV variation and did you isolate them out?
What if you wet tumble without SS pins? What if you wet tumble for 30 min instead of two hours?
Reloading is probably THE number 1 repository of bullshit and old wives tales in the gun world.
My strategy has "evolved" on this. After wrestling with the mess of steel media, I've gone to wet-tumbling without media (only Frankford Arsenal Cleaning Packets) and my results are terrific. My sequence is:
- Decap
- Wet tumble
- Anneal
- Lube
- FL Size
- Mandrel neck
- Trim (if necessary)
- Wet Tumble
- Seat
- Shoot
I've done dry tumbling for years and I don't see where the mess is?
Throw the dirty cases in, add white rice and a little corn polish media, tumble for 4-10hrs depending on how dirty or tarnished. When I'm done, I keep the machine running, and turn it upside down into a 5g bucket and let the tumbler tumble all the media out (my tumbler has open slots in the top). Works great and is cheap and I don't have to dry shit.
This is what I've done before with new brass. Personally I "felt" it made bullet seating smoother. I think after 10's of thousands of rounds you get a "feel" for what is normal and what isn't. On new brass for my 6.5 it felt smoother. But like @308pirate said...does it actually make any kind of difference? No fucking idea lol. I have 223 rounds from 8 years ago that fired fine the other day....granted, this wasn't for precision, but still.
To each their own... without firearm lore... WHAT THE HELL WOULD THERE BE TO ARGUE ABOUT ON HERE?!
I wish I could say with 100% confidence what the physical process is that caused my issues, but I don't know. Had some ammo that sat for a few months, normally that load would have SD of 15. Accuracy was all over at 800 yards so i put my magneto speed on. It went to 60~. I stopped shooting it and pulled the bullets to see if my charges drifted on the scale or something. Normally I can smack it out with one low power hit if I pull shortly after loading. These required I put my whole strength into getting them out.
I tried to search if anyone else had this issue. This topic came up in relation to wet tumbling to sparkly clean brass. I did a test where I made a batch of 100 and shot 50 the next day. Waited month to shoot the rest. After waiting my SD was not as low.
Seems that some people have zero issues and others it's problematic. If your ammo works for your needs then don't worry about it.
There could be other factors but wet tumbling to clean cases has been a common mention for this kind of problem.
I tried this. Graphite scrapes off as the bullet seats. End up with a ring of it sitting on the case mouth. I've been using those dry lube ceramic media kits to dip my case necks in and quickly wipe the neck with a paper towel. I don't do massive amounts of loading so it only adds a few minutes to my session.
Factory new brass is not polished to the same degree as stainless tumbling polishes brass. It is however coated with wax which does put a layer of material between the neck and the billet and that does prevent cold welding.
Cold-soldering of electro tin-plated bullets in military 30-06 necks (in 1922) is covered in detail in Hatcher's Notebook starting on page 344. The Army prohibited the manufacture and use of these due to the potential for catastrophic pressure failure in Springfield rifles.
My guess is a number of people take this as gospel for all jacketed bullets in clean, modern brass cases almost a century later. Modern military ammo uses a waterproof sealant, while commercial bullets (including monolithic solids) don't because modern gilding metal (copper, zinc, and a fraction of tin) don't necessarily/usually cold-weld.
I'm sure it would be more common-place if it happened today. People all over the world would be blowing up their guns and faces -- especially using surplus ammo sealed up for decades.
My guess is a number of people take this as gospel for all jacketed bullets in clean, modern brass cases almost a century later. Modern military ammo uses a waterproof sealant, while commercial bullets (including monolithic solids) don't because modern gilding metal (copper, zinc, and a fraction of tin) don't necessarily/usually cold-weld.
I'm sure it would be more common-place if it happened today. People all over the world would be blowing up their guns and faces -- especially using surplus ammo sealed up for decades.
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You’re exaggerating.
What we are talking about is not a bullet “welded” to to the neck in the traditional sense. What we are talking about is additional stickiness beyond the regular friction due to neck tension. This additional stickiness causes an increase in pressure ES and SD.
What we are talking about is not a bullet “welded” to to the neck in the traditional sense. What we are talking about is additional stickiness beyond the regular friction due to neck tension. This additional stickiness causes an increase in pressure ES and SD.
What wax is used from the factory?
Would sure be nice to talk to someone from a brass manufacturing facility to ask what are the differences
The top flat range shooters in the world abandoned wet with little steel sticks several years back. Many issues, one of which is your brass is covered with hundreds of little dents.
Walnut media (bird cage litter) and the cheapest Turtle Wax Cleaner/Wax liquid from Walmart you can find makes short work of case cleaning and the wax keeps the dust and mess down.
Walnut media (bird cage litter) and the cheapest Turtle Wax Cleaner/Wax liquid from Walmart you can find makes short work of case cleaning and the wax keeps the dust and mess down.
Walnut plus NuFinish plus a half drier sheet. No dust.
What else could be the cause, and please don’t do the statistical significance crap.
I tried dipping my case necks in graphite this week for the first time. All I cans say is the bullets seated so much easier to the point that I though there may have been something wrong with my neck tension. I annealed, dry tumbled with walnut shell, mineral spirits and drier sheet then FL sized, mandrel expanded, dipped in the ceramic beads with graphite. By far the best and smoothest seating I have experienced.
308Pirate made a good point that we are unable to quantify this experience without proper measuring tools etc., but my anecdotal experience here provides me with more confidence in my loading efforts. The downside is getting black graphite shit all over everything lol.
308Pirate made a good point that we are unable to quantify this experience without proper measuring tools etc., but my anecdotal experience here provides me with more confidence in my loading efforts. The downside is getting black graphite shit all over everything lol.
I don’t know. I suspect carnauba.
I agree. I use an US cleaner with Lemishine and then a tumbler with walnut media and NuFinish. Brass comes out almost looking like need. Just how shiny do you need it?
Look closely at cases cleaned with steel pins and you will see the tiny dents. This results in work hardening. Also, you should be examining every case to make sure there are no pins stuck in the case neck and/or primer pocket. All it takes is to miss just one pin. I don't have that kinda time.
anything can be messy if you don't try and make it cleaner , neater and easier .
With that few cases in the giganta Dillon what did he expect?
You have to "Load" corn with brass and it works fine.
If I wet tumble, it is without pins and I use Brass Juice. Works good, doesn't get it too clean, and I don't have to separate pins from my brass.
I tried warm water dawn soap , lemi shine and two quirts of jet dry and my brass in an hour looked like someone had polished it with braso just sparkling all pretty like glistening in the sunlight till dryed with zero spots and the cement mixer smells lemony fresh still lol
I dry tumble with walnut / nufinish / mineral spirits.
Deprime and tumble, work the brass, tumble and load.
The bullets seat with little pressure no lube needed.
The wax did that job and protects from tarnishing / corrosion
No steel pins or ceramic balls to worry about.
I’ll speak up here, 260 rem Norma brass, once fired, dry tumbled, re loaded with a 136 scenar on top. Let it sit for over a year, got a new barrel and bullet needed to be pushed back a bit so it wouldn’t be jammed into the lands. Tried pushing it back .030 with my Redding micro seater, and it would not budge. Deformed the bullet before it would push it back at all. Had to use an inertia hammer to break the bond on that whole lot of ammo before I could push them back.
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