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What’s the hardest part of precision Loading

blaserman33

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Minuteman
May 23, 2011
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Being somewhat new to precision reloading I was thinking about the never ending list of variables that go into creating good loads and it made me curious about what more experienced loaders thought was the hardest part of making good ammo so I figured I would start a little poll.

So, what do you all find is the hardest part of creating a good load? Is it getting accurate powder charges? Is it finding & keeping the right COAL? Is it getting consistent sizing? Consistent neck tension? What do you find is most difficult? And how did you fix that problem?
 
Right now the hardest part is getting the components

Otherwise the thing it requires most is time and patience. None of it is hard with good components and tools but it can be time consuming with loading and testing. Doing some research and loading with someone experienced will make it turn into a fun past time and you’ll enjoy all of it

Find a load that shoots well with decent ES/SD. Beyond this I’ll say neck tension when your several loads in. Fixed by first using dies that won’t overwork the brass. Then annealing
 
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The hardest part for me is deciding how much is enough. Do I really need to neck turn? Does runout really matter? Should I spend the time to sort brass? Can I get by with my current press, or should I upgrade? If I miss off the left edge of a target, will I blame myself for not spending $600 on a primer seater? Could my annealer setup be better?

Those that have been much further down that road than me have almost uniformly concluded that enough is way less than most people think.
 
The replies so far is exactly what made me think of starting this thread, cause I couldn’t think of the ONE thing. Usually you want to identify the problems and tackle them in order of importance, but you really can’t with loading. You can’t do one thing really well, and another not so well, or you don’t get accuracy!
 
the nice thing about shooting your own reloads is that it is always 100% your fault, and correctable (in theory, within reason).

/being ocd, it is probably a blessing that i shoot cheap m80 factory ammo and don't really need anything better than fgmm. :p
 
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Your components will be the biggest factor in your setup. Both the ammo itself and reloading components.

High quality brass is the base

Bullets known for consistency like Berger, Sierra or Hornady ELD are good starting points

CCI/Federal primers

Certain cartridges prefer certain components in my experience. I’ve seen a lot of 308’s running IMR4064 or varget, Lapua brass, CCI 200 or federal primers, Berger or SMK bullets.

Same for 300’s running H1000 or H4350 etc

If you select components known to shoot well in your caliber choice you’ll have a lot of info available from other loaders and it will be much easier to find a node

If you don’t have a decent chronograph that should get added to the list as well

I’ll add some obvious points. Don’t mix brass (test with the same brass you’ll be using for the life of the barrel/load) Also, try to buy everything in like lot numbers. You’ll notice things like bearing surfaces on bullets will vary between lots of the same bullets. Berger has been the most consistent for me. Hornady has been the least of the 3 I listed above
 
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Well... importance and difficulty are different things. If I had to pick the most important thing, it would be good measuring devices: powder scale and calipers. Those are not difficult, except maybe paying for them. I think those are the most important because they control the things that everyone agrees matter, and they do so objectively and scientifically.
 
So, what do you all find is the hardest part of creating a good load? Is it getting accurate powder charges? Is it finding & keeping the right COAL? Is it getting consistent sizing? Consistent neck tension? What do you find is most difficult? And how did you fix that problem?
The realization that for certain things, there just is no "easy way", no shortcuts, nothing to buy... it can be a bitter pill.

When I first got into precision reloading I tried to cut every corner I could... there was no way I was going to be one of those guys who was going to go through every little dumb step it took to prep brass and such. I was just going pump out awesome shit no problem like how I load 9mm... nope.

Now, not only do I go through twice as many steps as I thought I ever would, I do them the exact same way every single time methodically too lol.
 
Being somewhat new to precision reloading I was thinking about the never ending list of variables that go into creating good loads and it made me curious about what more experienced loaders thought was the hardest part of making good ammo so I figured I would start a little poll.

So, what do you all find is the hardest part of creating a good load? Is it getting accurate powder charges? Is it finding & keeping the right COAL? Is it getting consistent sizing? Consistent neck tension? What do you find is most difficult? And how did you fix that problem?
Nothing is difficult. No one aspect should be considered difficult when you break them apart like that.

What is or can be difficult is:

1. Paying attention to detail. Always. This doesn't mean just reloading but paying attention to your shooting, the weather, the environment, your other equipment, and so on and so forth.
2. Knowing which details to pay attention to. Sometimes it takes years to learn this.
 
Well... importance and difficulty are different things. If I had to pick the most important thing, it would be good measuring devices: powder scale and calipers. Those are not difficult, except maybe paying for them. I think those are the most important because they control the things that everyone agrees matter, and they do so objectively and scientifically.

That’s a good distinction! I guess mean either one.

and I guess I should clarify, I didn’t start the thread hoping to find a hack. I’m not looking for the “short cut“. Part of my frustration lately has been my Chargemaster constantly fluctuating so I agree that the ability to accurately measure things is critical. I got to see first hand how much that can matter and it forced me to move to a better tool. I was just curious what other people thought about what “obstacles” there were.
 
I find brass prep to be the most tedious task of all. I’ve been fortunate to be able to purchase nice equipment that helps, however, it still takes several steps to get it consistent every time.
 
Getting to the range to test.

I hear that. Especially cause my so called “home range” only has one 100yard bay and it’s ALWAYS booked so when I want to test I either wait a week or two, or drive the extra 90 minutes to my other spot.
 
Right now? Trying to decide if I chase a little more speed, distance, and smaller group size, or just load what is already on paper. Is it good enough? Would a small tweak here and there make enough difference to justify the process of a switch and the use of components on hand for further testing?
 
run to the light jump in that rabbit hole you can do it .

only you can prevent forest fires or find your perfect bullet with the perfect most wonderful load for your gun .
 
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IMO, the hardest is ensuring your brass stays in the same condition firing to firing, so brass prep.
 
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The hardest part for me is deciding how much is enough. Do I really need to neck turn? Does runout really matter? Should I spend the time to sort brass? Can I get by with my current press, or should I upgrade? If I miss off the left edge of a target, will I blame myself for not spending $600 on a primer seater? Could my annealer setup be better?

Those that have been much further down that road than me have almost uniformly concluded that enough is way less than most people think.
So true. I got a guy into LR shooting early last fall. I traveled to help, brought an idle chargemaster to loan him, simple measuring tools, he had a 1980's rock chucker. With minimal work we had his new rifle consistently shooting around 1" at 550 yards.
Over the last 5 months, he has been shopping, V3, Amp, CPS priming tool, Zero press, 21st Century motorized lathe, expensive concentricity gauge and more. I advised to quantify each purchase for gains-non gains. That wasn't happening, shot beside him yesterday, I think we went backwards, I will figure it out this morning.
He has new brass, which may be needed, I don't have the time this trip to begin to try back out of some of these steps he introduced.
 
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Two words for the hardest part of precision reloading “NECK TENSION”! Everything is somewhat easily fixable and can be addressable but neck tension is the biggest problem to consistency, whether that be donuts, lube, no lube, cleaning too much.......neck tension and the release of the bullet consistently is and always will be a rabbit hole that most always go down into!!
 
Brass prep - consistent neck tension is where you need to focus. Weighing brass and sorting does not get you much IMO.

Remember...you can have great ammo but if your wind calling ability sucks it's all for not. If you are at .5 MOA or below I would stick with what you got.

Getting to 1/4 MOA and below may violate the law of diminishing returns and waste your time
 
Powder charge accuracy is critical, otherwise you cannot have certainty about just what the load is that you're actually testing, or be able to have confidence in your own skills when a round goes flyer.

Avoid distractions like the plague. Load alone except when teaching. No TV, No talk radio, nothing but the task at hand.

Keeping it simple is my approach; only do a step if it's proven to you that it helps. Weigh time involved against the improvement that time buys. Never do something without a clearly understood reason. Whail all those neato, tempting gadgets and tweaks actually do have at least some value, they may take enough time to face you with an actual choice.

Do the minimum necessary steps that are actually doing something positive, and do them with maximum consistency.

It takes as long as it takes to get it right the first time. Rushing reloading is a fool's economy.

If you ever discover that you have crafted a lot of ammunition that is in any way dangerous, you are morally obliged to disassemble it safely, ASAP. Never leave a dangerous round lying around.

Keep records, never leave a critical value to memory. Every batch, large or small, that I assemble will always be labelled with all pertinent data about its composition. Never shoot a round that does not have this associated data. It could be anything, from anywhere. This should not apply to commercial ammo, but sometimes, regrettably, it does.

Ammunition should be kept in proper storage, designed for live ammunition. I use a generic version of commercial ammo packages, inexpensive and capable of protecting my ammunition from minor accidental damage. It's a little touch that fools me into thinking I'm a professional.

I downloaded and print my cartridge box labels from Glen Zediker's site. I just tried to access it to add a link, but it has been removed from the net. Otherwise, the links to various articles of his would have appeared here.

RIP Glen Zediker 1959-2020 links.

We are diminished by his passing.

Greg

PS, I hide nothing from my Wife. Partly, this is because I'm a pretty mild and boring guy, so there's really nothing to hide in the first place. Secondly, after 50 years together, I'm just no good at it.

Finally, the night before my wedding, Pop whispered quietly that when I'm fast asleep with my back to her, that knife drawer is just a short walk away.

I think that questions about explaining time in the loading room take on a different slant once you're retired. My major concern is that my loading room is an unheated, no A/C (large) room out attached to the back end of the Garage. It can get a bit hard to sustain for huge swaths of the Calendar, We can hit 115-120F in Summer, Likewise 20's in the Winter. Spring and Fall are sorta like a blip, they pass so quickly. So when I've got a good day, I could end up doing ten or more hours out there. Truthfully, I have no shortage of ammo and probably still may have hours worth of components left.

Mark this down. Never make up a full batch 50 or 100rd until you have a proven load. That's the reason why I own a collet puller.

You'd think I'd learn...

New Project; 44 Rem Mag for the '94 Trapper Carbine (Winchester, of course...)
 
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Two words for the hardest part of precision reloading “NECK TENSION”! Everything is somewhat easily fixable and can be addressable but neck tension is the biggest problem to consistency, whether that be donuts, lube, no lube, cleaning too much.......neck tension and the release of the bullet consistently is and always will be a rabbit hole that most always go down into!!

So how do you do it? I already use a expander mandrel, but I was wondering what everyone else does for “lube” on that step? I don’t clean my Brass unless it’s really dirty so I haven’t been bothering with lubing inside the neck for expanding and the other night I noticed how much more drag there was on new brass that I was running through the mandrel for better consistency.
 
For me, I don't use traditional case wax like Imperial or whatever, I use the spray-on alcohol/lanolin case lube like Dillon, Frankford, etc and swirl and tumble the cases around in a plastic container.
After giving it 10+mins for the alcohol to evaporate, I size them, and then they hit the mandrel... using the spray-on stuff just enough lube makes its way inside the necks that there's never any sticking on the mandrel. Feels the same way every time.

I then dry tumble all the lube off the cases for 30-40mins in corn cob media (which incidentally, as a happy side effect leaves a little dust in the necks to make seating bullets nice without having to mess with any graphite or whatever).

With new brass, well, it's new brass... I'm not expecting the most consistent neck tension on the first firing so I don't really care too much, but enough lube is still usually leftover on the mandrel that I can put the mandrel through 100 new cases without noticing anything sticky or wonky.

Edit: I wanted to add because you mentioned you didn't clean your brass every time.
Just something to think about, not saying your way isn't fine. But, IMHO the biggest thing I've learned since I've been reloading is it's all about controlling the most variables you can, control what you can control when you can. So although my brass leads a fairly pampered life and most times doesn't see the ground: I still wet tumble to clean them like brand-new every single time even though they don't need it. Yep, it sucks, but, since I can't control all the cases always being the same amount of dirty, and I CAN control all the cases starting off the same amount of clean... then fuck, decision made lol.
 
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The hardest thing for me is the working up the load to the rifle. Trying to get that ed/es into single digits is what’s the most infuriating to me.
 
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So how do you do it? I already use a expander mandrel, but I was wondering what everyone else does for “lube” on that step? I don’t clean my Brass unless it’s really dirty so I haven’t been bothering with lubing inside the neck for expanding and the other night I noticed how much more drag there was on new brass that I was running through the mandrel for better consistency.
Well it’s still a trial and error sort of deal, that’s why it’s the hardest! You can spend a shit ton of time and money on neck tension and still have nothing to show for it. Brass quality, components, tools, and process all have to do with neck tension thus the reason why if you do a search your will be reading for days!

What I currently do is, deprime, ss pin clean for 30-4minutes, anneal, lube using lanolin homemade lube, FL size with forester bench rest die, expand to caliber size using a mandrel, trim w/ 3 in 1 forester trimmer, neck turn to just touch the shoulder a bit for donuts, FL size again, set neck tension using a mandrel to your desired tension, prime, charge, seat. Whatever lube is in the neck is there, I don’t add anything intentionally as I found my “happy place” on the matter.

Is it long and drawn out yes, does it work for me “currently” yes, will ppl comment on how I’m not doing it right probably.......but it works for me, currently! Some use type S dies but I can’t seem to get them to work like others get them too and there is a lot of things that affect runout/consistency with the bushings. Most times the bushings are not true/square/centered


It’s still not perfect but it’s one rabbit hole most have gone down and quit on or think they conquered, it’s still not perfected to the extent that everyone uses the same technique. I have tried leaving powder residue in but I have not personally tested it enough, some have and have excellent results, I have tried polishing the ID of the necks to a mirror shine and the little bit I tried worked really great but takes way too much time and was only tested a little bit, I’ve tried imperial dry lube and didn’t notice much if any difference, imperial wax with not much testing.

One thing I’d like to test is put that lanolin lube on some bullets and try that.
 
Never being satisfied. There is always another tweak...

it is a gratifying game!

Cheers,

Sirhr

PS: real hardest part is never having your boxes of primers, boolits and brass match up, count-wise. The frustration of loading 497 rounds and having 7 leftover bullets and being short 11 primers... Messes with my OCD something fierce!
 
Just buy Lapua brass so you don't have to fuck with neck wall thickness and also have faith that the cases are going to be as consistent as they can get for a mass-produced item. Also, if it is possible, use cartridges that have the option of "small rifle primer" pockets. If you're running a higher pressured cartridge, like a 6/6.5, large rifle pockets tend to loosen up much faster than small rifle pockets do.

As far as answering your question, I believe the hardest part of precision reloading is annealing your brass CORRECTLY. I have seen so many different ways to anneal brass, everyone thinks their method is best, of course, but it is a function that requires precision when precision is not so easily achieved.

A friend of mine and I built a couple of "machines" that held a torch in place while a shellholder spun each case in the flame. The shellholder was on a hinge, so you just dumped it once it was annealed.

The trickiest part is getting that damn temperature right. Again, everyone has their method to this, but at the end of the day, you've got to rely on some sort of technology to help you, whether that is Tempilaq or an infrared thermometer. Even with those implements, the process is still not very precise. After fucking around with the fire and researching the salt bath annealing solution, I stumbled into the wonderful world of induction annealing.

There is something to be said of the AMP annealing machines. They are magnificent, but very expensive. There was a LGS about 3 minutes away from house who would allow me to use his AMP, but that fellow just moved his shop to about 30 minutes away from me. After a bit of research, I found a dude on youtube who made his own induction annealer for 225.00. I will put one together. I'm not real good in the engineering/mechanics aspect of putting shit together, so it may look like a monkey fucking a football, but if I can get my cases to 750 without melting them, I won't care what the contraption looks like. Once it's finished, I'll update.
 
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Just buy Lapua brass so you don't have to fuck with neck wall thickness and also have faith that the cases are going to be as consistent as they can get for a mass-produced item. Also, if it is possible, use cartridges that have the option of "small rifle primer" pockets. If you're running a higher pressured cartridge, like a 6/6.5, large rifle pockets tend to loosen up much faster than small rifle pockets do.

As far as answering your question, I believe the hardest part of precision reloading is annealing your brass CORRECTLY. I have seen so many different ways to anneal brass, everyone thinks their method is best, of course, but it is a function that requires precision when precision is not so easily achieved.

A friend of mine and I built a couple of "machines" that held a torch in place while a shellholder spun each case in the flame. The shellholder was on a hinge, so you just dumped it once it was annealed.

The trickiest part is getting that damn temperature right. Again, everyone has their method to this, but at the end of the day, you've got to rely on some sort of technology to help you, whether that is Tempilaq or an infrared thermometer. Even with those implements, the process is still not very precise. After fucking around with the fire and researching the salt bath annealing solution, I stumbled into the wonderful world of induction annealing.

There is something to be said of the AMP annealing machines. They are magnificent, but very expensive. There was a LGS about 3 minutes away from house who would allow me to use his AMP, but that fellow just moved his shop to about 30 minutes away from me. After a bit of research, I found a dude on youtube who made his own induction annealer for 225.00. I will put one together. I'm not real good in the engineering/mechanics aspect of putting shit together, so it may look like a monkey fucking a football, but if I can get my cases to 750 without melting them, I won't care what the contraption looks like. Once it's finished, I'll update.
I use whatever brass is available for the cartridge. I found out with my Valkyrie that getting the best brass available is best. I use starline, ADG for my precision stuff for beyond 500 yard stuff and miscellaneous for hunting rifles 200-300 yards and closer. I use a Annie annealer, works great, cheaper that an amp and more consistent than a flame/salt bath.
 
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If you have the proper tools and process.......none of it is hard. Anyone having issues is either using bad tools, bad process, or both.

Loading ammo is about the most over thought and misunderstood part of all this.

Drop your powder to the kernel, keep your neck tension/friction/seating pressure consistent, use good brass and bullets. And you’ll get consistently good numbers.

These are typical strings you can get just running a mandrel and spot checking neck ID with a pin gauge. Literally no “load development”. Just drop charges to the kernel. If you wanted to, you could do powder tests and decrease the ES a bit.
 

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Being somewhat new to precision reloading [I am interested in what] more experienced loaders thought was the hardest part of making good ammo...

So, what do you all find is the hardest part of creating a good load... What do you find is most difficult?
I fixed it for you, and the answer is... FINDING COMPONENTS...
 
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We get it guys. Components are scarce right now.

No need to complain about it in every thread where people are looking for information other than cOmPoNeNtS aRe HaRd tO FiNd
 
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If you have the proper tools and process.......none of it is hard. Anyone having issues is either using bad tools, bad process, or both.

Loading ammo is about the most over thought and misunderstood part of all this.

Drop your powder to the kernel, keep your neck tension/friction/seating pressure consistent, use good brass and bullets. And you’ll get consistently good numbers.

These are typical strings you can get just running a mandrel and spot checking neck ID with a pin gauge. Literally no “load development”. Just drop charges to the kernel. If you wanted to, you could do powder tests and decrease the ES a bit.
Yeah, I think the most difficult part really is to keep from over complicating it. So many variables its hard to not wonder what effect changing one has.
 
To me, it's trying to keep things simple and accept "good enough". I have a habit of diving down rabbit holes and chasing every last hundredth out of my group size. It came to a point where I just had to say that I'm happy with my process and the results so there's no need to add another tool or another step
 
To me, it's trying to keep things simple and accept "good enough". I have a habit of diving down rabbit holes and chasing every last hundredth out of my group size. It came to a point where I just had to say that I'm happy with my process and the results so there's no need to add another tool or another step
OCD is a bitch sometimes! Been there done that!
 
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Remember, the load is combustion. When ES/SD get smallest you're halfway there.

The other half is harmonics, and requires barrel tuning, and can also involve seating depth. This assumes a true action.

Greg
 
We get it guys. Components are scarce right now.

No need to complain about it in every thread where people are looking for information other than cOmPoNeNtS aRe HaRd tO FiNd
I wasn't complaining, I was observing...