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Night Vision What are the potential pitfalls of purchasing used NV/Thermal optics/scanners ?

DIBBS

Old Mountain Man-Tired occasionally Grumpy SOB
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Minuteman
  • Aug 21, 2008
    3,240
    3,360
    WARSHington State
    What wears out on these units-do they have a certain # of hours before they need to go back to the factory to be refurbished or have certain parts replaced. I'm more concerned with the internals of the units than rechargeable batteries/battery packs.

    I'm still on the bottom of the learning curve and trying to determine what the best approach is for night hunting equipment purchases.

    TIA

    With all the options out there... it may be next winter before I jump headfirst into night hunting. I'm of the buy once cry once type... but don't have 10-15K to drop at the moment. Most of the country I hunt is fairly wide open. Coyotes are the primary target.
     
    Last edited:
    I’ve purchased 9 used thermal units and 1 new unit. All were higher end (BAE cores).

    I’ve purchased 8 night vision devices (4 new and 4 used).

    Pitfalls:

    STOLEN MILITARY ITEMS

    Many night vision, thermal, and laser devices begin life in US government possession. They “fall off a truck” one day and enter the civilian market.

    If you know how much equipment we routinely give to terrorists (not just the recent Afghan debacle) you cannot possibly object morally to these devices. Nevertheless, they present three possible risks:

    1. If the technology is new enough (current issue) CID may track the item down and take it from you. No refund. Prosecution is pretty much unheard of, for the buyer (military guy who “lost” it is screwed).

    2. If the device ever needs service, it’s unlikely you can get it serviced since the manufacturer will know it shouldn’t be in your possession.

    3. If you knew the device was stolen when you bought it, or realized that later, how do you market the device if you decide to sell?

    It takes some familiarity with the market, market players, items in frequent use by the military, etc. to know if you’re buying a legit device or a stolen one. Usually you learn through some error 😬

    These items sell very cheap for the above mentioned reasons.

    GREY MARKET ITEMS

    Grey market items are usually things that manufacturers only sold to police agencies. The agency sells or trades the item (breaking manufacturers agreement) and it’s now in private hands. This is safer to own in one sense, but manufacturer support is unlikely.

    These items usually sell above retail due to their hard to acquire nature and minimal risk.

    SPECIFICATIONS

    You’re buying a used thermal. Yay! The price seems good. Online specs say it has a 640x320 resolution sensor…

    But does it really?

    Earlier models may have had lesser resolution sensors. Or inferior display screens. Or be 30 hertz vs 60. Which version is the seller offering? Does he even know?

    Night vision device specifications take LOTS of reading to learn. The difference between a $1000 tube and a $4000 tube are listed as strange numbers on a “spec sheet”. Beginners get taken for a ride here. Either put in the time to learn the lingo, get help from someone trusted in the field, or at the very least, call a VERY reputable dealer and ask for guidance.

    DAMAGE

    If a unit has any damage that affects functioning, call around and get a specific price from a company qualified to repair the item BEFORE you buy. Lots of items are sold because a switch or knob doesn’t work… if the repair was cheap (or even possible) it probably would have been done.

    There’s a dead pixel in the screen. Is that the start of trouble from damage, or normal wear and tear? Is it in warranty?

    MANUFACTURER SUPPORT

    This is HUGE.

    Make sure you’re buying from a company with a history of helping out their customers with problems. Hint* avoid FLIR.

    Make sure there’s a clear and easy path to repair broken or defective components.

    These devices are complex. There’s a lot that can go wrong. So be sure to get something that will have manufacturer support, or pay very very little for it (see point #1).

    If not abused, most night vision or thermal devices will outlive your desire to use them. They will literally become technologically obsolete long before they wear out, so whatever you get, don’t be afraid to use it a ton!

    For your open terrain coyotes, get something with 2.5x native magnum (or more). Halo LR and Reap-ir fit this role well and can be found used in the 5-6k range.

    My experience with open terrain coyotes is that I literally get 10 times as many with thermal than night vision so that’s what I’d be looking for, but your hunting style will determine if that’s a fit for you.
     
    Last edited:
    Its already been said, but them Hortaville raiders can live-in Cliven uuuuuUP, with we from the Government and we ain't here to help you. :LOL:


    images
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Lowdown3
    I’ve purchased 9 used thermal units and 1 new unit. All were higher end (BAE cores).

    I’ve purchased 8 night vision devices (4 new and 4 used).

    Pitfalls:

    STOLEN MILITARY ITEMS

    Many night vision, thermal, and laser devices begin life in US government possession. They “fall off a truck” one day and enter the civilian market.

    If you know how much equipment we routinely give to terrorists (not just the recent Afghan debacle) you cannot possibly object morally to these devices. Nevertheless, they present three possible risks:

    1. If the technology is new enough (current issue) CID may track the item down and take it from you. No refund. Prosecution is pretty much unheard of, for the buyer (military guy who “lost” it is screwed).

    2. If the device ever needs service, it’s unlikely you can get it serviced since the manufacturer will know it shouldn’t be in your possession.

    3. If you knew the device was stolen when you bought it, or realized that later, how do you market the device if you decide to sell?

    It takes some familiarity with the market, market players, items in frequent use by the military, etc. to know if you’re buying a legit device or a stolen one. Usually you learn through some error 😬

    These items sell very cheap for the above mentioned reasons.

    GREY MARKET ITEMS

    Grey market items are usually things that manufacturers only sold to police agencies. The agency sells or trades the item (breaking manufacturers agreement) and it’s now in private hands. This is safer to own in one sense, but manufacturer support is unlikely.

    These items usually sell above retail due to their hard to acquire nature and minimal risk.

    SPECIFICATIONS

    You’re buying a used thermal. Yay! The price seems good. Online specs say it has a 640x320 resolution sensor…

    But does it really?

    Earlier models may have had lesser resolution sensors. Or inferior display screens. Or be 30 hertz vs 60. Which version is the seller offering? Does he even know?

    Night vision device specifications take LOTS of reading to learn. The difference between a $1000 tube and a $4000 tube are listed as strange numbers on a “spec sheet”. Beginners get taken for a ride here. Either put in the time to learn the lingo, get help from someone trusted in the field, or at the very least, call a VERY reputable dealer and ask for guidance.

    DAMAGE

    If a unit has any damage that affects functioning, call around and get a specific price from a company qualified to repair the item BEFORE you buy. Lots of items are sold because a switch or knob doesn’t work… if the repair was cheap (or even possible) it probably would have been done.

    There’s a dead pixel in the screen. Is that the start of trouble from damage, or normal wear and tear? Is it in warranty?

    MANUFACTURER SUPPORT

    This is HUGE.

    Make sure you’re buying from a company with a history of helping out their customers with problems. Hint* avoid FLIR.

    Make sure there’s a clear and easy path to repair broken or defective components.

    These devices are complex. There’s a lot that can go wrong. So be sure to get something that will have manufacturer support, or pay very very little for it (see point #1).

    If not abused, most night vision or thermal devices will outlive your desire to use them. They will literally become technologically obsolete long before they wear out, so whatever you get, don’t be afraid to use it a ton!

    For your open terrain coyotes, get something with 2.5x native magnum (or more). Halo LR and Reap-ir fit this role well and can be found used in the 5-6k range.

    My experience with open terrain coyotes is that I literally get 10 times as many with thermal than night vision so that’s what I’d be looking for, but your hunting style will determine if that’s a fit for you.
    That was a damn good post.
     
    If you know nothing, Buy the best NEW thermal or NV you can afford at the time.
    Buy once and cry once is sometimes a gamble too, as this gear depends on electronics to work properly, so Always buy a tested product from a reputable company that has a good track record and the best + transferrable warranty.
    Unless parts are available, you know how to work on them, buying used NV optics will always be a gamble.
    Same with Thermal optics, but you have less of a worry with thermal getting compromised, as it doesn't use tube(s) that'll get burned out, like traditional light gathering/magnifying NV optics.
    I buy gear with the intent that I'm going to use it till it dies.
    Most optic manufacturers don't have spare parts available for their optics after a few years, so getting an optic repaired after the warranty is up is usually not going to happen.
    If you can afford it, buy a backup optic ( I use the loaner optic excuse ), as you never know and something is always better than nothing.
    Thermal and NV are worse than any drug out there.
    Owning the night is a very powerful addiction.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: DIBBS
    If you know nothing, Buy the best NEW thermal or NV you can afford at the time.
    I beg to differ with 9,495 reasons...

    I'm of the buy once cry once type
    That reasoning has its place if you know for sure what you want.

    If you don't know anything about NV or thermal, my suggestion is to buy something cheap with intentions of reselling it soon. You will accelerate your learning curve vs just asking questions and the knowledge you gain will be well worth the $500 you loose on the backend.

    I can promise you that a $3k mistake hurts a lot less than a $10k one...

    Most of the country I hunt is fairly wide open. Coyotes are the primary target.
    I'm in the same boat. I haven't found a good answer yet, but I'm going to be looking really hard at one of the Theons for next year.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: DIBBS
    Contact a thermal dealer that knows about hunting coyotes. I will offer up Night Goggles. The Program Director, Tom Austin, is a nationally known coyote hunter. As a Product Specialist for them, I shot over 300 coyotes hunting solo last winter, and 200 so far this year. Night Goggles carries Trijcon, Nvision, Pulsar, and Bering Optics. Night Goggles. I will PM you my contact information. There is too much here to cover in a post and it will lead to questions, so talking on the phone is the best.

    My best suggestion is from a budget perspective you need to purchase a thermal scanner for sure. For shooting, you could with NV, digital NV, or thermal with a major recommendation toward thermal as well. I would much rather have a good quality thermal scanner and scope than only 1 really good quality thermal scope.
     
    What fails first ? Typically electronics. Some are broke out of the box, some soldier on for 10 years, but at some point the electrical and or electronics will fail. The lenses will only break if you bang on them, same with the housings.

    So, the main thing to do if you are buying used, is to try to get convinced the thing actually powers on and the display is as clean as described.
    The person could include a card with your name and the date in the image of the unit powered on for example.

    Regardless, its a good idea to go with a seller that has some feed back here and even ask 2-3 buyers for more info on the seller. I get asked to provide input on sellers/buyers I've worked with all the time.

    Buying from unknown people is really the biggest risk, so I'd stay here or PM or otherwise major site and stay away from unknown sellers on e-bay for example.