I've got some speer lawman, federal AE, winchester white box, and some blazer brass loaded ammo that I was going to shoot up and save the brass to load some gold dots and barnes xpbs pretty hot. Or do I need to buy special +p brass? New to reloading 
Re: What brass to use for +p+ type loads in 9mm
Shoot some of each, weigh the cases and the heaviest "should" have the thicker web. You can also look into the case and see which one has a thicker web.
Starline has "+P" headstamped 9x19 cases available. There's no difference in the construction just the +P stamp to help differentiate.
Be cautious in working up +P+ loads for the 9x19. There's no much case capacity so pressures increase quickly. I strongly recommend that you DO NOT exceed any published load data.
Shoot some of each, weigh the cases and the heaviest "should" have the thicker web. You can also look into the case and see which one has a thicker web.
Starline has "+P" headstamped 9x19 cases available. There's no difference in the construction just the +P stamp to help differentiate.
Be cautious in working up +P+ loads for the 9x19. There's no much case capacity so pressures increase quickly. I strongly recommend that you DO NOT exceed any published load data.
Re: What brass to use for +p+ type loads in 9mm
If you don't want to weigh each case (because some also have thicker walls, not just webs), you can measure the depth (mouth to bottom of case) and the OAL and then take
OAL - case depth = web thickness
Buffy's right, pushing them super hard will cause issues fast if you're not careful. The "+p+" ammo is only designated that way as a marketing technique on the cases. They are the same brass, just a different load from the factory, it's no stronger.
My general deal with loading for MOST of my pistols is that I just pick a load that's safe for all the various brass that I have and shoot it. If you want some super hot loads, go buy something like Starline brass, work a load on a couple cases, and then load up the rest as new brass and use it for carry or hunting or whatever. Range pickup brass or "once fired" brass is always suspect to me for loading hot.
If you don't want to weigh each case (because some also have thicker walls, not just webs), you can measure the depth (mouth to bottom of case) and the OAL and then take
OAL - case depth = web thickness
Buffy's right, pushing them super hard will cause issues fast if you're not careful. The "+p+" ammo is only designated that way as a marketing technique on the cases. They are the same brass, just a different load from the factory, it's no stronger.
My general deal with loading for MOST of my pistols is that I just pick a load that's safe for all the various brass that I have and shoot it. If you want some super hot loads, go buy something like Starline brass, work a load on a couple cases, and then load up the rest as new brass and use it for carry or hunting or whatever. Range pickup brass or "once fired" brass is always suspect to me for loading hot.
Re: What brass to use for +p+ type loads in 9mm
What are you shooting it out of? Make sure your pistol has a fully supported chamber or you may get a case rupture.
What are you shooting it out of? Make sure your pistol has a fully supported chamber or you may get a case rupture.
Re: What brass to use for +p+ type loads in 9mm
If it's an automatic, the recoil spring may need replacing.
If it's an automatic, the recoil spring may need replacing.
Re: What brass to use for +p+ type loads in 9mm
A lot of the guys I shoot with shoot 9 major in their open guns. These loads are definitely not safe in regular 9mm factory pistols.
Be careful and work up a load slowly. Pistols are not fun when they kaboom.
A lot of the guys I shoot with shoot 9 major in their open guns. These loads are definitely not safe in regular 9mm factory pistols.
Be careful and work up a load slowly. Pistols are not fun when they kaboom.
Re: What brass to use for +p+ type loads in 9mm
I have worked up thousands of 9mm loads with every bullet and powder I can find, to find the real pressure limit.
What I now do to keep me, others, and my pistols safe in hot rod 9mm work ups:
1) Make sure each loaded round can completely drop into and out of the chamber. If an increase in powder pushes the bullet out and into the lands, a spike in pressure can result. Compressing powder can fatten a bullet and it can be pinched in the chamber. A huge pressure spike could result.
2) I wrap a towel around the pistol and my shooting hand, to catch the ejected case.
3) Each case in a 0.1 gr incremental work up is examined under magnification before proceeding to the next load.
4) If a piece of brass has a guppy belly from the lack of support over the feed ramp, the work up is stopped and the load noted.
5) If a primer pierces, the work up is stopped and the load noted.
6) Useful loads have a powder charge reduced by a safety margin from the pressure sign that ended the work up.
7) 9mm brass typically has a .160" thick web. Typical 9mm barrels have .190" feed ramp intrusion. That leaves .030" of thin unsupported case wall. It is bad form to work up a load in one gun and then shoot it in another gun with less case support.
8) Most 9mm pistols can shoot loads so hot that, although no pressure problems, recoil problems result. The recoil springs should be sized so that the brass should land 5 feet from the shooter [to keep the slide from slamming into the frame]. To get that with +P++++++++++++++++ loads, the recoil spring assembly would require more grip than most men have in order to chamber a round. Such springs move the slide too fast for normal magazine springs to feed. Increasing the magazine springs make loading too hard for the finger strength of most men. Increasing that magazine springs in parallel also causes the magazine to hold one less round.
9) I have never seen a 9mm barrel that the chamber walls are so thin and/or of such poor metal that the barrel is weaker than the brass. But there is always a first time. The CZ52 7.62x25mm and many revolvers are weaker than the brass. I have heavy bags of their failed parts.
10) Wear eye protection. If one misses the pressure signs and just keep working up after a hole has blown in the guppy belly, eventually the case head will blow off. The small pieces of debris can come back through the ejector slot in the slide and hit the shooter in the face. The blood on the face resulting is called "major face". That won't hurt, just baffle the dentist seeing bits of brass in the X ray. But it could hurt the eyes.
11) Do not have innocents to the right of the work up. If a case head blows off, the extractor can shear off and exit out the ejection port at lethal velocities. Those extractors can go through plywood or sheet metal. Don't stand to the right or let anyone stand to the right of hot loads or hot load work ups.
I have worked up thousands of 9mm loads with every bullet and powder I can find, to find the real pressure limit.
What I now do to keep me, others, and my pistols safe in hot rod 9mm work ups:
1) Make sure each loaded round can completely drop into and out of the chamber. If an increase in powder pushes the bullet out and into the lands, a spike in pressure can result. Compressing powder can fatten a bullet and it can be pinched in the chamber. A huge pressure spike could result.
2) I wrap a towel around the pistol and my shooting hand, to catch the ejected case.
3) Each case in a 0.1 gr incremental work up is examined under magnification before proceeding to the next load.
4) If a piece of brass has a guppy belly from the lack of support over the feed ramp, the work up is stopped and the load noted.
5) If a primer pierces, the work up is stopped and the load noted.
6) Useful loads have a powder charge reduced by a safety margin from the pressure sign that ended the work up.
7) 9mm brass typically has a .160" thick web. Typical 9mm barrels have .190" feed ramp intrusion. That leaves .030" of thin unsupported case wall. It is bad form to work up a load in one gun and then shoot it in another gun with less case support.
8) Most 9mm pistols can shoot loads so hot that, although no pressure problems, recoil problems result. The recoil springs should be sized so that the brass should land 5 feet from the shooter [to keep the slide from slamming into the frame]. To get that with +P++++++++++++++++ loads, the recoil spring assembly would require more grip than most men have in order to chamber a round. Such springs move the slide too fast for normal magazine springs to feed. Increasing the magazine springs make loading too hard for the finger strength of most men. Increasing that magazine springs in parallel also causes the magazine to hold one less round.
9) I have never seen a 9mm barrel that the chamber walls are so thin and/or of such poor metal that the barrel is weaker than the brass. But there is always a first time. The CZ52 7.62x25mm and many revolvers are weaker than the brass. I have heavy bags of their failed parts.
10) Wear eye protection. If one misses the pressure signs and just keep working up after a hole has blown in the guppy belly, eventually the case head will blow off. The small pieces of debris can come back through the ejector slot in the slide and hit the shooter in the face. The blood on the face resulting is called "major face". That won't hurt, just baffle the dentist seeing bits of brass in the X ray. But it could hurt the eyes.
11) Do not have innocents to the right of the work up. If a case head blows off, the extractor can shear off and exit out the ejection port at lethal velocities. Those extractors can go through plywood or sheet metal. Don't stand to the right or let anyone stand to the right of hot loads or hot load work ups.
Re: What brass to use for +p+ type loads in 9mm
Generally I've found Winchester and Remington brass to work well in 9mm. The Speer brass I've had was soft and I used to just toss it. These were all stout loads, faster than factory, but not "major". Haven't had any experience with the Blazer.
Generally I've found Winchester and Remington brass to work well in 9mm. The Speer brass I've had was soft and I used to just toss it. These were all stout loads, faster than factory, but not "major". Haven't had any experience with the Blazer.
Re: What brass to use for +p+ type loads in 9mm
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how is it that military 124gr FMJ can push 1400fps ? and 127gr at 1250 = +p+ ? </div></div>
They load the brass 1 time and only care about how it works that first time.
Stretching cases, expanding bases, etc don't matter as long as it goes off and gets down there fast.
Also, I believe that the GI issue pistols all have a fully supported chamber, so you can load it hotter, and they have 5" barrels.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how is it that military 124gr FMJ can push 1400fps ? and 127gr at 1250 = +p+ ? </div></div>
They load the brass 1 time and only care about how it works that first time.
Stretching cases, expanding bases, etc don't matter as long as it goes off and gets down there fast.
Also, I believe that the GI issue pistols all have a fully supported chamber, so you can load it hotter, and they have 5" barrels.
Re: What brass to use for +p+ type loads in 9mm
If I need hot loads, it will be for defense or hunting. I will shoot handloads for hunting, but will not carry reloads for defense. This is not because of a question of reliability, but one of liability.
If you shoot a perp with handloads, it can and probably will be used against you in court." Wouldn't factory ammo kill him dead enough?"
If you are just shooting target, why abuse the gun?
If I need hot loads, it will be for defense or hunting. I will shoot handloads for hunting, but will not carry reloads for defense. This is not because of a question of reliability, but one of liability.
If you shoot a perp with handloads, it can and probably will be used against you in court." Wouldn't factory ammo kill him dead enough?"
If you are just shooting target, why abuse the gun?
Re: What brass to use for +p+ type loads in 9mm
Have loaded thousands and thousands of 9mm major loads (125 JHP at 1400 fps)and I have had no problems with standard 9mm brass. Stay away from that S&B crap.
Have loaded thousands and thousands of 9mm major loads (125 JHP at 1400 fps)and I have had no problems with standard 9mm brass. Stay away from that S&B crap.
Re: What brass to use for +p+ type loads in 9mm
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">everyone always says liability but never show me any real case law. </div></div>
Here's an article to read. The section on ammunition explains why using hand-loaded ammunition for defense may not be the best choice.
http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/choosing-self-defense-guns
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">everyone always says liability but never show me any real case law. </div></div>
Here's an article to read. The section on ammunition explains why using hand-loaded ammunition for defense may not be the best choice.
http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/choosing-self-defense-guns
Re: What brass to use for +p+ type loads in 9mm
Question; what powder and bbl length was the 1400 achieved with? Just curiosity on my part.
The original loading for the 9mm was 124 grain bullet at 1250fps from a 4 inch barrel. Then Someone came along with the alloy frame pistol and we had to dumb things down to 38 special velocities. So now anything that achieves the original load parameters is labeld +P+. Running 1250 in a 4.4 inch P226 isn't stressful on shooter or pistol.
Question; what powder and bbl length was the 1400 achieved with? Just curiosity on my part.
The original loading for the 9mm was 124 grain bullet at 1250fps from a 4 inch barrel. Then Someone came along with the alloy frame pistol and we had to dumb things down to 38 special velocities. So now anything that achieves the original load parameters is labeld +P+. Running 1250 in a 4.4 inch P226 isn't stressful on shooter or pistol.
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