What cal trainer for max 700yds

[Tim_WNC]

I have a Tikka Tac A1 in 6.5CM that is boringly accurate.

I’m looking to add a new CENTERFIRE rifle to the rotation that may be a bit more of a challenge out to 700 yards - max at my main range.

What caliber should I consider?

.223 and .308 seem in the running, but also kinda boring.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Make the targets smaller if it’s all too boring.

Or have someone spin your turrets and work on corrections.

If targets are fairly generous (over an moa) and you’re shooting prone, with good dope, everything is going to be “boring” at 700 and in.

 

[Harman117]

Another option besides caliber change: Try some positional shooting if that’s an option. Maybe build some barricades if your range will allow it.

 

[Mxridr]

Shoot off hand. Unsupported prone. Lots of ways to challenge yourself. 700 yards prone not too difficult for most.

 

[Herstal 12]

204 Ruger should be a bit sporty at 700, I think it is superb for learning the wind, economical as a 223 and very low recoil to boot.
Cheers

 

[Campguy308]

IMO, it's best to stick with one caliber and learn it. Switching around can make it difficult to develop intuitive wind holds, recoil control, etc.

Edit - But for cheap close range positional practice where building a stable platform is the object, I'd say a 223 would be hard to beat.

 

[C_R_Slacker]

223 for cheap ammo. 308 for recoil management. Also, what was said already...smaller targets and/or more challenging positions. Something i like to do is, using my reticle only, guess target range and dope then spot my miss and make a quick correction. You can also put yourself on a timer or do dot drills. Lots of stuff you can do, just have to get creative with what you have at your disposal.

 

[Dthomas3523]

IMO, it's best to stick with one caliber and learn it. Switching around can make it difficult to develop intuitive wind holds, recoil control, etc.

This is why we think in wind mph.

Knowing dope (elevation and windage) for a round is easy. You make the wind call in mph and apply it. That makes it universal.

“Intuitive” wind calls make you less skilled and not more. Making a wind call down to a mph (though you likely won’t be within a mph, bit that’s the goal) will make you much more skilled in the long run than “I feel like I should hold .6” for reasons unknown.

 

[Campguy308]

This is why we think in wind mph.

Knowing dope (elevation and windage) for a round is easy. You make the wind call in mph and apply it. That makes it universal.

“Intuitive” wind calls make you less skilled and not more. Making a wind call down to a mph (though you likely won’t be within a mph, bit that’s the goal) will make you much more skilled in the long run than “I feel like I should hold .6” for reasons unknown.

I agree with learning to judge the wind accurately, but still believe that less is more in this context.

 

[Tim_WNC]

The positional stuff, barricades, etc May be the way to go.

I have a pretty free hand to do what I want at my range. There’s a VTAC board and I can set up whatever.

Good ideas

 

[Dolomite_Supafly]

I just put together a 300 Blackout to do the same. I am shooting 155g billeted at 1,985fps. They will remain super to about 700 yards depending on the weather.

I had no pressure signs so there is room for more velocity. I stopped at the first node which was 2 grains off of max.

 

[beetroot]

Shoot off hand. Unsupported prone. Lots of ways to challenge yourself. 700 yards prone not too difficult for most.

Offhand shooting, the great humblizer.

Positional shooting (standing, kneeling, sitting, unsupported prone) is great for an added challenge, as well as learning some great skills.
Lots of folk can shoot well off a bipod and rear bag, not so many kneeling or offhand.

For a long range trainer 223, 22lr or any other smaller cartridge that is effected by the wind will be good option.
As said above learning to read wind within 1mph will be the best thing you can do to improve long range shooting.

 

[b6graham]

if it's a trainer, in centerfire, your best options are 223 and 308 for factory OR reloaded ammo. nothing else really compares to what you can learn from them, and for cheaper if you're talking factory ammo which in a trainer is very nice.

they will make you learn wind either with or without recoil. leave you plenty of cheap factory options.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

If all I had to compete with was myself, I think I could get bored, too.

Get some other shooters of equivalent capability together, and shoot for score.

As for chambering, 223; shot at significant distance. The wind will erase the boredom pretty quickly.

My old club back East would hold periodic (2 weeks, 4 weeks, etc.) 300yd matches, prone for most, bench for us feebs.

I disagree about using the same chambering. By using the 223, the challenge factor goes up. Not all chamberings handle wind equally well; pick the ones that make you work harder.

Meanwhile, IMHO, a true marksman adapts to the equipment; rather than limiting the breadth of their skills by forcing those skills into a narrower channel.

Greg

 

[ThePretzel]

I agree that a .223 would be most likely to help you improve. The effect of a small change in wind will be much larger on a .223 than on a 6.5 Creedmoor, meaning you must learn to more accurately decipher the wind to make consistent hits.

As far as trying to shoot the same caliber every time to learn it well, that's irrelevant from the point of view of wind. You don't need to "learn" a caliber because the answer is given to you already by your ballistic calculator. What you do need to do is learn how to figure out which numbers to put into the calculator for wind.

If it takes 3mph more of wind to change your wind hold by 0.1 MRAD it will be hard to learn to spot the differences between 5mph and 8mph winds simply because your bullet does very close to the same thing in both wind conditions. If your bullet instead changes by 0.1 MRAD for every 1mph of wind change, it will make it easier to learn to spot the differences because you have instant feedback.

Seeing the bullet move when the wind changes by a small amount gives you more feedback to learn from than if you're shooting a cartridge that's forgiving in the wind.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

When I started out trying to learn how to shoot in the wind, I began by zeroing, then simply shooting with a dead center hold, and observing deviations after the conditions before the shot. If you can shoot with both eyes open, you can also practice shifting between observing conditions with the one eye, and shooting with the other.

In essence, I was learning how that gun performed in accordance with those observable conditions. It goes along with the adage, "First, know your gun".

Next, I tried shifting my hold in accordance with my perception of the wind changes. I learned a lot about compensation, and also about my own perceptions.

Nothing is perfect, every time, everywhere. But with practice comes improvement. Better is good. It's all a matter of choices.

These days, I find my default zero, and simply change holds. It's instantaneous, as opposed to computation and application for dial inputs.

Plus, it reduces the confusion that ensues when one tries to return to the initial default dial setting, and goofs up. That can leave you dead in the water while trying to figure out your default zero all over again.

Conditions can change fast and leave you flatfooted with the perfectly applied new dial setting for a condition that's just finished changing again.

Anything you can do, you can do wrong. The less time you spend doing it wrong, the more time you have left to spend on improving that.

"Default zero" = best guesstimate of the proper aim point and dial setting during the prevailing condition, involves either sighter shots, or some guesswork during the initial shots of your string.

There are myriad ways to do it righter, but they take time, and time is the real equalizer.

My own shooting preferences involve firing strings of ten or twenty rounds at known distance, working under a time limit.

Greg