What do you consider "proficient"?

[King]

Hey all,

I am new to ARs in general but I bought a Mk 12 Mod 1 and am using the KAC BUIS on it, the spec 200-600 version. I want to get good with them before I put a scope on the rifle.

My question is what do you all consider to be "proficient" for accuracy with these sights? I can ring steel torso targets fairly consistently at 400 meters and in when I take my time, haven't tried much passed that yet. I painted a couple quarters and other small objects orange but had a terrible time getting them at 100 meters. I was very close but but no cigar. When I add an optic I think they might come into reach as the biggest obstacle was seeing them well.

I know there is no such thing as too much practice but when should I jump to the next stepping stone, or when did/would you?

Also, I have had people tell me these are "Minute-of-man" sights. So what is the smallest target you would go after with these on your AR. I had one guy tell me quarters but I proved to myself that I don't think he was exactly truthful... I'm leaning towards a 4x4 plate at 100 meters.

Thanks,

Martin

 

[Redmanss]

Re: What do you consider "proficient"?

Shooting a quarter at 100m with iron sights, while actually keeping your eye's focus on the front sight tip like you're supposed to, would be extremely difficult. You just can't maintain focus on the tip while placing it on what is essentially a .5moa target. Your 4x4 target would be a good point to work on, but quite frankly I'd go ahead and scope it.

If you want to work on your iron sight proficiency, I suggest taking up some CMP/NRA matches if you have any in your area with a purpose built rifle.

 

[spartanops]

Re: What do you consider "proficient"?

Doing head shots at 500m on a man sized target
unless your me than you do head shots 550m

And shooting a quarter at 100m that is very good to see if you are applying correct shooting techniques.

 

[fastex500]

Re: What do you consider "proficient"?

I believe Appleseed and CMP go for 4 MOA, so 4 inchs at 100 yds, 20 inches at 500 yds, or a basic man sized target with irons at 500 yds... basic marksmanship qualification. If you can hold 2 MOA with irons at distance, I would think that is respectable. Or you can go by our mil standards:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marksmanship_Badge_(United_States)

http://www.usmcweapons.com/articles/m16/m16%20Qual/currentcourse/currentm16qual.html

 

[kraigWY]

Re: What do you consider "proficient"?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CMP go for 4 MOA, so 4 inchs at 100 yds</div></div>

You misunderstand CMP.

The GSM (Grand, Springfield, and Vintage Military) rifle matches are normaly 30 rounds 10 Standing, 10 Prone Rapid, 10 Prone Slow fire. That is with pre' 1955 military surplus rifles.

Even with a good target grade AR or M1A, 4 MOA off hand is pretty dern good. Check the sores of the Off Hand Phases at Camp Perry.

Now what is proficient. Proficient is being able to do the job you're called upon to do. If its target shooting, its a gun capable of keeping all the shots in the X ring. If its a LE Sniper Rifle its the ability to make head shots to save a hostage. If its a deer rifle, then the gun has to be capable of keeping all the rounds in the heart - lung area.

OR in the case of the LE sniper a 2 MOA rifle will allow head shots to 350 years (assuming the size of the average head is 7 inches).

If none of the above can be accomplished, then its the shooter.

Any dicent modern military rifle should be able to hold 2 MOA with iron sights, meaning, using the armys E-target (19 x 40) the gun is capable of hitting that target at 950 yards. Or clean the NRA High Power 1000 yard targets.

But we can't, not because the rifle isnt capable, its because we arn't.

Now back to the CMP and Appleseed, like any other school or course, they give you the fundamentals. Fundmentals are useless if you don't do anything with them.

No school is going to make you a proficient shooter, they will however give you the fundamentals to build on. To become proficient, it takes months and months and thousands of rounds of practice. Never ending practice............use it or loose it fits as true to shooting as any where else.

Proficiency doesn't come with the rifle, nor all the gimicaks you put on the rifle but from the shooter using that rifle.

So my take on Proficiency is limited only by the shooter regardless of the tools he uses.