What does it take host a sniper's challenge?
- Thread starter zgilbert
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Re: What does it take host a sniper's challenge?
Only advice I can offer would be to find local matches, and attend a few of them to see first hand how things are setup and run.
Then take what you can and try a couple monthly matches of your own to work out the bugs. Then if you feel comfortable with a bunch of guys running around with rifles give it a try.
Thats basically what I'm doing. Keep in mind its not cheap to setup a decent range. Steel is expensive, frames are time consuming to make and appropriate berms and other saftey things take time to figure out.
Good luck
Only advice I can offer would be to find local matches, and attend a few of them to see first hand how things are setup and run.
Then take what you can and try a couple monthly matches of your own to work out the bugs. Then if you feel comfortable with a bunch of guys running around with rifles give it a try.
Thats basically what I'm doing. Keep in mind its not cheap to setup a decent range. Steel is expensive, frames are time consuming to make and appropriate berms and other saftey things take time to figure out.
Good luck
Re: What does it take host a sniper's challenge?
Do yourself a favor, make your first match an invitation only, no fee match. Invite a select few who actually know what the hell they are doing...and LISTEN to what they say.
Know-it-all jack asses have no place as newbie match directors. Just look at the 3 pages of BS that arose from the mammoth match.
Do yourself a favor, make your first match an invitation only, no fee match. Invite a select few who actually know what the hell they are doing...and LISTEN to what they say.
Know-it-all jack asses have no place as newbie match directors. Just look at the 3 pages of BS that arose from the mammoth match.
Re: What does it take host a sniper's challenge?
first challenge is to find enough safe angles you can have the shooters entertained.....also if you are moving a lot, which you should be for different shots you have to find out how to get people to and from stations.
The thing i couldn't believe the first time i held one, is how long it can take for ten people to fire 20 rounds each, over 14 stages.
figuring the shots is fun, but if they are reactive you have to make sure they auto reset or the range has to go cold while they are reset. I have a mover that must be manually reset. it is a hoot and worth it, so we shoot it last and everyone chit chats while the quad runs out and sets it up again.
anyway, good luck.
first challenge is to find enough safe angles you can have the shooters entertained.....also if you are moving a lot, which you should be for different shots you have to find out how to get people to and from stations.
The thing i couldn't believe the first time i held one, is how long it can take for ten people to fire 20 rounds each, over 14 stages.
figuring the shots is fun, but if they are reactive you have to make sure they auto reset or the range has to go cold while they are reset. I have a mover that must be manually reset. it is a hoot and worth it, so we shoot it last and everyone chit chats while the quad runs out and sets it up again.
anyway, good luck.
Re: What does it take host a sniper's challenge?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do yourself a favor, make your first match an invitation only, no fee match. Invite a select few who actually know what the hell they are doing...and LISTEN to what they say.
Know-it-all jack asses have no place as newbie match directors. Just look at the 3 pages of BS that arose from the mammoth match. </div></div>
WOW!!! Personal attack??? Seriously though, do look at AARs for several different matches. They can be a big help. The posts you read that are important will be obvious. They will be the ones that are well thought out and give specific likes and dis-likes. The posts you read where two guys are arguing or questioning peoples integrity are the BS that is being referred to. Read the constructive ones and this should give you a good starting point. Expect growing pains and be open minded when receiving feedback.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do yourself a favor, make your first match an invitation only, no fee match. Invite a select few who actually know what the hell they are doing...and LISTEN to what they say.
Know-it-all jack asses have no place as newbie match directors. Just look at the 3 pages of BS that arose from the mammoth match. </div></div>
WOW!!! Personal attack??? Seriously though, do look at AARs for several different matches. They can be a big help. The posts you read that are important will be obvious. They will be the ones that are well thought out and give specific likes and dis-likes. The posts you read where two guys are arguing or questioning peoples integrity are the BS that is being referred to. Read the constructive ones and this should give you a good starting point. Expect growing pains and be open minded when receiving feedback.
Re: What does it take host a sniper's challenge?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go shoot a match at Rifles Only to see how a match should be run, then shoot one almost anywhere else to see how a match shouldn't be run. </div></div>
So unless its a match at RO then its not how a match should be run? Thats a pretty broad statement to make.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go shoot a match at Rifles Only to see how a match should be run, then shoot one almost anywhere else to see how a match shouldn't be run. </div></div>
So unless its a match at RO then its not how a match should be run? Thats a pretty broad statement to make.
Re: What does it take host a sniper's challenge?
It is a pretty broad statement to make. There are other people who run good matches. While I appreciate what he said, I've never been to one which was run so badly that I wouldn't return for another match.
However, I shoot matches primarily to test my ability to shoot whatever the match director comes up with, and I don't get upset with what I'm faced with - because I <span style="font-style: italic">always</span> learn things.
I do have to say that I've been to a couple where there were unqualified Range Officers who should have been been better trained, or doing something else. But one hopes that lessons are learned.
At Rifles Only, we always have a post-match analysis meeting to discuss what worked and what didn't - and we always learn lessons we use to refine future matches.
It is a pretty broad statement to make. There are other people who run good matches. While I appreciate what he said, I've never been to one which was run so badly that I wouldn't return for another match.
However, I shoot matches primarily to test my ability to shoot whatever the match director comes up with, and I don't get upset with what I'm faced with - because I <span style="font-style: italic">always</span> learn things.
I do have to say that I've been to a couple where there were unqualified Range Officers who should have been been better trained, or doing something else. But one hopes that lessons are learned.
At Rifles Only, we always have a post-match analysis meeting to discuss what worked and what didn't - and we always learn lessons we use to refine future matches.
Re: What does it take host a sniper's challenge?
Lindy,
Thank you for that well thought, reasoned post. I agree with you 100%, shooting matches with different challenges put on by different people makes you a better shooter.
I went to the Mammoth match with that mind set, had a good time and learned a lot. The Mammoth match made me a better shooter. I learned a lot about how to mil targets etc there last weekend.
Good advice from others on this thread re attending a few matches to get some ideas on how to do yours. The Rifles Only matches are excellent as they've done many of them over several years. As a potential future match director, you can definitely learn a lot from how the Cup and Bash are set up and run. Do yourself a favor however, and check out a match or two elsewhere for some variety.
Lindy,
Thank you for that well thought, reasoned post. I agree with you 100%, shooting matches with different challenges put on by different people makes you a better shooter.
I went to the Mammoth match with that mind set, had a good time and learned a lot. The Mammoth match made me a better shooter. I learned a lot about how to mil targets etc there last weekend.
Good advice from others on this thread re attending a few matches to get some ideas on how to do yours. The Rifles Only matches are excellent as they've done many of them over several years. As a potential future match director, you can definitely learn a lot from how the Cup and Bash are set up and run. Do yourself a favor however, and check out a match or two elsewhere for some variety.
Re: What does it take host a sniper's challenge?
To host a good solid match is simple.
This is how I do it
1. Make it safe and account for each bullet down range and its location of fire in a bullet stop.
2. Find three or four skill sets you want to test.
3. With these skill sets design 6 drills for the four skill sets.
4. Go to the land and design a set of targets that fit the skill sets.
5. Shoot it, and adjust to 2 drills per-skill set.
6. Find the fastest skill set drill of the two you like.
Now you have 4 stages with time.
Find people to help run it and make it happen with safety and fairness.
To host a good solid match is simple.
This is how I do it
1. Make it safe and account for each bullet down range and its location of fire in a bullet stop.
2. Find three or four skill sets you want to test.
3. With these skill sets design 6 drills for the four skill sets.
4. Go to the land and design a set of targets that fit the skill sets.
5. Shoot it, and adjust to 2 drills per-skill set.
6. Find the fastest skill set drill of the two you like.
Now you have 4 stages with time.
Find people to help run it and make it happen with safety and fairness.
Re: What does it take host a sniper's challenge?
I know ours is a massive undertaking with several hours put in by our team..so good luck
I know ours is a massive undertaking with several hours put in by our team..so good luck
Re: What does it take host a sniper's challenge?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go shoot a match at Rifles Only to see how a match should be run, then shoot one almost anywhere else to see how a match shouldn't be run. </div></div>
So unless its a match at RO then its not how a match should be run? Thats a pretty broad statement to make. </div></div>
Truth hurts, come to TEXAS and shoot down here with us, I would come there but there are no matches in your AO
But really the scoring system the Rifles Only uses is the best I have seen, hits are hits and misses are misses, at the end points are talleyed up and its easy to see and understand how well or bad you did, Tigervalley and TacPro both use a percent system for each stage, and then the average of each stage determines the overall score for the match again in percent, this is confusing for both the score keepers and competiters, the proof in that is the scores are almost always f-ed up.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go shoot a match at Rifles Only to see how a match should be run, then shoot one almost anywhere else to see how a match shouldn't be run. </div></div>
So unless its a match at RO then its not how a match should be run? Thats a pretty broad statement to make. </div></div>
Truth hurts, come to TEXAS and shoot down here with us, I would come there but there are no matches in your AO
But really the scoring system the Rifles Only uses is the best I have seen, hits are hits and misses are misses, at the end points are talleyed up and its easy to see and understand how well or bad you did, Tigervalley and TacPro both use a percent system for each stage, and then the average of each stage determines the overall score for the match again in percent, this is confusing for both the score keepers and competiters, the proof in that is the scores are almost always f-ed up.
Re: What does it take host a sniper's challenge?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go shoot a match at Rifles Only to see how a match should be run, then shoot one almost anywhere else to see how a match shouldn't be run. </div></div>
So unless its a match at RO then its not how a match should be run? Thats a pretty broad statement to make. </div></div>
Truth hurts, come to TEXAS and shoot down here with us, I would come there but there are no matches in your AO
But really the scoring system the Rifles Only uses is the best I have seen, hits are hits and misses are misses, at the end points are talleyed up and its easy to see and understand how well or bad you did, Tigervalley and TacPro both use a percent system for each stage, and then the average of each stage determines the overall score for the match again in percent, this is confusing for both the score keepers and competiters, the proof in that is the scores are almost always f-ed up. </div></div>
Seriously, that was a foolish thing to say and you should back off it and stop digging before the hole gets any deeper. It wasn't helpful to the poster or the sport.
There are a lot of challenges and I thought Boyette pointed some of them out well re stage development and overall match theme.
I would add that the targets, use of rounds and other elements as well as the scoring system needs to both reward the super-ninja for his 1st round long range UKD hits, and give the greenhorn a chance to put SOME points on the scoreboard.
The stages should be mostly balanced out points wise too.
Flexibility - Some times things get bogged down and you have to literally pull stuff out of your ass. Change the order stages get fired in.... Drop stages.... Add other ones in on the fly... You <span style="font-weight: bold">have</span> to be able to react as things unfold.
People want to hit the target. That's why they come to the match. You need to let them if you want your match, and your sport to grow. If you send a newer shooter home with a page full of zeroes, he is not coming back to your match. No way, no how. As long as they get to hit the target, the satisfaction level changes dramatically. That a greenhorn hits it on round 4 and the super-ninja hits on round 1 is a function of scoring.
Every local match starts somewhere, and every big match started small. Keep it friendly, inclusive, challenging and fun and you will get some buzz going. That's what you build on.
HTH,
--Fargo007
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Outsy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go shoot a match at Rifles Only to see how a match should be run, then shoot one almost anywhere else to see how a match shouldn't be run. </div></div>
So unless its a match at RO then its not how a match should be run? Thats a pretty broad statement to make. </div></div>
Truth hurts, come to TEXAS and shoot down here with us, I would come there but there are no matches in your AO
But really the scoring system the Rifles Only uses is the best I have seen, hits are hits and misses are misses, at the end points are talleyed up and its easy to see and understand how well or bad you did, Tigervalley and TacPro both use a percent system for each stage, and then the average of each stage determines the overall score for the match again in percent, this is confusing for both the score keepers and competiters, the proof in that is the scores are almost always f-ed up. </div></div>
Seriously, that was a foolish thing to say and you should back off it and stop digging before the hole gets any deeper. It wasn't helpful to the poster or the sport.
There are a lot of challenges and I thought Boyette pointed some of them out well re stage development and overall match theme.
I would add that the targets, use of rounds and other elements as well as the scoring system needs to both reward the super-ninja for his 1st round long range UKD hits, and give the greenhorn a chance to put SOME points on the scoreboard.
The stages should be mostly balanced out points wise too.
Flexibility - Some times things get bogged down and you have to literally pull stuff out of your ass. Change the order stages get fired in.... Drop stages.... Add other ones in on the fly... You <span style="font-weight: bold">have</span> to be able to react as things unfold.
People want to hit the target. That's why they come to the match. You need to let them if you want your match, and your sport to grow. If you send a newer shooter home with a page full of zeroes, he is not coming back to your match. No way, no how. As long as they get to hit the target, the satisfaction level changes dramatically. That a greenhorn hits it on round 4 and the super-ninja hits on round 1 is a function of scoring.
Every local match starts somewhere, and every big match started small. Keep it friendly, inclusive, challenging and fun and you will get some buzz going. That's what you build on.
HTH,
--Fargo007
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