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Gunsmithing What Gunsmith School did you go to?

J

Janus4088

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Dec 3, 2009
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I am just about done with High School and I have been really considering getting a degree in gunsmithing. And since there are so many quality gunsmiths on this forum, I was wondering what school(s) you went to? Are there any you would recommend? What kind of curriculum is necessary and which is overkill?

Before I go on I should say that I am a very technical person, and I have an OCD eye for detail. I have experience building guns (2 AR15's and an AR10 - limited I know, but give me some time!), but nothing in the way of a bolt action, which is obviously what I want to get into. I have experience as a mechanic, don't know if that matters (I guess it shows I don't get overwhelmed by technical tasks?) as I have done 2 engine swaps (16v to vr6 in an MK2 golf, G60 with a thrown rod to a clean G60) as well as some minor jobs (brakes/rotors, 3 transmission transplants, turbo transplants, and some exhaust work).

Back to the main point, I live in California and see that Lassen community college has a gunsmithing program. But I do not know if gunsmithing is like some other fields where the college you go to really does matter, or if they all dull out the same knowledge and it doesnt matter where you go.

Someone with experience please enlighten me!
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

Do a search on this site and all/most of your questions will be answered. I don't think Lassen would be my first choice though. There are good schools in Oklahoma, Arizona, Colorado, and North Carolina.

You would make a lot more money as a machinist, if money is important to you. Gunsmiths traditionally do not make much money, but most of them do enjoy their trade.
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

If a gunsmithing education is limited near you, consider a manual machining certificate. Proficiency in that field will give you a strong foundation for building rifles and allow you to bring some less common knowledge to a rifle shop when you get a job. It's my opinion that the machining side of gun work is the part that benefits more from a formal instructional program. The gun side of things is something you can learn well in an apprentice/work experience environment. In terms of job security, a machining certificate (also consider CNC machining) will allow you more flexibility should the need for a new job arise.
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Nixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If a gunsmithing education is limited near you, consider a manual machining certificate. Proficiency in that field will give you a strong foundation for building rifles and allow you to bring some less common knowledge to a rifle shop when you get a job. It's my opinion that the machining side of gun work is the part that benefits more from a formal instructional program. The gun side of things is something you can learn well in an apprentice/work experience environment. In terms of job security, a machining certificate (also consider CNC machining) will allow you more flexibility should the need for a new job arise. </div></div>

This is the route Im going..
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do a search on this site and all/most of your questions will be answered. I don't think Lassen would be my first choice though. There are good schools in Oklahoma, Arizona, Colorado, and North Carolina.

You would make a lot more money as a machinist, if money is important to you. Gunsmiths traditionally do not make much money, but most of them do enjoy their trade. </div></div>


Which one do you reccomend in North Carolina???
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

Janus,

My father has taken most of the Short Courses offered through Lassen over the years and feels that it is a fairly good program. He spent 30 years teaching Industrial arts and running his own sucessful gun repair shop. I have also know several others who have graduated from the program and done well when they applied themselves. Arnie was working for Weatherby in Atascadero the last time I saw him. One advantage for you is that it will not have the out of state tuition like the others.

I have also heard good things about Yavapi College in AZ.

There was also a good discussion about this on the CAS City forum section on gunsmithing.
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

I and two other members of this board are going to Yavapai right now. The instructors probably have a combined total of around 120 years experience(4 instructors) We have class 4 days a week, 7 hours a day.

Dan Pederson is a Barrel maker. He makes Cut Rifled rifle barrels and is a great guy.

Alan Lohr started his trade at Robar(I think) a long time ago, and now is the head instructor of the school. He's knows the great guys at Mcmillan, and I cant say the school doesnt benefit from that. He did things with bolt guns 30 years ago people talk about coming up with today. Again, great guy.

Bob Sweda is our stock teacher. He's a professional walnut stock maker and has been doing it most of his life. His stocks can cost amounts I wont even mention here to this crowd(not an insult, I wouldnt pay it either!)
I'll admit stock making is not my fortay, but my father made a stock that was "one of the nicest I have seen". "I" being our instructor, Bob Sweda.

Lastly our Machine shop teacher... He's new to teaching and it shows. He great at machining, but didnt teach it well. He's being replaced next semester so no worries.

Happy to say my father and I got A's this past semester, and are looking forward to the rest.

If I had to rate the school, in all aspects, honestly I'd give it a B+

Keith
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

Hi

I think if you really want to learn something you start with toolmaking, cause the gunsmith business will most likely not being able to learn you how to proper use the machinery, and the classes are to short.

I decided to become a gunsmith when I was 10 years old.
I went to trade school to become a toolmaker when 15, and I have done jobs on others firearms since I was 13.
My mother couldent have her car in the garage after I was 17-18 as my machinery took to much space.
So i never went to gunsmithing school.

I cannot see anything wrong with gunsmithing schools, but I cannot not see anything good with them either if you not are fairly skilled with the machinery PRIOR to starting the school.


Håkan

Ps. I have quit my active gunsmithing, I am only into prototype work now and development.
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

I am the third of the group that Az Precision was talking about. I have an advantage over most of the students as I have been machining over 16 yrs. That said, I would seriously consider some machining courses prior to the gunsmithing courses. You don't have to take toolmaking courses, but with the limited time you get in gunsmithing classes, it will make things easier for you. When I went to school for tool and die, we went for two yrs and that is all we did. In the gunsmithing course you will have to divide your time between shotguns, stockmaking, etc. A lot of what you learn in machine shop classes you may never use, but it is one thing you won't have to worry about while learning the gunsmithing classes. You may still have to take the classes, just will be easier for you to go through.
As Keith has already said, the instuctors at Yavapai are topnotch. I am sure that at least two of them if not three has worked for the late Fred Wells at one time or another. Danny Pedersen was his barrel maker at one time and Bob Szweda was his stockmaker for a while. All current instuctors have a business in their chosen field. Haven't dealt with the pistolsmith as of yet, though I have met him. Will go through that this coming semester. Overall I would give the school a little higher grade than Keith. One thing that I like is Alan's philosophy that if you can build it you can fix it. You don't sit and do a lot of fixing, however you do have the opportunity for assembly/disassembly of various types of firearms.
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

I agree with Blackburn, concentrait on being a machinist, the better you are at being a machinist, the better you will do at gunsmithing. Not to throw cold water on anyone but, most machinist can be a gunsmith, but most gunsmiths can't be a machinist. I know that doesn't sound very kind, but I think you will understand my meaning.
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

I was a tool and die maker prior to getting into firearms. I have seen some beautiful guns from custom shops and it all starts with being a good machinist.
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

I will throw my support in for the content of the two previous posts.

My experience differs somewhat due to locale. In Texas, at least in South Texas, there are VERY few machinists and much less so than in your area (SJC).

Maybe I can't tell you where I went wrong if at all, but here is what I did. Mind you, I have spoken to several who have gone to a couple different smithing schools (I was really jealous cuz I couldn't afford it; the trip, the motel, the eats, the time, etc) and feel I may have made a good decision or, better yet, a different decision.

After I unloaded my SB 10L and leveled it I purchased Darrell Holland's Machining DVDs. Yep, they aren't free and not cheap in any shape or form but they still sit on my shelf and I refer to them occasionally as something covered escapes me. Plus, the practical test and written test got me thinking outside the box. There were some other goodies that came with it like stock for practical test (buy some more just like it!) and a Machinist Handbook.

Keep in mind, I am not trying to stand in the shadow of the preceding machinist's/smith's post nor experience...

After I got through the practical phase of Hollands DVDs (yes, I botched a few pieces of stock and finally bought a 3' piece to cover my upcoming botches) I had a gunsmith give me some barrel pieces-parts that had been thrown away. Another loaned me some muzzle brakes and I simply practiced indicating the bore, threading for the brake and then cutting a crown. Like shampoo instructions; wash, rinse, repeat. Thread both ends and keep it up till you need more stock.

Up to the point hunting season started I must have cut 25-30 threads, part them off, throw them away and start over.

Then I called a barrel maker and asked for some reject barrels to do what I just mentioned above. He was reluctant--rightfully so because of the masses of stupidity in America--and after he was convinced of my sincerity I got some reject blanks in the mail.

With this material, I can part, indicate, thread, etc and even on the breach side, there is enough to indicate, thread, counterbore, bore, chamber, etc., then part it off and make another.

This sight reeks with those of experience and offers of sincere and quality help. Try something like I mentioned and get one of these Snioper's Hide pros' address and stick some samples in a small USPS box and send it to them for critiquing. Go back and improve with new found knowledge and mail another set off.

When you get bored and want to cut your own barrel, chamber another half dozen and thread 10 or 12 more muzzle brakes.

Most of what I have annotated refer to smithing. Go find someone in your area who has a shop and drop in and ask when you could come back and ask questions or watch or both. Machinists appear to be few and far between--they love their vocation/avocation and there are very few who have anyone to visit about their craft with (except the NE, NW, Midwest, etc) and just like you and me (and what I am doing right now) they want someone to share with who wants to learn.

One machinist I was very hesitant to ask immediately said, "knowledge not shared is knowledge wasted." Do you know how much time this guy spent and shared with me?

Another DVD I purchased that was well worth the jack is one done by Precision Machining Supply in San Antonio. This guy goes over the SB and Bridgeport mill and will give you a bone to chew on for more than a bit.

What about my buddies that went to school? Two did not own a lathe and had no experience with one. One had Speedy Gonzalez--a renown shooter and smith--as his instructor. He said it was like sipping out of a firehose as he was diddling trying to sharpen a bit or center it for facing and others were hours past him.

As far as myself, would I go to one of these schools mentioned? I have not quite 100 hours making chips on my BP and SB, but by summer, I think I might be prepared to absorb most of the course.

Cheers!
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

Tool & Die Maker Journeyman since 1978. Read a lot of books. Never been to a "gunsmithing" school.

But I stayed at a Holiday Inn one night. Does that count?
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

I have worked around machine shops all my life. This is a trade that is all going over seas (China). You will not make a lot of money with this trade. The thing you have to decide is are you a craftsmen or businessman? A good gunsmith loves guns. Join the Marines and go to there school. This country is going towards Socialism and you will want the military back round.
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

Lassen is pretty decent according to my friends that go there every summer. They have a lot of guest instructors that teach there.
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

I learned how to cut threads and chambers from the internet:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I was learning how to chamber 10 years ago, I got information from:
1) Mike Bryant's site
http://www.bryantcustom.com/articles/rebarrel.htm
2) A Staff gunsmith at brownells who told me I didn't need a rougher and how to do the arithmetic to know when the chamber is deep enough.
3) Ed Shilen's drill, boring bar, reamer technique I have added doing that in stages, so the pilot is always engaged.
4) Roy Bertalleto in Feb 2000 posted a picture for me of a lathe spider on yahoo gunsmith
http://public.fotki.com/Rbertalotto/machine_tool/shop-pictures/p1010005.html
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Gunsmithing/message/818
5) At the Puyallup gunshow in 2003, Brett Evans (a gunsmith and benchrest competitor), said I need to put a piece of copper wire [gimbal] around the barrel in the 4 jaw so the spider makes the barrel pivot and not
just bend.
6) Daniel Cowen of Renton says he uses a Bushnell collimator bore sighter spud to dial in the spider in a steady rest, when a pin gauge will not reach, because there is already a chamber there.
7) Randy Ketchum of Lynnwood Guns and Ammo, told me he grinds a spud on the tool post grinder to within .0002" of the bore, so he use two test indicators on the spud to dial in the barrel near the chamber. He said all barrels are bent with a spine and just pay attention to the bore near the chamber. He said he pushed the reamer with the tailstock and countered the torque with a tap handle in a piece of shotgun barrel. The barrel runs along the ways, so it does not chatter, but he lifts the barrel off the ways with his finger to feel the torque is not too much. He pulls the reamer out every ~ .050", scrubs the reamer off in gas mixed with oil, slathers the reamer with cutting oil, and puts it back in.</div></div>
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

You need to go through a Machinist Apprenticeship program, I started right out of highschool and did my time moved into programing cnc machines and then tool and die it took me 20 years to accomplish this and now I'm in Engineering designing. My opinion is get the machinist background and you can do anything. I have an extensive background in toolmaking and I have done almost every operation in building guns, it's not rocket science, you just need to understand how things are made and the processes involved. I have a shop behind my house that has a CNC mill, lathes, Tig welder and I wouldn't be able to live without them. I do enough work for people that everything I do is payed for with my "fun money", keeps the wife happy. It's not uncommon to do two hours work and have $300. in your pocket, I do it all the time. It took time to build my shop but all along the way I was doing work for people, I had to be creative at times because I didn't have to proper tooling, but I got the job done and used that money to buy more machinery and tools. When you start doing work for people, word gets around and it comes to you. Good Luck and stay focused.
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

I have never made a dime gunsmithing, but I charge my standard rate when I make test fixtures with my amateur gunsmithing tools when working on engineering consulting.

It is like an underground economy in electronics for aerospace or medical equipment.
If someone needs a hole in a metal plate, they can fill out a purchase order request for purchasing to cut a purchase order to an approved and inspected supplier. Or they can hand me a sketch and the metal plate. I can drill or fly cut a hole overnight with no red tape.
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

It is like an underground economy in electronics for aerospace or medical equipment.
If someone needs a hole in a metal plate, they can fill out a purchase order request for purchasing to cut a purchase order to an approved and inspected supplier. Or they can hand me a sketch and the metal plate. I can drill or fly cut a hole overnight with no red tape.</div></div>

A Black Ops. machinist, now that's funny stuff.
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

Cartman,

Yes, that it what I purchased.

In addition to the lathe work he covers the mill and goes into some other machines, the basic uses and heads-up. This is not an add water and stir type scenario. You WILL spend considerable time with these DVDs.

As a duplicate word of advice, go down to your local metal supplier and purchase a few more pieces of stock so when you do your practical test you won't be at a dead end when you cut the sausage too short/thin. Keep working/practicing with the other cuts and whip out the new stock and start from scratch.

Darrell Holland is a prince...very approachable and has the patience of Jobe. If you have any questions, I have called him and he took the time to hold my hand and walk me through the saga. He loves to teach and his love for machining and long-range shooting is very self-evident.

Once you get going and snag on something, look at the guys/gals on this forum and a couple others. These people will be on your question/problem like a rat on a cheetoe. They have patience and gobs of experience. You will be deeply moved and impressed.

Cheers!

Wally

P.S. Go to Mr Holland's website and see if he has other instructional DVDs on gunsmithing. They will augment and reinforce what you get from the set.
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

You can rent some of Holland's and other gunsmithing and metalworking DVD,s at smartflix.com.

I went to Lassen after I had taken some machine shop classes at the local Community College before I attended and it sure helped put me ahead in the program.
Ken
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

All I can say is Colorado school of Trades is not recommended.. I agree with most, get some good machining experience.
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Moondawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All I can say is Colorado school of Trades is not recommended.. I agree with most, get some good machining experience. </div></div>

Just curious why? I read this on here once before and again no reason. Just curious.
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

The school spends way to much time on stuff you will never use. And they spend way to little time on the skills that is 90% of what you need to know.
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

If you are going to be anything other than a Dremel, file and hammer gunsmith, you're going to need to know at least the very basics of machine work. If you are considering being a very good gunsmith, you will need to be at the very least a decent machinist. And a little welding, brazing and soldering thrown in won't hurt.

As to what school you attend or if you start out like I did deburring parts for minimum wage, it's the experience that matters. One screw up on someone's $5,000 rifle and you're name will be MUDD. I don't care if you graduate the most prestigous school in the land. Being able to do the work is what matters. Can you make a spring? Can you make a special thread screw? Then can you heat treat it? The parts that you can't buy already made is what makes the difference between a skilled craftsman and an also ran.

I'm not intending to throw rocks at anyone. I'm just trying to state the truth as I know it. As I'm no longer doing commercial work, I wish each of you the best in business.

Good luck.
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

I completed the AGI master gunsmithing program and got my first two jobs doing repairs, fitting, bluing, bedding jobs, trigger jobs etc. a few years later I started the Yavapai college gunsmithing program and have one semester left. If you are thin skinned and not a self starter and cant follow directions this school is not for you, Half our class did not make it to the second year mostly because of their own poor work ethic. once you get through the first year the stress tapers off. The education and machine time (lathe/mill) is incredible. each student has his own bench. there are approx. 8 mills and 15 lathes surface grinders, beed blasters, band saws, stock bending set up, welders, bluing room etc a well equipped shop. the head instructor, alan lohr will instill skills in you that you did not know were even there. His attention to detail is pretty incredible. He doesnt miss a thing. And you really start to appreciate it as you go through the program. The stock, rifle and handgun instructors are also excellent. take a look at the web site. I have seen them give tours to perspective students.
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

I went to Murray State in OK........had a great experience

Would do it over again if i could

Clint
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

S. Dakota has what's called the "Dakota Seeds" program.

Essentially it's a state funded "indentured servant" program designed to get guys working in a field related to school.

For instance, School of Mines ME program. Go to school and come work for me. Pay ya $15/hr and the state and I split the wage.


Great way for the small business owner to test out the deeper end of the gene pool w/o going broke trying to make payroll.

I've considered it as my business is growing like a weed and with the new shop coming online it's only a matter of time before I begin reviewing resumes.

Just something to consider.

C
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

I went to Trinidad State. Did the two year degree and stayed for the third year Advanced program. I wish I would have took some machine classes before I went. They even offered a CNC class while I was there but I was a knot head and decided I would never need that stuff..... Well when I got out I went straight to work for Maryland Gun Works who was building my dads PPC revolvers. After four months the owner and main gunsmith decide he was going to go back into law enforcement and shut down the gunsmithing side of the company. Lucky for me his son ran the machine shop (MGW ltd.) that makes all the MGW sight tools and a few other products. And also their main buisness is being an OEM supplier for other gun related companies. So I started running CNC machines. That was 16 years ago. And the boss, (the owners son) is into cars and has us making shifters for Mustanges, Vetts, Cameros and Vipers and less gun products. Now all I want to do is get back into gunsmithing and have started collecting tools and looking at some used machines to start a future shop. Im also building my gun book library on everthing related to gunsmithing and searching sites like the "Hide" for anything usefull.

The "Hide" has helped me realize that I want to build some rifles and learn about blue printing and such. How ever, when time comes for me to leave MGW, i want to be able to show what I can do, no have a list of classes I have taken. I may have a resume to hand them, but the proof will be in the gun cases I hand them and say "This is what I can do"

I have a five year plan in mind. My youngest child is about to start high school in the fall. My house will be paid off in less then five years, and we only have a couple years left on my truck and jeep. When she graduates......If I get the urge or an offer to go to work for a custom builder or a manufacture, I will be free to do so.

TAKE EVERY MACHINE SHOP CLASS YOU CAN AND LEARN HOW TO CORRECTLY USE MICROMETERS!!!!
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

All good.

And if there are any aspiring talents out there wanting to spread their wings in barrel making world, shoot me a PM.

JR
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheWolfpack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are the best schools in California for gun smithing? </div></div>
I think there in only one, Lassen College up in Susanville.

http://www.lassengunsmithing.com/

This guy Robert Dunlap is/was associated with their program. I spoke with him some years back about their program as opposed to others.

http://www.piscogunsmithing.com/
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

Janus, As most have mentioned above and what I have thought of as well - good machine skills put you head and shoulders above the average gunsmith. Look at some of C Dixon's work and some of other professional's (and diy guys) work here. Amazing . Look on some of the 1911 forums you'll see amazing work done by amazing machinests.

with that skill i think the sky would be the limit

If I were you age and starting fresh and since your in San Jose I would go to DeAnza take every machine class they offer then head up to Susanville and Lassen College.

There are always summer and midterm classes offered at both.
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

Central school of trades and Ghetto machining, thats my garage for you unedumicated types
 
Re: What Gunsmith School did you go to?

I didnt go to any gunsmith school at all. I worked for 25 years as an injection mouldmaker, at around year 15 I started taking a big interest in Rifle building and with the help of some well established buddies in the trade I began to find my feet and began fitting a few barrels, a few moderators, some glass bedding projects and it pretty much started from there. Ive been very fortunate to have a few years in precision engineering built up and managed to pretty much make every imaginable cock up before ever putting my hand to a full custom build. My past has really stood to me when I got into this game.
 
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