What is this M24?

sirhrmechanic

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So I have ended up down this rabbit hole of M24 isms. And while I know a lot about the Mk 13 having built one I know damn little about M24 so hopefully someone here can help.

Buddy is looking at this rifle at a LGS in the Midwest. Seller wants 4K for it. The information is all over the map about whether this is a refurbished gun that was an action and barrel etc. that was surplus. Not just a return stock with a new action put in it.

It also predates, I believe, the eurooptic m24 offering where they put together some 500 guns for about $3000 each. Saw them advertised here on the Hide.

This gun has sat in the LGS owners personal collection for some 10 years. Story is, It was ordered by a retired army officer But when it came into the LGS the buyer needed money and sold it to the gun store owner who has had it in his personal collection. It *might* have come from CMP. Because the CMP name is being used by the owner as part of his sales pitch. But I have no idea if that could be correct.

Should my buddy jump on this, run away, etc. What is this exactly? I post pictures with serial number and box which matches the rifle.

There is a pelican case with the gun but I am told that was added by the LGS owner.

FYI currently fitted with some kind of Burris scope that it did not come with. Added by LGS owner

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Other things to note: the stock is used and painted. It is definitely a field used stock.

I’ve got no skin in this. Except I am very confused by the whole M 24 “what is real and what is not” world. Like I said I never got into them or the 40s. Just the mark 13.

My personal recollection is that M24s Got destroyed not surplussed. Kind of like the Mark 13s where the stocks made it out, but the actions and barrels were destroyed. But that does not mean that some didn’t get out or somehow end up back at Remington or at CMP. Like I said I just don’t know the minutia of M 24s.

But I’m pretty sure the experts here can sort this out pretty quick.

Cheers, Sirhr
 
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Temper

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Didn't EuroOptic sell some M24's that had surplus stocks with new barreled actions like 3 years ago? Looks like one of those rifles.
 
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sirhrmechanic

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Didn't EuroOptic sell some M24's that had surplus stocks with new barreled actions like 3 years ago? Looks like one of those rifles.
Yes. But I don’t think the 500 EuroOptic guns had surplus stocks. I “think” the EuroOptic guns were new stocks and Remington Defense surplus (unsold) or contract overrun actions. But I don’t know for sure. That’s why this has turned into a rathole…

Also, this has been in hands of LGS owner for some 10 years. So not likely a 2019 EuroOptic. Unless LGS is BSing. And that never happens, right? But I tend to believe this is earlier.

We’ll find out soon enough when the real
M24 experts here see this in the morning. I sure ain’t one of them! But they are here on SH for sure!

Sirhr
 

MK20

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It looks like there is one of those QR Code things next to the serial. That would make it a pretty recent gun.

I did some quick looking and the serial prefix puts it at 2007 or later. Barrel codes would be helpful. Aparrently the RR code guns are known to have more issues.
 

sirhrmechanic

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It looks like there is one of those QR Code things next to the serial. That would make it a pretty recent gun.

I did some quick looking and the serial prefix puts it at 2007 or later. Barrel codes would be helpful. Aparrently the RR code guns are known to have more issues.
Good catch! I missed the code. But a check of the Remington Owners forum has it as a Dot Matrix Code, not a more modern QR code. It is supposed to be a serial number not a product code.

And the discussion was from 2014. From the thread, it sounded like these codes were showing up a bit before 2014.

But that is a great data point!! If the action has a Dot Matrix Code, it dates it for sure!

Sirhr
 

Temper

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Yes. But I don’t think the 500 EuroOptic guns had surplus stocks. I “think” the EuroOptic guns were new stocks and Remington Defense surplus (unsold) or contract overrun actions. But I don’t know for sure. That’s why this has turned into a rathole…

Also, this has been in hands of LGS owner for some 10 years. So not likely a 2019 EuroOptic. Unless LGS is BSing. And that never happens, right? But I tend to believe this is earlier.

We’ll find out soon enough when the real
M24 experts here see this in the morning. I sure ain’t one of them! But they are here on SH for sure!

Sirhr
I for sure remember someone selling some that had surplus stocks with new BA's. They came in a few different trims, from bare rifle to pretty much full setup with case. Might've not been EO but I specifically remember them. Here's another example I found with surplus parts on a new looking BA.
 

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Stevo86

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I’ve never seen a m24 go through the CMP. But Europtic was selling m24s with “return stocks” several years ago built on new Remington receivers and new barrels. That’s all I know
 
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deltawiskey

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Could be one of these maybe
Yes, it is one of these, I just compared your label with the one on my box.
Remington took surplus stocks and put new barreled actions in them and sold them in a couple different packages. Some were just bare rifles, all the way up to complete rifles / kits.
CMP had nothing to do with it.
DW
 

sirhrmechanic

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My recollection (and that was from reading/skimming here) was that the rifles were built on new actions (40x?) that were in inventory at Remington Defense? Contract overruns or from a cancelled contract?

Does that ring a bell with anyone? I know thus has been discussed here before in detail, but I could not find the thread.

Were the original actions and barrels destroyed like the Mk 13’s just leaving the stocks and accessory bits?

I have all kinds of sort of vague recollection s of how these came about. But no firm “history!”

Thanks to all.

Sirhr
 
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mjh30

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Sirhr, yup a Remington M24, Collectors Edition. New receiver and barrel on issued parts, stock, bottom metal etc. That particular rifle is around circa 2012-13. And was part of the program that Remington had to sell the rifles to prior Snipers etc but fell quickly to the wayside. Most were then sold off to distributors. The only thing interesting on this particular model was it was sold as a rifle only. They sold them as rifle only, rifle with scope, rife scope d-kit and then the whole enchilada. Marty B mentioned once that only approx 75 were sold in this particular configuration.
 

sinister

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Army rifles were sent to Remington under the M2010 contract. Being serial-numbered Army (United States Government) property, the receiver had to be intact.

In the M24 thread, Mike Haugen went over how Remington got a waiver from the government to keep everything NOT the receiver so the Army got a discounted price on their new rifles -- a brilliant move. Nothing M24 was recycled to M2010s except the serial-numbered receiver -- and if that receiver was damaged or too far gone the original was destroyed and a new one inscribed with the old serial number. These serial numbers are recorded in the DA (Department of the Army) Small Arms Master Registry.

If those rifles had gone to Anniston or Lexington - Blue Grass Army Depots they would have been stripped and anything usable destroyed or sent to the Defense Reutilization Management Office (DRMO, the performer formerly known as the Property Disposal Office, or PDO) to be auctioned off as usable surplus parts or scrap metal.

The RR serial line (Rebuilt Rifle? Recycled Rifle?) was produced using all-new Remington commercial Model 700 receivers. While there was an obvious profit margin in an entire rifle kit, I'd bet only a fraction of all M24s sent to Remington had anywhere near complete Basic Issue Item (BII) inventories (all the gear and gizmos in an intact coffin as sent from the factory to the National Inventory Control Point -- the first place where the government and not a Remington civilian employee took actual, no-kidding "This is paid-for government property" control of the entire set, to include Allen wrenches, spare hole filler screws, and lens paper).
 
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sirhrmechanic

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Army rifles were sent to Remington under the M2010 contract. Being serial-numbered Army (United States Government) property, the receiver had to remain intact.

In the M24 thread, Mike Haugen went over how Remington got a waiver from the government to keep everything NOT the receiver so the government got a discounted price on their new rifles -- a brilliant move. Nothing M24 was recycled to M2010s except the serial-numbered receiver -- and if that receiver was damaged or too far gone the original was destroyed and a new one inscribed with the old serial number. These serial numbers are recorded in the DA (Department of the Army) Small Arms Master Registry.

If those rifles had gone to Anniston or Blue Grass Army Depot they would have been stripped and anything usable destroyed or sent to the Defense Reutilization Management Office (DRMO, the performer formerly known as the Property Disposal Office, or PDO) to be auctioned off as usable surplus parts or plain scrap metal.

The RR serial line (Remington Replacement? Recycled Rifle?) was produced using all-new Remington 700 receivers.
Interesting. So the receivers were never destroyed. They were used to build new rifles sent back to the Army with new barrels, stocks, etc. for the later variant.

And Remington got to keep all the field-used goodies and build 'new' rifles around all the old parts using new receivers that have a RR-prefix serial number.

This makes a lot of sense! Yeah, genius move on the part of Remington or Remington Defense!

Thanks!

Sirhr
 
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sirhrmechanic

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This one being an 'early' one... it was sold to a veteran. Before they opened it up and before EuroOptic's big drop.

I see prices all over the map... at one point, there was some place selling them for $2k. But I've also seen folks asking (and maybe getting?) $7-8K... but these have really full kits of accessories and correct scopes. I also get the impression that the ones sold 'earlier' (aka not the EuroOptic ones) are a lot more valuable than the last ones?

This in mind, I am guessing that the asking price of $4k for the one my buddy is interested in is fair, but not a steal, either? Would that be a correct assessment?

Cheers,

Sirhr
 

schmi015

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    @sinister Knows what he's talking about. Honestly what is at your LGS in a refurbed M24 with used stock and a new barrel. You can get the euro M24 for $2900. I personally would value this at about $2200. To some people it might be worth more cause of the "used" nature of the stock. If it had the globe sights(irons) and all the accessories it could easily be $8-10k. $4k to me is a bit overblown. If I'm spending $4k+ on a .308 its coming from TACOPS.

    By doing this 1 for 1 swap remington didn't have to go through the regular procurement trials for the XM2010 since all they had to do was a bolt and barrel swap and drop into the 2010 chassis. It became a product improvement that had cost savings since remington got to sell some of the actions.
     

    sinister

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    Full disclosure: Mike Haugen is a good friend of mine, and I am a plank-holder in the Mike Haugen Fan Club. I personally think the man is a genius. He has un-common sense, and an uncanny ability to apply gun smarts to problems makes him a one-of-a-kind.

    For him to have had such a successful run in a big gun company (run by finance and investment specialists and money people who were NOT gun people) is even more impressive.

    The stuff that came out of his brain to help trigger pullers doing the job is nothing short of miraculous. XM2010 was a natural progression step.

    Where Mike wrote that the M24 was assembled from mass parts to present the Army sniper rifle is a tribute to the quality and simplicity of all its parts. If you wanted your own, today, I'd find a no-kidding good gunsmith-machinist to custom-build a rifle from the same or like component parts. You'll be pleased when you take ownership -- for about the same cost as one of these new-production guns using vintage catch-all leftover parts.
     
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    Random Guy

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    I have a very similar RR prefix M24R (M24 Rebuild) that I purchased in summer of 2015, as the rifle only with sling. I think it was $1900 or 1950 shipped. I bought the rifle only as I had already acquired the proper Leupold scope and rings earlier in 2015. (see pic #2) The M24Rs with the full kits were about $3800 to $4k at that time. I then spent about 2+ years collecting as much as the M24 kit as I could, and spent about the same amount as the rifle on all the goodies, maybe a bit more. Only 2000 M24Rs were made, and they are all collector items. (See attached info circa 2012-13ish)

    Fwiw, there were 3 new parts on each M24R, receiver, barrel and M24 trigger group. Probably too much liability to sell used/take-off M24 triggers that might have been messed-with while in service. That said, the M24Rs got the same special trigger that went through the same rigorous testing applied to military and LE M24s, etc. Everything on the rifle is correct and each was made by a dedicated gunsmith in the Remington Defense shop. Only the serial number is different from the military issued rifles. (As noted above, Remington's US Army contract did not allow any military M24 receivers to be sold, they had to be re-used for the XM2010 program or destroyed if unserviceable. Most M24Rs seem to have used the "RR" prefix serial number, but the earliest ones were reportedly “G” prefixes):
    This in mind, I am guessing that the asking price of $4k for the one my buddy is interested in is fair, but not a steal, either? Would that be a correct assessment?
    While the $4k price is a little high for the rifle at the LGS, I would value the rifle easily $3k, especially with the original box (the leather 1907 sling should be in the box too). To make it "correctly configured" requires a vintage Leupold 10x M3A Ultra scope, and Ultra rings, which are now about $1300 to $1500 for the combo. (I got my 1989 dated M3A scope w/ M24 take-off rings for $750 back in 2015, but prices have increased, same goes for the M24R rifle itself). I would use that info to negotiate the price re that rifle, as the correct scope is key to long-term collectability...

    If it had the correct M3A scope and Leupold Ultra rings, I have no doubt it would have already sold at $4k+. It requires some searching, but the M3A scope and rings are out there. Perhaps ask if they'd remove the Burris scope and sell the rifle for $2700 to $2900k, and start hunting for the correct scope and rings...which again will not be cheap, but in the end will preserve that rifle's collectability.

    Regarding Mike Haugen, I agree with everything positive that was said. I only know him via correspondence, but he is full is wisdom (and wit!).
     

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    Random Guy

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    Get a 30-06 chamber reamer and commit a little atrocity to make it the way God intended it be.

    Umm, I presume that is a joke, as that would instantly destroy the collectability of that M24R rifle with its US Army 'take-off' stock. Turning it from a $3-$4k rifle into a $1500 rifle, if that... There is only one way to get a Remington barrel marked as shown ("7.62 NATO"), and that's an M24R rifle. Indeed, one pays big money for a collectible receiver marked "M24", it's take-off stock, various M24 take-off parts like bolts and bottom-metal - and that honest to goodness M24 barrel too, with its unique 11.25 twist...(fwiw, M24Rs also shoot quite well too, even with high mileage they hold MOA or less, per Mike).

    Bottom-line: The value of those 2000 or so M24Rs will only go up over time, unless one gets irreversibly modified by Bubba...esp the barrel or the take-off stock. (Mine apparently got skate board tape on it during it previous life. Any patina is desirable, same as the USMC M40A1 'return' or 'take-off' stocks).
     

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    Defender3

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    I have a very similar RR prefix M24R that I purchased in 2015, as the rifle only with sling. I think it was $1900 or 1950 shipped. I bought the rifle only as I already had the proper Leupold scope and rings that I had purchased earlier in 2015. The M24Rs with the full kits were about $3800 to $4k at that time. I spent about 2 years collecting as much as the M24 kit as I could, and spent about the same amount as the rifle on all the goodies, maybe a bit more. Only 2000 M24Rs were made, and they are all collector items. (See attached info circa 2012-13ish)

    Fwiw, there were 3 new parts on each M24R, receiver, barrel and M24 trigger group. Probably too much liability to sell take-off M24 triggers that might have been messed-with while in service. That said, the M24Rs got the same special trigger that went through the same rigorous testing applied to military and LE M24s, etc. Everything on the rifle is correct and each was made by a dedicated gunsmith in the Remington Defense shop. Only the serial number is different from the military issued rifles. (As noted above, Remington's US Army contract did not allow any military M24 receivers to be sold, they had to be destroyed. Most M24R seem to have used the "RR" prefix serial number, but not sure about earliest ones).

    While the $4k price is a little high for the rifle at the LGS, I would value the rifle easily $3k, especially with the original box (the leather 1907 sling should be in the box too). To make it "correctly configured" requires a vintage Leupold 10x M3A Ultra scope, and Ultra rings, which are now about $1300 to $1500 for the combo. (I got my 1989 dated M3A scope and take-off rings for $750 back in 2015, but prices have really escalated, same goes for the M24R rifle itself). I would use that info to negotiate the price re that rifle, as the correct scope is key to long-term collectability...

    If it had the correct M3A scope and Leupold Ultra rings, I have no doubt it would have already sold at $4k+. It requires some searching, but the M3A scope and rings are out there. Perhaps ask if they'd remove the Burris scope and sell the rifle for $2700 to $2900k, and start hunting for the correct scope and rings...which again will not be cheap, but in the end will preserve that rifle's collectability.

    Regarding Mike Haugen, I agree with everything positive that was said. I only know him via correspondence, but he is full is wisdom (and wit!).
    I bought a M24 a few years back from a LGS in VA that had 7 or 8 in stock. I don't recall the story, but attached is a pic of the label. I ended up selling the rifle to fund another "want."
     

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    Random Guy

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    All standard Remington M700s have an alpha-numeric prefix (except for the earliest models from the 1960s/70s which have 6 or 7 digit numerical serial number). The M700 prefixes began I think in the 1970s or 80s? and were sequential, beginning with A, B, C, D, E, G, and finally RR in the early 201Xs. I think RR was the final prefix. The earliest M24Rs apparently had a G prefix (maybe 2012-13ish time period?), but soon there after they had RR prefixes. That prefix continued on all M700s until Remington went bankrupt. A few different 'RR' fonts have been seen during production.
     

    lonegunman762x51

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    I bought the full kit in the coffin from Remington back in the day. Not sure why they decided to dump the rifles and skip the kit sales, they had plenty of ex-military guys who wanted them. I do know that someone at Anniston stole nearly every set of iron sights from every kit before they shipped to Remington. Anytime you see someone selling from the Oxford or Anniston Alabama area, they are peddling the stuff they stole from Uncle Sugar.