What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

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remi308

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Minuteman
Mar 3, 2011
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Roseville, Ca
#1
What is your favorite FL sizing dies? I just sold off some Lee stuff I had picked up a Redding T7 Turret press and some Forster seating dies. What I need is a good FL sizer die for 223 AR and more importantly .308 Rem 700. Just interested in what FL you guys prefer and why?
 
#2
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

I like the Forsters just fine.
I think you'll like the T7 press. The one I had was built like a tank!
 
#7
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

"What is your favorite FL sizing dies?"

If I understand the premise of your question the answer is, "It hardly matters, at least not by brand." Any maker will occasionally put out a 'bad' die but they will all replace it. Otherwise, they all try very hard to stay within SAAMI specs and that's a range, not a specific target dimension. So, saying one brand of dies "holds tighter tolerances" begs another question, "Do they work toward obtaining the maximum or minimum internal size?"

For which ever, what does that have to do with matching the cases to MY chamber, which is cut to similar tolerances but entirely different SAAMI specifications? Bottom line, no matter the brand - or price - of a given FL die, how well it fits my rifle is pure dumb luck; it's certainly NOT brand dependant!

I've found Lee's FL sizers to be, on average, as 'good' as any other brand, on average. Fortunately, the SAAMI specs pretty well insure that a properly made sizer of any brand will work quite well. Otherwise, we can send a few fired cases to a custom sizer die maker and get a perfect fit but at great cost and for not a lot of accuracy benefit, if any at all.

That said, MY preference for a neck die in factory chambers is Lee's collet. When I want to "FL" size, I like to use that neck die in conjunction with a body die.
 
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#9
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Remi308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is your favorite FL sizing dies? I just sold off some Lee stuff I had picked up a Redding T7 Turret press and some Forster seating dies. What I need is a good FL sizer die for 223 AR and more importantly .308 Rem 700. Just interested in what FL you guys prefer and why? </div></div>


Remi308,

I use Redding dies in my Dillon 550 progressive and they are working very well for the rifles and different loads I build for them. If you are buying new dies for long range precision loading the Redding Type "S" Match Full Length dies are hard to beat. Redding Type S Match FL dies can't really be beat, read the German Salazr article on 2-stage sizing at the Rifleman's Journal website, fantastic stuff for a precision shooter.

The Redding dies cost a bit more and the requirement of buying several different size steel bushings (or Ti-Nitride coated bushings if you want the smoothest and longest lasting bushings) add to the expense. But IMO and experience Redding Type S Match FL dies are the ones to buy for full length resizing.

The Redding Competition seating dies are also unbeatable in terms of preserving the concentricity improving action of the Redding Type S Match FL dies. The Redding Competition's seating precision and micrometer adjuster is a huge plus for a hand loader with several different rifles and loads to build ammo. Buy the Redding Type S Match FL die set with a Redding Type S Match FL die and Competition Bullet Seater for your precision .308Win loads and you won't be disappointed with the results.

HTH!
 
#11
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

I have "favorites" too but, other than the Lee Neck Sizers, I don't mention what they are because I KNOW I have no valid, on target, accuracy results to support my preferrence over any others. So, I don't say what my favorite is because it's basically irrelivant info to the OP.

Design features are valid points. I love Forster's height adjustable expander buttons. I love Lee's long expander that reduces expander drift during withdrawal. (I also love Lyman's M die expander dies that allow me to remove a standard expander from the sizer and still get proper necks without adding runout after resizing). I love Lee and Hornady's collet decap rod holder that insures very good centering. But all that is aside from the inner dimensions of the sizer itself.

Individual sizer dies vary no matter who made them so there is NO way to predict what any brand of individual sizer will do.
 
#12
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have "favorites" too but, other than the Lee Neck Sizers, I don't mention what they are because I KNOW I have no valid, on target, accuracy results to support my preferrence over any others. So, I don't say what my favorite is because it's basically irrelivant info to the OP.

Design features are valid points. I love Forster's height adjustable expander buttons. I love Lee's long expander that reduces expander drift during withdrawal. (I also love Lyman's M die expander dies that allow me to remove a standard expander from the sizer and still get proper necks without adding runout after resizing). I love Lee and Hornady's collet decap rod holder that insures very good centering. But all that is aside from the inner dimensions of the sizer itself.

Individual sizer dies vary no matter who made them so there is NO way to predict what any brand of individual sizer will do. </div></div>

^^^
Fuzzball,

Did you read the OP's post? He asked what people here like in full length sizing dies and why. I'm pretty sure we can rely on the fact that all of the major brands produce dies that are close enough to work for most any SAAMI spec chamber. So the question really being asked is what FL sizing dies are people using, how do they work and what features do they have that you like after using them for a while.

But thanks for your previous post where you say you like brand-X for no good reason, after all they are all the same.
 
#13
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

Did YOU read his post? Let me make it easy, when he said "..interested in what FL you guys prefer and why?" I noted the WHY part... because saying what we like without justification is NOT what the man asked for. You stated the Redding S dies are "unbeatable" and I strongly disagree with that as a blanket statement but I won't argue the point because it really makes no difference at all to me what you believe.

There is a difference, at least in perception, between saying there is no average effective difference between die brands and saying there is no differencein dies at all. But, everyone gets to live with his own pet delusions; at least until he actually measures a few dies and the results in each caliber, and from multipule die sets...you ever do that? Or don't facts matter when pet die choices are at stake?
wink.gif

 
#17
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did YOU read his post? Let me make it easy, when he said "..interested in what FL you guys prefer and why?" I noted the WHY part... because saying what we like without justification is NOT what the man asked for. You stated the Redding S dies are "unbeatable" and I strongly disagree with that as a blanket statement but I won't argue the point because it really makes no difference at all to me what you believe.

There is a difference, at least in perception, between saying there is no average effective difference between die brands and saying there is no differencein dies at all. But, everyone gets to live with his own pet delusions; at least until he actually measures a few dies and the results in each caliber, and from multipule die sets...you ever do that? Or don't facts matter when pet die choices are at stake?
wink.gif

</div></div>

Make me get off my ass and type shit...

I like Forster dies BECAUUUUUUUSSSEEEEE they have a higher up than normal expander ball AND because they have an "EZ" expander ball. When you pull the brass out of the die it comes out twice as easy as what it does on my RCBS and Hornady brand dies.

Combine that with a combo of a nice Micrometer Seater die, which I must add was the first of its class back when it came out, gives you a highly innovative product that kicks ass.

Its simple, its not over complex, i dont need to measure neck sizes or buy different bushings... I just screw it down, set it up for minimal sizing and away she goes.

Brass chambers easy every time, and returns to the same dimensions every time I size.
 
#19
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RTO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 on the Redding type S bushing die </div></div>

another +1
 
#21
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: vman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forster are my favorite dies </div></div>

if VMAN said it I believe it..haha.
 
#22
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Fuzzball said:
I have "favorites" too but, other than the Lee Neck Sizers, I don't mention what they are because I KNOW I have no valid, on target, accuracy results to support my preferrence over any others. So, I don't say what my favorite is because it's basically irrelivant info to the OP.

Design features are valid points. I love Forster's height adjustable expander buttons. I love Lee's long expander that reduces expander drift during withdrawal. (I also love Lyman's M die expander dies that allow me to remove a standard expander from the sizer and still get proper necks without adding runout after resizing). I love Lee and Hornady's collet decap rod holder that insures very good centering. But all that is aside from the inner dimensions of the sizer itself.

Individual sizer dies vary no matter who made them so there is NO way to predict what any brand of individual sizer will do. </div></div>

^^^
Fuzzball,

Did you read the OP's post? He asked what people here like in full length sizing dies and why. I'm pretty sure we can rely on the fact that all of the major brands produce dies that are close enough to work for most any SAAMI spec chamber. So the question really being asked is what FL sizing dies are people using, how do they work and what features do they have that you like after using them for a while.

But thanks for your previous post where you say you like brand-X for no good reason, after all they are all the same.

Thanks YAOG, I noticed some lee users tend to be a little itchy when it comes to this brand..ha. Lee is basically out of the question for me, The customer service was extremely rude and did not want to answer any questions. Redding and Forster I must say was more than willing to talk with me about their products and what makes them different.
Click to expand...
 
#24
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

Remi: "Fuzzball...Did you read the first post? ... thanks for your previous post where you say you like brand-X for no good reason, after all they are all the same."

Yeah, I read the question. Also read the question behind the question. So, did you read my answer? I was just trying to give you an experienced perspective but I know that isn't what a noob wants to hear, you really want absolute certainties in an area where none exist. Note that I didn't say or mean they are all the same, individually they are not, but there is no way to predict which individual sizer die will be 'better' than another, certainly not by cost or brand.

FACT is, all sizers are made to SAAMI cartridge tolerances and that's a plus/minus tolerance range, not a specific point that any maker could aim for. Anything between the limits is as fully intoleance as any other. Or, what would you suggest the makers do, try working to the maximum tolerance for a tighter fit in a chamber or try to hold to the minimum tolerance because the ammo will always chamber easily? Or are you experienced enough to even have a clue which way might actually be 'better'? But, when a mistake is made any maker will replace a defective die ... and they ALL make occasional mistakes, even Redding and Forster if what I read on the net is true.

I was young and frisky and certain too once, I had firmly fixed ideas of exactly what was best and what was "junk" but I added experience and finally grew up. Now I still have some 50+ die sets in more than 32 cartriges and some by brands that were popular before you were born. I used to have a lot more but I've sold and given some away. From what I've used and measured the results from, I know the ONLY way to know anything about the perfomance of an individual sizer die is to use it and measure the results that come out, neither brand nor price nor the lock rings nor the customer service phone line guarantees a thing. (In 46 years of reloading, I am yet to resort to calling a tools maker to ask how to use it. This stuff just doesn't seem all that complicated to me. ?)

So, how many die sets and rifles have you worked with in coming to your fixed ideas of what is good and what is not? You're a bright boy and you will likely get to my point of experience and understanding too, eventually, if you stick with it ...and... IF you set your preferences aside long enough to actually try different stuff for its performance.

Now me, I just don't care what you use or why, nor did I tell anyone what I use because it's basically pointless to do so. Brands vary a LOT in my keeper die boxes and not many of the sizer brands match the seaters!

I wasn't attacking you in my response to the question. It would probably be better to just state your positions or questions and leave personally named sneer attacks out of it, then we will get along fine. I'm a sweet loveable fuzzball but if you keep that crap up you will find that not everyone here is as patient with immaturity as me.
wink.gif

 
#26
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

Fuzz: Young and frisky? Young or old people understand poor engineering. I was not Sneer attacking you..haha. I was just making a joke. I appreciate everyone's opinion of what works for them and thank everyone who has contributed to this post. So far I think the consensus is Redding type S bushing and Forster dies are the "shit" as the last poster said..haha
smile.gif
I always thought about trying the Type S bushing dies but not quite sure how they work.??
 
#27
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

By the time you fix it the way you want it the die brand doesn't really matter.
Semi autos often ding case mouths so a shooter will need to employ his sizer button if he doesn't use it on his bolt gun brass, or run a mandrel.

I prep cases on a Dillon, making running a mandrel convenient, sizing without de-capping which to me is smoother. De-capping is the first step.

Aggressively polish the die body, button, mandrel often. Have your machinist bore the sizer body the diameter you want, including the neck making neck bushings unnecessary.

Once I polish the body and button on an RCBS and LEE they're fine with an edge in my opinion towards LEE. Hornady seems to require less tuning. F/B and Redding are nice.

If you do all this one might as well buy custom, you think?
 
#28
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

If your taking Fl dies only, the my vote is the RCBS X Die. It actually works as advertised, and reduces the need/frequency of triming brass.

For a .223 AR you'd want to use the small base X die, and the regular flavor for the .308.

Note: I do not buy X or any FL die sets. I like to mix and match. I start with an RCBS FL X Die only, add a neck die (Redding or RCBS), then add a seater die (any of the micrometer type: RCBS Comp, Forster or Redding) they all work.

I do not use bushing dies of any kind.

Bob
 
#29
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

"I always thought about trying the Type S bushing dies but not quite sure how they work.??"

Yeah, I understand why that may be a valid concern.

 
#30
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"I always thought about trying the Type S bushing dies but not quite sure how they work.??"

Yeah, I understand why that may be a valid concern.

</div></div>

Heard people talk about the perks of them, but I have not had the chance to hold one or read about the design. Why do you come into my thread just to be a smart ass? Go somewhere else if I somehow offended your fragile sensibilities.
 
#31
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

I'll stick with the standard 223 Forster benchrest set for AR and When I spoke with Forster they said for a small fee they would machine the FL die for .308 to match my chamber. Sounds like a great way to go to me.
 
#32
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?


By selecting the correct bushing, you are now able to provide just the right

amount of neck tension to properly hold the bullet without excessive resizing.

Redding Type S

With bushing dies , you must use brass from one brand , due neck wall thickness and case volume is different in other brands...
 
#33
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

1) 223 Lee Collet neck die modified by polishing:
a) collet
b) collar
c) mandrel/ decapping pin

2) 223 Forster FL die with
a) the neck honed out to .245" on one of Forster's Hardinge Collet lathes
b) expander ball and decapping stem removed


3) 223 Redding FL "S" die with .246" bushing looks the best and cost the most, but gets the worst results in controlled experiments for brass life, brass growth, and concentricity. I used it for years.... because I was slow in the head.
 
#34
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

"Go somewhere else if I somehow offended your fragile sensibilities."

You don't have the ability to 'offend' any of my sensibilites but your reaction to my effort to help you get an understanding of what you're asking was amusing.

Go back up to Casey Simpson's post and get some valid info.

What in the world are the "perks" of a die???
 
#35
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

Another problem, by the way, I've experienced with a few sizer dies is bottoming out on the shell holder preventing sufficient shoulder set-back. I tried removing material off the shell holder but that is a poor remedy. It weakens the shell holder. A better remedy is to take of a few thousandths off the bottom of the die, and its very easy to do with a drill and a disc sander.
 
#36
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

Another problem, by the way, I've experienced with a few sizer dies is bottoming out on the shell holder preventing sufficient shoulder set-back. I tried removing material off the shell holder but that is a poor remedy. It weakens the shell holder. A better remedy is to take of a few thousandths off the bottom of the die, and its very easy to do with a drill and a disc sander.
 
#37
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Go somewhere else if I somehow offended your fragile sensibilities."

You don't have the ability to 'offend' any of my sensibilites but your reaction to my effort to help you get an understanding of what you're asking was amusing.

Go back up to Casey Simpson's post and get some valid info.

What in the world are the "perks" of a die??? </div></div>

Perks would be advantages...like what sets it apart from other dies. You understand that? Now go away troll.
 
#38
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

Still trying to help you out a little; "perks" are the advantages or privilges of honor granted to an officer or other VIP. Devices don't have perks, "characteristics" or "features" of a device are what you're talking about,
wink.gif
 
#39
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

Have tried RCBS, Hornady, Redding and Forster. For me, Forster wins by a significant margin, and if you have it custom honed (which I highly recommend), it is better still. My Forsters have given me straighter ammo than the others I have tried. Having the expander higher in the die seems to help keep the neck lined up as the expander is pulled through. If you have it custom honed, you may not have to use the expander at all.

John
 
#41
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have tried Redding and Neil Jones custom. Neil Jones is the best of those two. I am sure there are other good ones out there.</div></div>

+1 for Redding and Neil Jones. Another alternative is if you know what chamber print your chamber was cut with, call Pacific Tool and Gauge. They have a special for a resizing reamer and die blank for $107. You'll need to have a friend that is good with a lathe cut the die blank and polish it internally for you. You're brass will last longer because you won't get as much stretching from excess crush on the body & shoulder.
 
#42
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

Forster CO-AX press and Forster Dies arrived, Loaded up a 100 rounds and had some really great results in both 308 and 223. Tried out some new Alliant powder- AR-Comp and 2000-MR. Really liking both powders. I'll stick with forster for now and I'll have to look up the Neil Jones stuff. Thank's to everyone who replied...Even you Fuzzball
wink.gif
 
#44
Re: What is your favorite FL sizing dies?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RTO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 on the Redding type S bushing die </div></div>
and another +1
 
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