What protection does a buyer have using a USPS MO to purchase?

[MDof2]

Does a buyer (me) have any protection on getting ghosted or something of that nature (misrepresented items are delivered, etc.) when paying via USPS MO?

Everything seems legit, and I don't want to sound paranoid, so I figured I'd check with the Hide peeps. I offered to do PP (even though they're anti-2A, but it offers some buyer protection) and pay the fees for buyer protection ($1200 scope purchase) but he's not a PP user. Seller seems legit. 10 year old account, 600+ post count, but no PX Feedback in his forum profile. Apparently had a ton of feedback in the old forum/system, but wasn't carried over, user name changed, something or other.
I've exchanged text messages with him, sorting out the details on the deal, questions, price negotiation, etc. Just haven't finalized it yet as far as payment is concerned.

Again, everything seems legit, I'm just hypersensitive to getting fucked in the mailbox for a grand.

USPS MO red flags, or gtg?

 

[Arc Light]

Call him. If he won't take a call then walk away. Most scammers don't want to speak with you and will do everything they can to avoid it. When I sell something expensive I always give the buyer an opportunity to call and ask any questions. That usually puts them at ease.

A USPS MO offers the least amount of protection. About the only thing you can do if you are scammed is to file a complaint with the Postal Inspectors. It will most likely go nowhere unless the guy has scammed many, many people out of thousands of dollars.

 

[sawgunner2001]

This is (one reason) why I don't buy used stuff. Usually people want 70%+ of new price, its used, and I've been f'd too many times. In my experience, in the long run, it's cheaper to buy it new. There are exceptions to this, but they are few and far in between.

But to answer your question, a postal MO doesn't provide you with any protection other than filing a complaint with postal inspectors, that will likely do nothing with your complaint and will likely claim it's a civil issue.

 

[MDof2]

Call him. If he won't take a call then walk away. Most scammers don't want to speak with you and will do everything they can to avoid it. When I sell something expensive I always give the buyer an opportunity to call and ask any questions. That usually puts them at ease.

A USPS MO offers the least amount of protection. About the only thing you can do if you are scammed is to file a complaint with the Postal Inspectors. It will most likely go nowhere unless the guy has scammed many, many people out of thousands of dollars.

Yeah, the last week or so has been brutal for me, and I think his schedule has been hammered as well based on text response time, but via text, we're both on the same page: "let's speak verbally, hammer out the rest, etc." which I think would get me closer to comfort with it.

 

[168BTHPM]

A USPS MO offers the least amount of protection. About the only thing you can do if you are scammed is to file a complaint with the Postal Inspectors. It will most likely go nowhere unless the guy has scammed many, many people out of thousands of dollars.

This is very true. The only benefit of sending a USPS money order is you can cancel them and get a refund for up to 30 days if they have not been cashed. The post office will not get involved in any dispute resolution unless there is a common scheme to defraud and lots of money is involved.

The seller had to send you his contact info to send the money orders to, just use google and verify it.

If it bothers you that much just walk away, a $1200 scope deal is not the end of the world.

 

[Animal357]

There is little to no protection for the buyer. Great protection for the seller as they can't be canceled

 

[SWgeezer]

PP friends and family, you have no recourse whatsoever. You are sending a person money free and clear as you have no intent stated. There really is no safety net anymore on any money transfers.

 

[W54/XM-388]

There is little to no protection for the buyer. Great protection for the seller as they can't be canceled

Actually that is incorrect.

They are quite risky for the sellers to accept and a lot of scams are going around with folks cancelling the Postal Money Orders once people ship the product if they haven't actually cashed them in cash or used them for a purchase at the Post Office before hand.

Again, the best thing to do is simply arrange a video chat and chat on video, see the seller, see the buyer see the product and both can get a good idea of what's going on. Head outside and video chat as well in the front of both houses etc.

 

[NoDopes]

Anybody tried this?

GunTab: "The PayPal for guns"

Gun-friendly payments by credit card and bank account, for businesses and individuals. Open an account now.

www.guntab.com

 

[sharpshot50]

You cannot stop payment on a USPS money order at all. If you report it lost or stolen, they will begin an investigation that will take 30-90 days to complete, and if the money order gets cashed before they complete their investigation, there's generally nothing they will do to help you. If they do find that it was stolen or if it isn't cashed when their investigation ends, they will refund you or issue you a new money order, but even then, they charge something like $6.95 to do that.

If you're buying or selling outside of some service like eBay or Gunbroker where they specifically offer you various protections and you're not purchasing with a credit card, you're going to have very little recourse on scams whether you're buying or selling.

As a buyer, I would definitely speak with the seller on the phone and voice chat would be even better so they can show you the item you're buying, etc.

As a seller, I would make sure the buyer is aware that you will be waiting to ship until funds have cleared. Counterfeit money orders exist and you'll get hit with a returned check fee as well as the original deposit amount being removed if you cash one at your bank. If your local post office has enough cash to cover the money order, it's a safer bet to cash it there, but generally they don't keep thousands of dollars available for this.

 

[vvayvvard]

I offered to do PP (even though they're anti-2A, but it offers some buyer protection) and pay the fees for buyer protection ($1200 scope purchase) but he's not a PP user.

Just for your future consideration, Paypal G&S will absolutely not cover any lost funds if they so much as suspect you were using it to purchase firearms or firearm accessories. Admitting such will get both accounts locked and your money frozen.

 

[SWgeezer]

On the other side of the coin is the buyer trusting the seller to ship the item after funds have been received.

 

[Im2bent]

Just for your future consideration, Paypal G&S will absolutely not cover any lost funds if they so much as suspect you were using it to purchase firearms or firearm accessories. Admitting such will get both accounts locked and your money stolen (confiscated).

FIFY

 

[NiteQwill]

Having sold items approaching 10k online (SH and other forums), the best thing I do as the seller is offer a video chat (Google Duo, Facetime, WhatsApp, etc). Face to face. No BS. With the item in question in front of me and all questions answered to the best of my ability. I have not once had a buyer question sending funds to me once the meeting is over.

TL;DR... Video chat!

 

[MDof2]

Just for your future consideration, Paypal G&S will absolutely not cover any lost funds if they so much as suspect you were using it to purchase firearms or firearm accessories. Admitting such will get both accounts locked and your money frozen.

I'd be curious on that. Not that it applies in this case, but if I buy a scope off guy on ebay, pay via PP through the auction, I'm pretty sure I'm protected. Not entirely sure. But to your point, yes, 100% no doubt, PP will fuck you straight in the ass if they think you're buying / selling firearm related stuff. Question is where is that line of 'related', considering it's PP, it's a very dynamic line.

 

[ggmanning]

I have had legit sellers on here ask for it in the past. A little bit of a PITA but no different than any other preference in my experience. Go through the standard proofs of legitimacy regardless of the payment preferred.

 

[nn8734]

Does a buyer (me) have any protection on getting ghosted or something of that nature (misrepresented items are delivered, etc.) when paying via USPS MO?

Everything seems legit, and I don't want to sound paranoid, so I figured I'd check with the Hide peeps. I offered to do PP (even though they're anti-2A, but it offers some buyer protection) and pay the fees for buyer protection ($1200 scope purchase) but he's not a PP user. Seller seems legit. 10 year old account, 600+ post count, but no PX Feedback in his forum profile. Apparently had a ton of feedback in the old forum/system, but wasn't carried over, user name changed, something or other.
I've exchanged text messages with him, sorting out the details on the deal, questions, price negotiation, etc. Just haven't finalized it yet as far as payment is concerned.

Again, everything seems legit, I'm just hypersensitive to getting fucked in the mailbox for a grand.

USPS MO red flags, or gtg?

I use paypal conmected to a credit card or g/s if item is eligible for buyer protection for significant dollar transactions and keep everyone ive done deals with on a speadsheet so i can quickly search if the name isn’t already familiar to me when i want to buy something from another member.

If your up for it, feel free to pm me with the seller’s Hide user name and i can see if its someone ive dealt with before and if so, at least i can give you some confirmation, if so. Also search the user name on google or prefered s/e to see what comes up of you havent done so already. Also run a phone no look up using open source intel sites to see what if anything come up.

Otherwise video/face time chat is prob the best way to get a comfort level you need to complete the transaction. Using some payment method with recourse protects you against loss if shit goes sideways.

 

[davsco]

i don't think there is any benefit to the buyer.

as a seller, i like to get them. they don't seem as easy to fake as personal checks and even bank checks. plus with the buyer going thru a little hassle to get them, it shows to me they're serious. i almost always state usps mo as the payment method in any ads i do (to hopefully weed out scammers or deadbeats) but sometimes if the actual buyer has great creds i'll say they can send a regular check if that's easier.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Call him. If he won't take a call then walk away. Most scammers don't want to speak with you and will do everything they can to avoid it. When I sell something expensive I always give the buyer an opportunity to call and ask any questions. That usually puts them at ease.

A USPS MO offers the least amount of protection. About the only thing you can do if you are scammed is to file a complaint with the Postal Inspectors. It will most likely go nowhere unless the guy has scammed many, many people out of thousands of dollars.

me to! I believe communication is key

 

[vvayvvard]

I'd be curious on that. Not that it applies in this case, but if I buy a scope off guy on ebay, pay via PP through the auction, I'm pretty sure I'm protected. Not entirely sure. But to your point, yes, 100% no doubt, PP will fuck you straight in the ass if they think you're buying / selling firearm related stuff. Question is where is that line of 'related', considering it's PP, it's a very dynamic line.

Paypal shuts down my account. Claims a rifle scope is in violation of policy?! - AR15.COM

Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear.

www.ar15.com

Anything gun-related is a roll of the dice. I've never had to file a claim for an item that was misrepresented or showed up in worse condition than advertised, so I can't speak on the topic personally... but I imagine the claim investigators would want to see pictures of the ad, and pictures of the item as it appears in your possession.

 

[mosin46]

they are safe as anything. essentially the same as cash. of course the PO loses stuff frequently. have had numerous sent by and to me lost but they pay those claims with amazing,hassle free speed after 30d. i've done literally 100s of deals here,gun broker,gunboards,old ak47.net and others. been lucky but never a prob. have not and will not ever use any of the digital,web or electronic S _ _ _. they are all essentially anti gun. got PP when it first came out 2 bogus hits on the CC 1st week. friends waiting 6 mos for their $ because they were "unknown" sellers. done with it fast. their popularity here amazes me. nothing there but something else for NSA &/or google to record. and more $ for the corporate elites. of course everything falls into that category on line. knowledge,caution and rep (and faith in like minded people) are the the best bets.

 

[vvayvvard]

There was a post here just a few days ago or so about USPS MOs being susceptible to fraud. Supposedly, the buyer can reverse the payment on the MO, and if they have not already been cashed by the seller, they become worthless. Something to consider, assuming that's actually true.

 

[TXAZ]

If it’s not FTF or they take Mastercard, no deal.

 

[mosin46]

they can be checked for forgery at the PO. it does happen i am told. i always check but,i am retired and have the time and a close PO.

 

[TurboTrout]

Does a buyer (me) have any protection on getting ghosted or something of that nature (misrepresented items are delivered, etc.) when paying via USPS MO?

Everything seems legit, and I don't want to sound paranoid, so I figured I'd check with the Hide peeps. I offered to do PP (even though they're anti-2A, but it offers some buyer protection) and pay the fees for buyer protection ($1200 scope purchase) but he's not a PP user. Seller seems legit. 10 year old account, 600+ post count, but no PX Feedback in his forum profile. Apparently had a ton of feedback in the old forum/system, but wasn't carried over, user name changed, something or other.
I've exchanged text messages with him, sorting out the details on the deal, questions, price negotiation, etc. Just haven't finalized it yet as far as payment is concerned.

Again, everything seems legit, I'm just hypersensitive to getting fucked in the mailbox for a grand.

USPS MO red flags, or gtg?

Level of protection with a money order: raw dog

 

[MDof2]

Anything gun-related is a roll of the dice. I've never had to file a claim for an item that was misrepresented or showed up in worse condition than advertised, so I can't speak on the topic personally... but I imagine the claim investigators would want to see pictures of the ad, and pictures of the item as it appears in your possession.

Yep. If you want to fast track yourself to a brain aneurysm, give PP a call and ask them.
I spent 45 minutes in chat and on the phone with them.
I'll save you the details but their AUP says

Prohibited Activities​

You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:​

1. violate any law, statute, ordinance or regulation.
2. relate to transactions involving (a) narcotics, steroids, certain controlled substances or other products that present a risk to consumer safety, (b) drug paraphernalia, (c) cigarettes, (d) items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity, (e) stolen goods including digital and virtual goods, (f) the promotion of hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory or the financial exploitation of a crime, (g) items that are considered obscene, (h) items that infringe or violate any copyright, trademark, right of publicity or privacy or any other proprietary right under the laws of any jurisdiction, (i) certain sexually oriented materials or services, (j) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (k) certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law

They absolutely will not under any circumstances define "or certain parts or accessories" so it's literally a guessing game.

tldr:
"we have rules"
fine, what are they?
"fuck you. guess"

So I don't know. Whatever. I'll try and get a call with the seller, and sort out the details. Otherwise, it is what it is.
Appreciate the help / comments / insight, folks!

 

[Al-Snackdadi]

Anybody tried this?

GunTab: "The PayPal for guns"

Gun-friendly payments by credit card and bank account, for businesses and individuals. Open an account now.

www.guntab.com

Yes, and it’s fantastic. Just like using PayPal goods and services. They charge a similar fee(2.9% I believe), allow the buyer a few day inspection period, then deliver funds to seller. I did a couple thousand dollar transaction with them last month and had zero issues. I hope more of our community gives them their business.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Yes, and it’s fantastic. Just like using PayPal goods and services. They charge a similar fee(2.9% I believe), allow the buyer a few day inspection period, then deliver funds to seller. I did a couple thousand dollar transaction with them last month and had zero issues. I hope more of our community gives them their business.

Read the terms and conditions carefully as a seller.
You have to be real desperate or really hoping for the best to use their services as a seller.
Especially the part about they want to have access to your bank account and have the ability to drain it, even if they never send you any money.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

Many years ago I was making custom knives and always required payment with a USPS MO to protect my customers and make them feel better about the transaction....the reason I did this was because at one time I paid a Dude with a USPS Money Order for a some antique wrought iron to use in fittings. This was at my request as I did not want to send cash or a personal check. Dude did not send the iron and ignored all attempts to contact him. I went to the local post office and told them what happened and they started a case # with the local Inspector. He contacted me and we filed a complaint against the Dude. In about 30 days he sent the Iron with a huge apology and some stupid story about why he didn't send it after the check was cashed.

Seems the Postal Service contacted him via registered letter and told him that the complain was not resolved in 30 days they were charging him with Mail Fraud/using the USPS to defraud which is a Federal Crime and was punishable by 20 years and up to a million dollars in fines. Scared the shit right out of him as he apparently got a very nasty and official looking Registered Letter. Maybe dun't work this way anymore as this was back in the '80's *but* at one time a USPS MO was serious shit for a buyer and seller due the the potential of being charged with Mail Fraud. YMMV.

VooDoo

 

[Greasly]

^^^ This is my understanding too. Though I've heard you may need to get local l.e. involved first before usps inspection service.

 

[SEMO Shooter]

There was a thread on this site a couple of years ago about payment methods. At that time a USPS money order was deemed the safest.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

USPS *RoCkeD!* at one point ...if they fuck you you have Federal backing and laws to protect you from people who defraud using USPS MO. Might take 10 years to get it expedited (Federal Government) but there are laws against using the USPS to fuck people over. I never liked PayPal - they collect a shitload of money from the seller to get between the buyer and seller and don't like weapons' deals. Why should I pay them to get between me and a buyer/supporter/client?

At some point in the modern idiom we have to find a Way to provide compensation for stuff we buy online. If it's a little person (like mice elf) we might cringe at sending personal CC information via Email or a personal check which *nobody* is cool with...takes 3 minutes to put a stop payment on it.

USPS MO is not golden but in a world of personal debts and paying for shit we want that isn't backed by a Fortune 500 Company it's a whole lot safer than some of the other options. I did a number of sales of custom knives/swords and always requested USPS MO as payment and nobody ever got screwed.
Some folks wanted PayPal - not happening with me. Some folks wanted to write a personal check - not happening. Some folks wanted FTF but they were 1000 miles away. Postal Money Orders are fine and work just great. There is stuff we want to buy and sending CC information or writing a personal check is just fucking dumb in 2021/2022. Postal money order carry more weight and options than a MO from the local grocery store or "whatever" shop.

VooDoo

 

[W54/XM-388]

USPS MO is not golden but in a world of personal debts and paying for shit we want that isn't backed by a Fortune 500 Company it's a whole lot safer than some of the other options. I did a number of sales of custom knives/swords and always requested USPS MO as payment and nobody ever got screwed.
Some folks wanted PayPal - not happening with me. Some folks wanted to write a personal check - not happening. Some folks wanted FTF but they were 1000 miles away. Postal Money Orders are fine and work just great. There is stuff we want to buy and sending CC information or writing a personal check is just fucking dumb in 2021/2022. Postal money order carry more weight and options than a MO from the local grocery store or "whatever" shop.

VooDoo

Not saying anything against postal money orders, just if someone wants me to send one, that's at least an hour out of a workday for me or getting out the door really early on a Saturday. Then you have to pay to mail / ship it.

So the deal has to be something really good or that I really want in order for me to go do that.

Hence why for all the small stuff, I don't usually go that route.

 

[Jscb1b]

Send cash.

 

[BAMCIS]

Every time I send a USPS money order.
It goes priority,,with signature required.

Usually if I ship something,,same thing wether USPS, FedEx, UPS

 

[mosin46]

potential inconvenience is true,but i did manage when i was working despite time issues. still stayed with M.O. did use personal checks back and forth with people i knew for deals 5 yr or more. sending cash might be ok if a trusted trade partner. large amounts of cash would relly need to be insured and that would raise a bunch of red flags.

 

[Raydee38]

I have been told that all online payments using any of the online payment apps totaling over $600 a year will now require a 1099 and you will have to pay taxes on used stuff that you sell after you more than likely already paid tax on it when you bought it new. For that reason alone I am no longer using paypal.

 

[mosin46]

another good reason not to

 

[TACC]

Call him. If he won't take a call then walk away. Most scammers don't want to speak with you and will do everything they can to avoid it. When I sell something expensive I always give the buyer an opportunity to call and ask any questions. That usually puts them at ease.

A USPS MO offers the least amount of protection. About the only thing you can do if you are scammed is to file a complaint with the Postal Inspectors. It will most likely go nowhere unless the guy has scammed many, many people out of thousands of dollars.

Better yet do a video call with him after you have received s copy if his DL.

If its a scam the DL will be fake, and / or he will not match picture on DL.

No scammer ever agrees to a video call.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Better yet do a video call with him after you have received s copy if his DL.

If its a scam the DL will be fake, and / or he will not match picture on DL.

No scammer ever agrees to a video call.

I'd never send my DL to anyone.
Sorry, but not worth the risk of identity theft.

No need to get all complicated about stuff, as I keep telling everyone, just pull up a video chat and chat with folks and call it good.
If you are still paranoid after that, well just pay full price from a local store.

 

[Jeff Bruehl]

None

 

[Jgunner]

I had a scammer: send me his id, send me his utube channel and try to pay with a MO. Oh and he fielded a call. But i had red flags as something was just off. Soon as i called him fishy he disappeared.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Yes, and it’s fantastic. Just like using PayPal goods and services. They charge a similar fee(2.9% I believe), allow the buyer a few day inspection period, then deliver funds to seller. I did a couple thousand dollar transaction with them last month and had zero issues. I hope more of our community gives them their business.

I would much rather do this than PayPal. I use venmo if I can but it's still the same asshats as PayPal, they just don't charge a fee. I don't buy from folks with no feedback though. I've never had a problem and have bought and sold on here quite a bit. If you just use common sense, you are good to go. I have never been offended of someone wants to talk to me, video chat me, or a pic of my DL for that matter, but again, I don't buy from people with no feedback. (If it's some small amount I will loosen up, as that's how guys start getting feedback). I honestly can't think of anything halfway reasonable that I would refuse to do if I'm selling some expensive optic or gun. If they are legit, they won't have a problem and if they do have a problem with video chat or talking, don't do it. Its really that simple. These scammers are organized crime almost always. They aren't going to talk to you and damn sure aren't going to video chat, because you will quickly know they aren't who they say they are.

That said, I would support guntab but for some reason PayPal is popular here. It would be great to change that. I only like venmo because it's where I keep my slush money so the wife can't see how much I spend on gun crap, not that she would ever bitch about it because she wouldn't.

 

[NoDopes]

Send me $100 in a USPS MO and we'll see if you can stop it.

 

[vvayvvard]

Send me $100 in a USPS MO and we'll see if you can stop it.

Any hesitation I'd have in using them would stem from having to cash multiple MOs (e.g. thousands of dollars) that the Post Office probably can't do in a single sitting. I know you're supposed to be able to cash them at the bank, but I feel like if you're depositing them to an account, if they for whatever reason come back as fraudulent after the fact, the bank probably won't hesitate to pull the money out of your account.

 

[NoDopes]

Just use them to buy new ones if the PO doesn't have the cash... New ones can't be revoked.

 

[vvayvvard]

Well, that, I didn't know you could do.

 

[MDof2]

I talked to the seller. All is legit in this case. He's just old school and doesn't deal with PP/Electronic BS.
As it turns out I'm going to go a different direction as well in my purchase so using a MO with him is a null issue at this point.
Thanks all for the input.

 

[UpSideDown]

Well I just paid someone by USPS MO after getting a pic of their DL, and just realized that their DL photo is faked. I couldn't spot it on my phone. Haven't heard from them in a few days and I got suspicious. So what's the recourse? $1,100 over state lines to their mailing address. Contact the USPS OIG? FBI? State Attorney General? County Sheriff?

 

[Animal357]

Well I just paid someone by USPS MO after getting a pic of their DL, and just realized that their DL photo is faked. I couldn't spot it on my phone. Haven't heard from them in a few days and I got suspicious. So what's the recourse? $1,100 over state lines to their mailing address. Contact the USPS OIG? FBI? State Attorney General? County Sheriff?

Contact them all, then kiss it goodbye.