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Range Report What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

S

Strickland

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 1, 2003
378
2
53
Mansfield, Texas
I'm looking to purchase a 223 rifle for some local matches (500 yard and in).

I found a Rem700 SPS Tactical 223 with a 1:9 twist and a 20" barrel.

I've never loaded for 223 before, except mass loading for an AR.

I know I can shoot a 69 gr through a 1:9 easily. What about a 77 grn? I've got 1000 Nosler 77 HPBT that I have been saving to make an accurate load once I found a rifle.

It seems to be hit or miss with 77 grns out of a 1:9.

And then, will a 20" barrel be long enough to get the 77 grn fast enough?

Thanks
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

all i can tell you is my 26" 1:9 would stabalize 77 at 100yards but opened up and keyholed at 300yrds. And 75 amaxs, forget about em. its kind of hit or miss i assume. even if someone can get them to stabalize in theirs dosent mean your project will spin them fast enough. It would hurt to build a whole project centered around something that is unsure.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

if it is a true 1-9 twist it should do it. problem with some of the remingtons is they are not a true 9 twist.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

Well, this is what I am looking at.

Rem 700 SPS Tactical

42069.jpg
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

I think it is a coin flip, <span style="text-decoration: line-through">do you have the 77gr on hand</span>? What about a 75gr Amax?

Edit: sorry just re-read your original post. Why not load up a moderate load with 5 or 6 and shoot them at 100 and 200 and look for keyholes or signs of it not being stable?
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

I've been shooting MK262 Mod 1 (77 gr. SMK) out of my 24" piped (1:9)Bushmaster out to 600 yds. and it does just fine. Black Hills is pushing this pill right along at 2850 which may help. I've heard though that it's hit and miss with the 1:9 barrels and the 77's. I haven't tried the Hornady 75's. Just my experience, for what it's worth.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

69smk shot so well in my 20" sps that I haven't even cracked the lids on the heavier bullets yet.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

I have that rifle. That dadgum Hougue stock feels like holding a stick of cotton candy in your hands, hence i bought a HS PSS SA RH stock to put it in. I just finally got it bedded. I will have to say it looks kind of funny with a forearm that long and such a short barrel.
I also ask ther same question in a post earlier here are some of the results.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...079#Post1390079

You need to find out what the exact twist is. like JCH said it could be 1:9.25, 1:9.5 or 1:9.75, however if it went the opther way towards 8 that would be better.

ymmv.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

Let me put it this way. If you are going to buy a rifle to compete in matches 500 yards and in, you will have to do better than the 77gr SMK if your competition is any good. I never considered the 77SMk to be an extremely accurate bullet, the 80gr SMK is far superior at 300 yards and up and the 69SMK is better than the 77 inside 300 yards.

The claim to fame of the 77gr SMK is that is is the heaviest bullet that can be loaded mag-length and it's not too bad accuracy-wise.

If I were you I would look for a 1:7 to 1:8 twisted rifle, load some 80gr SMK and win all the matches. Keep the 77gr SMK for plinking.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

I shoot the 77's out of a 20" three groove 8 twist Lilja. It is one of the finest shooting guns I have ever had the pleasure of shooting. They are by no means the most slippery, but they are accurate. From 2850 fps they go subsonic a little after 800 yards, but i have no problem hitting at 1K. It shoots so well i won't even consider anything else.

Edited: I understand this is in just my rifle, but you should just shoot what works. I built my gun thinking it would be great to 600, but i always place targets between 500 and 1000 yards, never shorter.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

Guys,
I have a 20" rock 1/9 that shoots the 75grn well. Took it out to 650 yds with texgal. She gave it the nick name "bb gun".
My barrel didn't seem to like the 77grn to much. Tried it one range trip. Maybe retry later to check them out more.

SOTA
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

I'd just save the 77's for the AR. The 69 smk and 70 vlds shine in the factory 9 twist barrels. I haven't gotten the 75 amax to shoot worth a darn (better than .75-1 moa) in a factory 9 twist though guys say it's doable.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

My sps tactical shoots well with 69's, ok with 75-77 bthp's. It was a no go with 75 a-max, 80bthp. Im playing with berger 70 vlds now and they are looking as good as the 69's, good groups and same velocity as 69's with the BC of the 75-77 grain bullets, whats not to like
wink.gif
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

77SMK shoots great out of my SPS TAC.

Velocity is a little low from the 20in though.

Hits on an 8in plate at 600 yds are boringly easy with it.

The load is

77SMK 2.320OAL (in the lands in my chamber)
23.2 Benchmark
Wolf SRM primer
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

tag for later reading.

I am in the same boat. That is have 20' 1:9 twist. Been shooting 69smk's fine. Want to go long range, so I got 77smk and 75bergers. Hope its not a waste of time and money.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

Try some 75 grain match bullets.
My SPS tac loves the Hornady TAP 75 grain load.

I have had some decent sucess with the prvi 75 grain bullets loaded over varget.
They are not as good as the hornady/sierra/speer match bullets, but they work pretty well.

I have great success with the 69 gr MK bullets and the nosler custom competition 69 grainers.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

I struck out with both 75gr A-Max and 77gr SMK in my SPS Tactical.

However through just a couple of trips to the range for initial load development I've found one 68gr Hornady and Two 69gr SMK loads that average just over 1/2MOA.

For just over $550 it isn't a bad way to get into a decent factory barreled action to start working off of.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

I have a 5-R milspec 223 1/9. Its excellent at 200 & 300 yards with the 73 grain Berger, it gets beat up at 600. I need to test the Hornady 75 grain BTHP for beyond 300.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

Strick, I debated this a lot and ended up just building up a rifle from scratch in 223. Brownell's M700 action, Krieger A1/A3 stock, Krieger 7 twist Remington Varmint contour. I shoot the AR so much with 7, 7.7, and 8 twist barrels I just did not want to abandon all the work I've done with the heavier bullets. Yes in the 9 twist you can probably run Hornady 75 BTHPs (2279 bullet) and the 75 AMAX, but I did not want to be restricted to them AND also have to run separate brass in that the stock Remmy headspace was going to be long compared to all my match rifles. My 223 sports a Wylde chamber cut to the same headspace as my match ARs and SPR.

The factory rifles are tempting, but for me the extra $$ to build the custom tubed rifled makes a lot of sense.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the .223 SPS comes with a 1 in 12 twist, not a 1-9.


Lee.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

That would be the SPS Varmint, although there were a few SPS Tacticals that ended up coming out that way. Standard twist for the SPS Tactical is 1:9.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

I ended up buying the 223 PSS from WickedFish that was for sale here on the hide. It came with a mount / threaded barrel / bipod. It only has a 1:9 twist, but I was looking mainly for something to get started in the 223 only matches. i have at least a Rem700 action to build from for down the road plus the HS Precision stock. So I've got a good base.

Keep in mind, these matches I am looking at are not high dollar prize give a way matches. The ones I am going to are mainly more for practice. You keep your own score. It's more like a bunch of buddies playing golf. So I figure the 69's will at least be good wind reading practice. I'll try the Nosler 77's I have just for poops & giggles to see if the tube likes them. If not, I'll pony up and pick up a box of 500 Sierra 69's and run what I brung.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

Just had my SPS tactical out to try the 75gr AMAXs and it was a no go as well. 1:9 twists just don;t cut it for them while the 75gr BTHPs do just fine. I'm planning on using them for the 1k line sometime soon. Heard somewhere that the AMAXs in 9 twist pipes had to be pushed at like 2900+ to stabilize em. RL-15 looks like it just barely gets em to that at max. Hmmm...
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

I started out with 2 boxes of bullets for my SPS Tactical. 69mk and the 75a-max. The 69mk stared out shooting 1/2 to 3/4 minute, the 75a-max was 5 to 6 inches. I put the rifle in a McMillan, bedded it, and installed a good trigger, and now It's shooting the 69ers into very tiny bugholes. I really wanted to shoot the a-max in this rifle, but I'm just going to burn the barrel out with the Matchkings then get a 7 or 8 twist in .223AI.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">75 Amax's in an 8 twist. </div></div>

IMG_1293.jpg
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

Does anyone have a SPS Tactical that will shoot the 75-Amax? If so, what's your load? I've tried Varget, 8208xbr, in the lands, out of the lands, etc, etc,,,
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

As the Nosler is a copy of the SMK (Nosler had the MK262 Mod 1 contract for a while as Sierra refused to cannelure the 77 SMK but has since changed their mind and won it back), I would seriously doubt the Nosler buys you anything in the 9 twist over the SMK.

Hornady redesigned the 2279 bullet in 2003 to make it perform better in the 9 twist. Those will be your best bet in a mag length bullet in a 9 twist.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

Les I'm thinking about buying a WOA upper and a nice trigger for one of my AR's, now that new mangement has taken over out there I'm thinking of returning and trying a little Service Rifle.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">75 Amax's in an 8 twist. </div></div>

IMG_1293.jpg
</div></div>

Where'd you find AMAXs for a 9" twist?? My box says 8"?!
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jdberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone have a SPS Tactical that will shoot the 75-Amax? If so, what's your load? I've tried Varget, 8208xbr, in the lands, out of the lands, etc, etc,,, </div></div>

I'd also like to know what velocities you guys are getting from the BTHPs with Varget. I don't have a chrono so I'm guestimating for now. I use 24.7 gr , CCI 400 SR and PPU 1x fired brass seated to 2.260" OAL and see no pressure signs.

Thanks!
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

Try some 62gr surplus fmj bullets. They should be fine for 100-300yds. Something in the mid 60 grain range for the 500yd line.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

The Perforator - what is the lot number on your box of AMAX 75s? The ones in the pic are from 2004. If Hornady made a change to their marking of the box I want to know so I can stop posting this pic in every 9 twist 223 thread that comes up
wink.gif
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Perforator - what is the lot number on your box of AMAX 75s? The ones in the pic are from 2004. If Hornady made a change to their marking of the box I want to know so I can stop posting this pic in every 9 twist 223 thread that comes up
wink.gif
</div></div>
photo-1.jpg


photo-2.jpg


Lot # 2090428
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

Mfg 4/28/2009 - I will quit posting my pic for 9 twist, other than a point of history. Thanks for putting that up.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mfg 4/28/2009 - I will quit posting my pic for 9 twist, other than a point of history. Thanks for putting that up. </div></div>

I'll take em off your hands if you would like to trade for the ones i have. I shot like 21 of em.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

Were are good thanks - I don't have any 9 twist barrels on rifles I'd shoot non-mag length bullets out of.

My guess is Hornady did not change the bullet - just the label on the box - due to too many complaints about performance issues with the AMAX 75 in the 9 twist. I'll see if I can verify that.
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Were are good thanks - I don't have any 9 twist barrels on rifles I'd shoot non-mag length bullets out of.

My guess is Hornady did not change the bullet - just the label on the box - due to too many complaints about performance issues with the AMAX 75 in the 9 twist. I'll see if I can verify that. </div></div>

Yeah, just a box change. The 50 gr Vmax and 68 gr BTHP have switched over to the new prettier box. The #22792 for the 75 gr Amax stayed the same...

***What Berger bullets are those with the .447 BC???
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">75 VLD, old (pre-Litz) label. </div></div>

So...were they wrong and is Hornady 75 Amax better/worse BC?
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

Hmm, maybe I should give VLD's a try...what's the price difference?

*75 VLD = $27.49 per 100
75 Amax = $17.79 per 100

Yeah, I think I'll stick with Hornady...
 
Re: What to think of a 223 in a 20" 1:9 Twist

Depending how much you shoot... considerable. If you want to try some out, I'll send you some. pm me your addy. The amaxs have shot better for me in the past. The 70vld however beat them both for accuracy in all my factory tubes.
 
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